Rude for no reason

[GhostinmyShell]

How the hell am I supposed to know what LS the guy is in, is it my responsibility to keep up with whos in what LS? Its certainly not in his original post. So I just assumed like always it was the lame LS problem which it usually is...

To be honest I really dont what you think or how i throw the gramps attitude around, your the lv 50 under crowd and Im the more experienced player in this case and I'm telling you like it is.

This is another reason High Lvls hate helping lowers out, they get told stuff and get all apprehensive and shit. Like OMGWTFBBQ that snobby high lvl told me to not do X or Y, fuck him in the ass!

Lets look at the usual pattern of genkei 1:

Player 1: Ah man this sucks no one helps me
Player 2: Yeah no shit this sucks
Player 1: Man when we get to be high lvls lets help everyone out!
Player 2: Yeah!

About 15 lvls later:

Random player: Hi could you help me out with g1?
Player 1: No im busy
Player 2: hahahah n00bz

Now here comes the "but i wont be like that," sure, I heard that one a lot too and I would say 3 out of 10 actually do help out others when they get that high.

So anyway let me get into a side rant about this weekend about genkei 1...

I was helping someone get their papyrus... (oh shi im a high and mighty high lvl i shouldnt be doing this!), so we hit Eld via Bea Glacier and go down and take a spot in the tunnel, there was another pt there. So we start killing liches and get attitude from these guys, because were killing them at a faster rate. They cant keep up cause they only have a RDM to heal. So its more and more smug comments while we kill lichs faster then them.

 

[GhostinmyShell]

Also let me point out I know Vil and Jaz, and they are 2 of the nicest ppl in the game and their views are along my line of thought when I get that random /tell. So if they get called out like this i'll be happy to back them up.

Let me also describe another scenario real quick for fun which is usually how it is....

Player 1: Thx for helping me get my AF item.
Highlvl: Cool cool lets go do it
Player 1: Um, im not sure what to do, who do i go see?

30 mins later...

Highlvl2: Hey Highlvl wanna go camp HNM1 for $$$.
Highlvl: Nah man helping out this nice random guy
Player1: Ok coolbeans I got the quest started we need more help though!
Highlvl: Oh that I could solo it
Player1: You sure I mean lets be safe and get more ppl

2 hrs later...

Highlvl: Um can this hurry up?
Highlvl2: Dood you missed out on a 2 mil drop!
Player1: Ok lets just go then
Highlvl: Ok Ill get my WHM friend to tele us to Vahzl
Player1: What wheres that?
Highlvl: You dont have tele-Vahzl?
Player1: Nope...
Highlvl: Sigh lets go...

1 hr later...

Highlvl: So theres the ??? make the NM spawn so lets hurry, I need to heal
Player1: *pokes ???* anyway
Player1: wtf!
Highlvl: dont touch it idiot!
Player1: WTF I touched it and nothing happened!!!!
Player1: OMG I forgot to bring the item in my mog house... ; ;
Highlvl: ...
Player1: Why is that train of demons coming near us...

That maybe a tad extreme but im sure my peers can relate to what it b[usually]b means when we take in random help. Then multiply this by 20 or so times we usually encounter it, even ppl like me with infinite patience lose it(I spent a week helping my LS mate get his mold when I was already done so dont tell me i dont have any )

I'm sorry but were not in the process of doing a background check to see what LS your in, blood type and other features your reputation might have if we dont know you. Your best bet is saying...

"Oh hay do you know X, he said you might help me out when your free?"

 

[boseaphus]

hey hammy....if ya still need genkai lemmie know...im sure i can die a few times for the cause
I need to do it as well.

 

[GhostinmyShell]

Another thing...

I'm glad boseaphus posted because this brings up another annoying thing I see when i get involved with genkei/AF pts...

Player: Thank you all for coming to help you
Player3: Hay guys i need the item too but im offering my help
Player: WTF get lost we dont need you its mine mine mine!
Player2: But wait Player I need it too

I'm not sure what my peers do in this situation but I would usually let the other guy into the group and just maybe set a time limit of 30 mins, because I really really dont have all day for these things.

 

[ThisIsHamburgler]

Another thing...

I'm glad boseaphus posted because this brings up another annoying thing I see when i get involved with genkei/AF pts...

Player: Thank you all for coming to help you
Player3: Hay guys i need the item too but im offering my help
Player: WTF get lost we dont need you its mine mine mine!
Player2: But wait Player I need it too

I'm not sure what my peers do in this situation but I would usually let the other guy into the group and just maybe set a time limit of 30 mins, because I really really dont have all day for these things.

Sounds like you've had some bad experiences with quests Ghost... my sympathies, but I've been in a pt where people got the drop and ditched too and this doesnt make distrust everyone, I am just extra careful now when organizing item hunt parties.

I don't know if you were implying that I'm a selfish bastard or anything, but it certainly isnt the case :twisted: umm I mean I don't know who you were referring to either, but it did make me laugh at least cuz I know there are players like that.

-Ham :shock:

 

[Dalecooper]

Does anybody else feel that, given the accuracy of most of these statements (and the do seem spot on) its more trouble than its worth to go past lvl 50? I'm almost there myself, prolly hit it in a few days, and if I don't have a static set up by then I doubt I'll even bother. Regardless of who's right or wrong, rude or polite, it seems VERY hard to find decent help. It seems just a pain in the ass, and not a lot of fun.

 

[Kat]

Congrats on getting stuff done when it was more difficult! But times have changed...

Yes, times have changed.. but it seems that people have become super lazy . I can see where Villarel comes from because majority of the time (Speaking from experience) I get tells from people, I dont know. They would ask for help and didn't even fulfil the prerequisites or expect me to solo the NM for them without aid from at least a party. What bothers me is that once everything is over and done with, we are just tossed aside(Obvious exaggeration) without any offer of compensation for our time. (I normally don't accept any compensation but times are rough and damn.. Adaman armor is freaking expensive..lol)

The current trend as I see it is this: LowB levels (joins an LS > subjob > chocobo lic > advanced job) all the way to quasi HL status(50ish.. meleers..yeah you know you look good in Iron Musketeer gear, lol). TIME FOR AF! LowB realizes the pain in organizing parties for stupid coffer keys as well as other quests required of AF. LowB also realizes the difficulty in requesting uber HL help - they keep saying (I don't understand English). On top of AF, LowB also has to worry about Genkai items and leveling subs(playing with newbs.. ewww) - and gets very frustrated as well. LowB vows that once s/he gets to that status of official HL (60-69 in my book), s/he will help everyone who needs help so NOT to be like the stingy uber HL's that treated him/her so. LowB gets full AF, completes Genkai 1-3.. /cheer!!! But also realizes that a lot of his/her friends have quit due to the frustration of AF/Genkai . LowB helps out other lowerlevels (Linkshell members and perfect strangers) like a madperson.. and becomes very popular :wink:. LowB tries to relax now to enjoy other aspects of the world, but continuously gets requests for help(LS and outside) ...I guess LowB became more popular than s/he thought. LowB completes Genkai4(what a joke btw) and then later defeats Maat in record time!! /hurray BUT during this time still continues to get /tells and LS requests from strangers on a frequent basis. LowB starts realizing how rude a lot of the requestors are :? :? . LowB becomes more involved in Zilart Missions and HNM fights but still gets help requests from the newest crop of quasi HL strangers. LowB has bad experiences with assisting (More good than bad but for some reason, the bad seems to stick out more at this time) and decides to limit help to LS members/friends. Stranger requests help from LowB but gets (I'm sorry)(I don't understand English) response back. :shock: :shock: :shock:

I'll be honest, I base a lot of what I wrote on my experiences but also from a lot of experiences from my friends in game. I've never said I dont understand english but have gotten close a couple times. Rule of thumb for me is that, if the requestor is extremely polite (NO BROWN NOSING PLEASE... ok a tiny bit is ok) and I have free time, then sure I will help no problem. I've also made it a habit to refer strangers to www.qcdn.org > Event Scheduling for any future help they may need

I love this ... perfect account Jazper ... really really hits the spot ... I also try to help as much as possible ...

Just an example of my last week ... Dark Spark 3 times, Genkai III 2 times (died 8 times trying to raise other members who ran in and didn't think about their sneak was wore off in Bedeaux ... 'nuff said on that) ... helping my friends with their AF a minimum of 6 times ... and last but not least helping some level 50's get their Ancient Papryus (4 drops mind you in one party which we pulled off in a record 2.5 hours thanks to a wonderful lvl 64 thf) 1 time ... and that my friends was just from Thursday - Sunday :wink: ...

 

[yanzi]

I love this ... perfect account Jazper ... really really hits the spot ... I also try to help as much as possible ...

Just an example of my last week ... Dark Spark 3 times, Genkai III 2 times (died 8 times trying to raise other members who ran in and didn't think about their sneak was wore off in Bedeaux ... 'nuff said on that) ... helping my friends with their AF a minimum of 6 times ... and last but not least helping some level 50's get their Ancient Papryus (4 drops mind you in one party which we pulled off in a record 2.5 hours thanks to a wonderful lvl 64 thf) 1 time ... and that my friends was just from Thursday - Sunday :wink: ...

you're my hero.
you're one very rare kat.

 

[Farys]

Yeah another topic that has gone wild just because some of you can't read.

I'm trying to make it simplier for those who didn't understand Ham's point. Lets place ourselves in a RL situation : you're a tourist in a foreign country where I live. You come to me and ask "could you help me? I need to find my hotel/stuff/metro station." (I'm telling you this because I live in Paris and got this asked a LOT of times).
What are my choices?

- "Sorry I do not have time"
- "I don't speak your language"
- "Oh ok, follow me"

But not in the least: "Do I know you?" :shock:

And Ghost, making assumptions is a BAD thing. Maybe some day you'll understand that.

 

[Villarel]

Yeah another topic that has gone wild just because some of you can't read.

I'm trying to make it simplier for those who didn't understand Ham's point. Lets place ourselves in a RL situation : you're a tourist in a foreign country where I live. You come to me and ask "could you help me? I need to find my hotel/stuff/metro station." (I'm telling you this because I live in Paris and got this asked a LOT of times).
What are my choices?

- "Sorry I do not have time"
- "I don't speak your language"
- "Oh ok, follow me"

But not in the least: "Do I know you?" :shock:
quote]

Your analogy is way off. Here is a better one.

Someone is digging in his front yard for their lost diamond ring. He spots a stranger and ask him. "Hey can you please help me find my diamond ring?" The stranger looks at his the requestor front yard and notice that its full of rabid vermin. And btw stranger, you have to provide you own tools to help me. And you have to kill all these vermins, because I think one of them swallowed my ring.

Stranger says "I don't know you".

Genkai 1 item is not some leisurely tourist destnation.

 

[Farys]

I musst give you a doazands millions points for this speachful analogy of yours, since it happens to me all the time!
You see, I live way far from the city near a rich and stupid ol'man who's also very forgetful...

That was blatant irony.

When asked politely about some help, you don't have a thousands answers if you want to response in the same way :
- sorry no
- ok
Now if you still do not understand proper manners, I won't try any longer to teach you those as I'm not your tutor nor your parents (and I'm sure you must feel all warm inside for that).

That being written, we can all go along with our lives (real or virtual) with no offense taken.

Cya in game *wave*

 

[yanzi]

Does anybody else feel that, given the accuracy of most of these statements (and the do seem spot on) its more trouble than its worth to go past lvl 50? I'm almost there myself, prolly hit it in a few days, and if I don't have a static set up by then I doubt I'll even bother. Regardless of who's right or wrong, rude or polite, it seems VERY hard to find decent help. It seems just a pain in the ass, and not a lot of fun.

just... stop all your jobs at 50 and you won't have to worry about genkai or AFs. once you get them all to 50, sell your account for a thousand bucks. :twisted:

 

[yanzi]

Yeah another topic that has gone wild just because some of you can't read.

I'm trying to make it simplier for those who didn't understand Ham's point. Lets place ourselves in a RL situation : you're a tourist in a foreign country where I live. You come to me and ask "could you help me? I need to find my hotel/stuff/metro station." (I'm telling you this because I live in Paris and got this asked a LOT of times).
What are my choices?

- "Sorry I do not have time"
- "I don't speak your language"
- "Oh ok, follow me"

But not in the least: "Do I know you?" :shock:
quote]

Your analogy is way off. Here is a better one.

Someone is digging in his front yard for their lost diamond ring. He spots a stranger and ask him. "Hey can you please help me find my diamond ring?" The stranger looks at his the requestor front yard and notice that its full of rabid vermin. And btw stranger, you have to provide you own tools to help me. And you have to kill all these vermins, because I think one of them swallowed my ring.

Stranger says "I don't know you".

Genkai 1 item is not some leisurely tourist destnation.

not to imply anything... you could have played blm and still outtanked their tank.

 

[ThisIsHamburgler]

Your analogy is way off. Here is a better one.

Someone is digging in his front yard for their lost diamond ring. He spots a stranger and ask him. "Hey can you please help me find my diamond ring?" The stranger looks at his the requestor front yard and notice that its full of rabid vermin. And btw stranger, you have to provide you own tools to help me. And you have to kill all these vermins, because I think one of them swallowed my ring.

Stranger says "I don't know you".

Genkai 1 item is not some leisurely tourist destnation.

/sigh... Again, I'm not taking issue with the fact that someone turned me down for help, you were completely right in doing so because you chose how you want to play the game. The only thing I am taking issue with was the type of response I got after asking as politely as I could.

It's true that your response may not have been intended to be rude, but by the same token there's no way you can make me believe that you intended to be very nice about it either. All I'm saying is that if someone at least asks you nicely for some help and you dont want to, be just as nice to them as they were to you.

As for the "you have to kill everything by yourself and drop a load of money while doing so" statement, this is something you assumed simply because I had asked you for help. When I asked you for help I mentioned the fact that it was with friends; I don't think anyone would expect you to solo exorays at lvl 57 :shock: And if the money issue was a problem you could have brought it up saying, "It takes a lot of money for a ninja to tank and thats why I really dont want to go" to which I would have explained to you that we were only looking for another damage dealer because we already had a tank (he was lvl 50 so dont go bashing me about how I didnt need another high lvl :wink: )

The fact remains that your only responce was "I dont know you." Even after I had sent another tell saying that no, I didnt know you, which was why I was asking nicely, I never got another tell from you. Any one of your arguments as to why you didnt help me and didnt want to is completely valid, again genkai sucks and you dont owe strangers anything, but when someone takes the time to be as nice as possible when asking for something, the least you can do is add a simple I'm sorry to your reason.

And let me just say that both analogies are a little off. I was simply asking someone who had been through the same situation for their help in order to give my party a little extra bit of efficiency; nothing more. When someone asks you for help they probably assume you know what your doing, in other words they look up to you. And remember that there are people willing to do their fare share, heck Vill, after I talked to you my group said screw it and we fought exorays by ourselves untill we all got our molds, it was just a little slower than with a 6th person.

And anyways, I'm not bitter or anything about his refusal to help me, or the manner in which he told me no, I'm just glad I got my side of the story out, and I'm also glad to hear his (I definatly agree that Genkai 1 is hell and they it should be avoided whenever possible) All I'd like is people to act with the same respect toward me that I show to them, thats all this was really about.

-Ham :shock:

 

[j]

Hamburgler u keep saying add "I'm sorry" before the reply... What exactly do you want villarel to be sorry for... not knowing you? Its not like you introduced yourself.... If you go out of ur comfort zone and ask another complete stranger for help, oh for help politely.. do you actually expect that person to appologize for not knowing who you are.. let alone to show you that same curtoesy, do we live in a society that perfect to expect that? To me for a total stranger to ask me to invest 3 to 4 hours of my life to be a good samaritan is asking a bit much, and if i reply with a simple yet to the point statement of "Do i know you or your friends" I don't expect any blacklash.. I mean who here feels that statement is unwarrented when a total stranger asks you to invest your time for thier endevours? I mean.. You have never met this person and your asking her to invest hours of time... Do i have to really be applogetic to all the random tells i get asking/demanding help? I'm not going to appologize for not knowing you, just like i wouldn't expect an appology from a total stranger if i asked them to help. You show curtoesy in asking for help? good job.. good for you but YOUR the one who is in need of assistance, YOUR the one who's asking the total stranger to invest thier evening into YOUR endevours.. Damn right you should be polite in asking, but there is zero reason to expect that same curtoesy back. If there is a situation in which i need help, like my midterms next week and i approach a stranger from the class askign for help.. i dont expect that person to applogize to me for not knowing who i am, theres nothing to applogize for.

 

[yanzi]

Hamburgler u keep saying add "I'm sorry" before the reply... What exactly do you want villarel to be sorry for... not knowing you? Its not like you introduced yourself.... If you go out of ur comfort zone and ask another complete stranger for help, oh for help politely.. do you actually expect that person to appologize for not knowing who you are.. let alone to show you that same curtoesy, do we live in a society that perfect to expect that? To me for a total stranger to ask me to invest 3 to 4 hours of my life to be a good samaritan is asking a bit much, and if i reply with a simple yet to the point statement of "Do i know you or your friends" I don't expect any blacklash.. I mean who here feels that statement is unwarrented when a total stranger asks you to invest your time for thier endevours? I mean.. You have never met this person and your asking her to invest hours of time... Do i have to really be applogetic to all the random tells i get asking/demanding help? I'm not going to appologize for not knowing you, just like i wouldn't expect an appology from a total stranger if i asked them to help. You show curtoesy in asking for help? good job.. good for you but YOUR the one who is in need of assistance, YOUR the one who's asking the total stranger to invest thier evening into YOUR endevours.. Damn right you should be polite in asking, but there is zero reason to expect that same curtoesy back. If there is a situation in which i need help, like my midterms next week and i approach a stranger from the class askign for help.. i dont expect that person to applogize to me for not knowing who i am, theres nothing to applogize for.

again, a very hypocritical view from high level players. if you have midterms, and you ask a stranger in your class for help, you expect him to say "do i know you" then not help you? your classmate has no incentive to waste his time.
like i said before, it's easy for high levels to look down and/or ignore the less fortunate mid-lower levels. but helping people out, even a stranger is just a part of being kind. i would even venture to say a lot of ppl meet and become friends from helping strangers out in this game.

 

[Villarel]

like i said before, it's easy for high levels to look down and/or ignore the less fortunate mid-lower levels. but helping people out, even a stranger is just a part of being kind. i would even venture to say a lot of ppl meet and become friends from helping strangers out in this game.

I never said I don't go help out lower/mid level players out. I said that with all the request for help, I have to pick and choose those I help. People I know or have PT with before gets more consideration than people who send random /tell.

Yesterday I helped 3 mid level people get avatars (you were one of them Yanzi), and 1 person with AF3. How am I hyprocritical?

 

[Runekane]

Because you're an ELF! Too low INT to figure out what Yanzi's trying to say! You can't help yourself, it's okay ^^


(Just kidding, of course)

Porkchop Sandwiches! :twisted:

 

[ThisIsHamburgler]

Hamburgler u keep saying add "I'm sorry" before the reply... What exactly do you want villarel to be sorry for... not knowing you? Its not like you introduced yourself.... If you go out of ur comfort zone and ask another complete stranger for help, oh for help politely.. do you actually expect that person to appologize for not knowing who you are.. let alone to show you that same curtoesy, do we live in a society that perfect to expect that? To me for a total stranger to ask me to invest 3 to 4 hours of my life to be a good samaritan is asking a bit much, and if i reply with a simple yet to the point statement of "Do i know you or your friends" I don't expect any blacklash.. I mean who here feels that statement is unwarrented when a total stranger asks you to invest your time for thier endevours? I mean.. You have never met this person and your asking her to invest hours of time... Do i have to really be applogetic to all the random tells i get asking/demanding help? I'm not going to appologize for not knowing you, just like i wouldn't expect an appology from a total stranger if i asked them to help. You show curtoesy in asking for help? good job.. good for you but YOUR the one who is in need of assistance, YOUR the one who's asking the total stranger to invest thier evening into YOUR endevours.. Damn right you should be polite in asking, but there is zero reason to expect that same curtoesy back. If there is a situation in which i need help, like my midterms next week and i approach a stranger from the class askign for help.. i dont expect that person to applogize to me for not knowing who i am, theres nothing to applogize for.

This has got to be the most arrogant response ever... "Low lever have to show respect to US the high levels, we've played the game longer, we deserve it, I'll be damned if I show a low level any respect, they have to earn it!" And its not about appologizing for not knowing who I am, its about saying you care enough to get along with a player you dont even know.

It's called common courtesy... its a big part of this game. I find it is most often the higher levels who are the ones who complain about how noobs are so rude and dont respect higher levels, yet I get this kind of response. I'm sick of this issue becuase every time I try and say that this issue is NOT a personal slam on Vill at all someone else comes and tells me I'm being a jerk for expecting people to be nice to me. I'm almost certain that if this post had been about how some new, low level player had responded in a rude way to me all you high levels would have the exact same response "How dare they act so rude to you after you were so nice to them! Shame on them for acting like that!" It doesnt matter who the person is or what the situation was, there is NO reason not to treat someone with a little respect.

And please dont start debating the exact meaning of I'm sorry... Its like walking by a drycleaner at 3am and seeing the sorry we're closed sign, its rediculous for you to expect them to be open at that time, all its saying is that they arent saying "go away" because they want people to have a good impression of them. Again it is COMMON COURTESY and some higher levels seem to think its a one-way street, it isnt.

As for the society not being that perfect, you are absolutly right, but again dont we all strive to better ourselves? Dont we want people to have a good impression of us? If the fact that you dont know someone is the only reason for not helping someone on a midterm thats perfectly acceptable, but if you say "I dont know you" and walk away you have just snubbed that person, its like after you say that youve just added "and I dont want to." thats what courtesy is all about.

Anyway I'm sick of trying to explain why people ought to follow the golden rule in a game built around teamwork of all things. The next time someone says something or does something you think is rude, just remember old Hamburgler; I wont say I told you so, but I wont give you any sympathy either, I'll just say that they had no obligation to be nice to you, afterall thats the point your trying to make isnt it?

-Ham :shock:

 

[yanzi]

like i said before, it's easy for high levels to look down and/or ignore the less fortunate mid-lower levels. but helping people out, even a stranger is just a part of being kind. i would even venture to say a lot of ppl meet and become friends from helping strangers out in this game.

I never said I don't go help out lower/mid level players out. I said that with all the request for help, I have to pick and choose those I help. People I know or have PT with before gets more consideration than people who send random /tell.

Yesterday I helped 3 mid level people get avatars (you were one of them Yanzi), and 1 person with AF3. How am I hyprocritical?

that was directed at jsoft's post.
as for avatars, i kind of felt i was being used for my teleport since i wasn't able to do ramuh, and you did know i wanted ramuh. so it was more of a convenience thing vs. helping out a stranger. i.e. would you have gone becuase i wanted to go or because firestreak wanted to go?