Right to Secede?

RaidrX said:
I bet he would win if he ran in Texas. Shit look at Arnie and he didnt have a huge internet meme following him.
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*clears throat*

Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paulronpaulronpaulronpaulronpaulronpaulronpaulronpaul.

You were saying?
 
If a state did secede, then the U.S gov't would just invade and take it over, integrating them back into the U.S. No way they would allow a "foreign" country in the midst of all the other states.
 
This thread almost makes we wish we did secede just to see what would happen..
 
Anglis said:
If a state did secede, then the U.S gov't would just invade and take it over, integrating them back into the U.S. No way they would allow a "foreign" country in the midst of all the other states.
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We already do. It's called Canada, and it separates most states from Alaska.
 
If any single state had a shot at being a viable nation in and of itself, I think Texas or Alaska would be it.

Their oil resources would be a nice nest egg to start with until they could develop their other industries (ranching and agriculture) to the point where they could be economically independent of the US.

Texas' position on the Mexican border as well as their control of the beginning of the I-35 corridor gives them the ability to tax goods coming through their territory. The port of Houston is also a huge source of revenue.

Texas is a tax donor state, meaning it gives more to the federal government than it receives. So, while Texas would have to raise it's own taxes in order to meet its current budget, the individual tax burden on the people living in Texas would not change. Unlike Louisiana, an independent Texas could pay for itself.

In terms of being able to defend itself, Texas would automatically assume control over seven Air Force bases, seven Army bases, three Navy bases, and a Coast Guard base. I'm sure the US would withdraw its forces, but it can't move those installations. I don't know what the US military would do with respect to its Texas members, but the Texas National Guard (Air Force and Army components) would all fall under the control of the new country. I don't have an exact number, but I know the Texas Guard is HUGE.

It couldn't stand up to the rest of the US, but it would be big enough such that your average US politician would think twice about invading.

I obviously do not want to see the US divided, but I would find it absolutely hilarious if Texas did secede and even more so if they succeeded as a nation.
 
Zoolander said:
I'm not using Technology to ignore history. This is one of the first times in history that war is so ridiculously expensive to the point where its almost obsolete just because of its price tag. If the US empire and the price of war were to decline then yes, I would agree that Texas or any other state could possibly fight a successful revolution.

And I really hate it when people compare Ancient Rome to the Modern U.S. Sure there are some similarities, but they are greatly outweighed by the differences. The Roman empire was a traditional land empire, the U.S. empire is not one made up of conquered peoples and vast lands but one of cultural and financial influence. Rome was also not a republic when it fell and the only really successful Emperor that also killed the Republic was Augustus and not long after the whole thing went to shit. The U.S has quite a bit of falling to do, including the loss of democracy before you can start comparing us to Rome.

At this point in time the US empire has not fallen, so I don't see any window of opportunity for a state, especially one like Texas, to be able to withstand the US army should we use it against some revolutionaries. Please don't spout about how the US empire is falling either. I don't wanna hear how "lulz, China is the best now guys!" which is nothing short of ridiculous. Their GDP per capita is pathetic and they manufacture a lot of garbage that is poorly made and worthless if rich nations don't spend their money on it. They have around 6 times our population and still struggle to even pass our GDP. The US is still the king, this global recession has only proved that point. I'm sure some day that will change, but not yet.
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Was war ever cheap… Land owners used to have fields and fields of serfs toiling away to make enough food that the land owner could buy armor and go to battle to protect his property… its not like bronze was cheap back then.

The truth is that war to a lesser extent is in my opinion more feasible for the common man.

http://www.keepshooting.com/firearms/rifles/ak47.htmSemi auto Ak-47 = 486 dollars
http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product1088.html 500 rounds of ammo = 190 dollars
http://www.dangerproof.com/full-pro...7.html?zenid=f720a6433a6dc9ce41b7199e24facbb0 Decent body armor… 560

So.. for 1236 dollars… and some taxes or basically one pay check anyone can be armed enough to scare off most who are not in a tank. If you are attacked by a tank then you are fucked… but infantry still settle disputes in modern warfare.

Well there is a very interesting argument about stability of governments that was put out by JBS and I actually think that it is a very accurate description of governments.





Now the reason that I believe that this is important is that we are moving away from a republic and by disregarding the constitution we have become a democracy.

Celvantes said:
If any single state had a shot at being a viable nation in and of itself, I think Texas or Alaska would be it.

Their oil resources would be a nice nest egg to start with until they could develop their other industries (ranching and agriculture) to the point where they could be economically independent of the US.

Texas' position on the Mexican border as well as their control of the beginning of the I-35 corridor gives them the ability to tax goods coming through their territory. The port of Houston is also a huge source of revenue.

Texas is a tax donor state, meaning it gives more to the federal government than it receives. So, while Texas would have to raise it's own taxes in order to meet its current budget, the individual tax burden on the people living in Texas would not change. Unlike Louisiana, an independent Texas could pay for itself.

In terms of being able to defend itself, Texas would automatically assume control over seven Air Force bases, seven Army bases, three Navy bases, and a Coast Guard base. I'm sure the US would withdraw its forces, but it can't move those installations. I don't know what the US military would do with respect to its Texas members, but the Texas National Guard (Air Force and Army components) would all fall under the control of the new country. I don't have an exact number, but I know the Texas Guard is HUGE.

It couldn't stand up to the rest of the US, but it would be big enough such that your average US politician would think twice about invading.

I obviously do not want to see the US divided, but I would find it absolutely hilarious if Texas did secede and even more so if they succeeded as a nation.
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I think you made perhaps the best point that has been made in this thread with the bolded comment.

Interesting video posted on this subject on youtube today.


It is too bad that the states cannot decide on their own which federal programs they wished to be involved in… Texas doesn’t want Medicare… that’s fine they don’t have to pay for it but they wont get it either, same with social security. National Security on the other hand everyone would have to pay for but there should be much stronger enforcing of the constraints already put on government to go to war without a declaration of war and aggression.
 
I've heard some people here in South Carolina talk about this recently and I really think that the current population of SC would be to lazy to actually do anything. I think that every state has the right to secede but it would cause more problems than solutions. I can't speak for any other state but I know that SC would not be able to sustain itself. We have a good amount of resources but our leadership down here is lacking at best. The state is in turmoil right now over Sanford not wanting to take the money from Obama right now anyway. Then a lot of people are worried about Obama taking their guns so everyone is rushing to the stores to buy all of the ammo that they can. Our state has one of the highest rates of unemployment and our education scores are always near the bottom. I really doubt that we could do it on our own. Considering that Obama was only a couple of thousand of votes away from winning our state, I really think that trying to secede would just tear the state apart. I think that the only way that any state would be able to secede would be if the US government let them. I doubt any would be able to withstand a military attack against them.

Personally this kind of talk sickens me because it just goes back to what is so wrong with politics. Every one is so worried about what is good for their political party and not what is good for the whole country. I don't think that someone should blindly agree with everything that their president says but offer a better compromise inside of acting like little children. I've seen both major political parties do it so I'm not singling one out.
 
Skaw said:
We already do. It's called Canada, and it separates most states from Alaska.
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Still think it's different since the Texas is in the heart of the U.S. Look what happened when states seceded in the past. If anyone thinks the U.S would allow it, you're not thinking clearly. Legally, it could happen. Then when it happened, the U.S army would overthrow the "president" of Texas and it would be over with.


Also, Alaska was purchased from the Russians, who did it because they knew the U.S would take it eventually anyway, so they figured they might as well make something off it instead of losing it. It's not like we had Alaska, then Canada formed years later. Also, Alaska doesn't even have 1 milllion citizens. Texas on the other hand has over 25 million.
 
Texas is hardly the heart of the United States. Really, no single state regardless of size or population is. Secession in the past was a problem because of the scale of it, not because Texas was a part of it. 25 million citizens isn't an argument. How many of those 25 million are willing to stick around in Texas if it seceded? Most of them would abandon their state I'd wager.
 
All roads lead to failure one way or another.
 
Skaw said:
Most of them would abandon their state I'd wager.
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If I had never moved here I'd agree. Havin' lived here as long as I have now, I'd imagine if it came down to it, you'd loose that wager and not by a tiny number at that.

Texas is, for a lack of a better word, unique.
 
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Hey, at least they have a pledge already in place:

"Honor the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas one and indivisible."

Damn, I still remember that almost 9 years later...
 
Strid said:
If I had never moved here I'd agree. Havin' lived here as long as I have now, I'd imagine if it came down to it, you'd loose that wager and not by a tiny number at that.

Texas is, for a lack of a better word, unique.
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It's easy to say that without thinking about the things that stem from change. Texas would change drastically. America, not so much. Everything that applies to the federal level in America will be invalid until reprocessed through Texas as country, if it's even applicable. Social Security, for example, will all but be long gone for a post secession Texan. It's a failing system, sure, but one people still utilize. Texas would have to go through and approve or decline drugs that are Federally approved that someone may depend on. Everything that makes Texas unique might have to be given up to make sure Texas works.
 
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Celvantes said:
Hey, at least they have a pledge already in place:

"Honor the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas one and indivisible."

Damn, I still remember that almost 9 years later...
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Ten more seconds wasted on top of the US Pledge and the "moment of silence" that could've been spent learning.
God, I hate public school.
 
Xalioniaf said:
Ten more seconds wasted on top of the US Pledge and the "moment of silence" that could've been spent learning.
God, I hate public school.
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I went to a private school that said the pledge, the state pledge, and the school pledge... we also had a 99% graduation rate and a 90% college acceptance rate.

Sometimes the values reinforced by an oath are more important than a few more seconds of a teacher's droning.
 
If Texas did leave, what would happen to people from Texas who are currently in the US military?
 
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