Sam/war salvage gear discussion

[Dejavu]

I have read alot of forums that advocate using sam/war tanks for salvage bosses if you have to gear to be able to support it... Now i know that what i have is not perfect but for now it is what i got... What i am looking for is a discussion of what i may want to change to make it work a little better seeing as i have yet to try it and as of yet i have only done bosses as mnk/nin and i am looking for a better way.

Gear is as follows...

Any discussion or questions are welcomed.

 

[Arezael]

You will want to add an Iron Ram Lance for damage mitigation. The bosses aren't restricted to physical damage only, you will find keeping hate with a Terra's staff while trying to persistently mitigate damage to be difficult at best.

One of the bosses has reasonably high evasion, since dealing damage will be your main enmity tool, I recommend that you find a way to build more accuracy into your 6 hit/Haste TP setup. Ideally drop the Chiv chain, Askar korazin, Sarutobi kyahan and get a PCC, use your Haubergeon+1 (?) and a pair of Usukane sune-ate.

I have a few more suggestions if you want further input.

 

[Dejavu]

Well truthfully the if you see by how i labeled it the only reason that i have the terra's staff listed is as a stall piece when i am not engaged and doing damage anyways. Also the terra's staff is extremely useful imo on the brainjacking one because i am very unlikely to hit others with it (also why i leave dusk gloves on because that one is the particular one i am currently going after for my usu feet... lol).

The reason that i Use the askar body is because i dont necessarily like the -20 eva that is on it, i dont have any kind of Acc problem and also since i do not yet have Usu the askar body makes it so that i dont have to full time a piece of hachi and i can maintain my 6 hit.

I agree that the chiv chain is a bad choice and the only reason i use it is because for the last ... 15+ JOJ kills the torque has been mine and i did not expect to have to use the chiv this long when i sold my PCC. Also all my other melee jobs i already have the sea torques for so the only job i need chiv for is my sam;; I wont buy another PCC out of principle at this point.

 

[Arezael]

You have a decent Sam equipment range, it is not my intention to belittle it, there are uses for all the items you have shown, given the circumstances.

As far as evasion goes, and this is something I deliberately avoided posting previously, the loss of evasion switching from an Haubergeon +1 to an Askar korazin probably isn't enough in itself to be a major factor in the boss fights. I would suggest to you that you consider an evasoin build also, but that depends on how much you're willing to spend.

As far as I am concerned a PCC, Haubergeon(+1), Usukane sune-ate are items every Samurai should own, which is why I made that particular suggestion.

 

[Dejavu]

I really was not expecting you to suggest an evasion build because sams dont really evade that often however the reason that i lean towards the askar instead of the hauby is that it is a 32 eva swing... and that big of a swing is enough to be significant.

What other pieces did you have in mind as far as an evasion build is concerned...?

 

[Arezael]

Most of my evasion gear set has been inherited from my days levelling Ninja, so a lot of this I actually had already (with regards to spending):

I use, where the situation merits:

Scorpion harness +1, Emperor hairpin, Seiryu's kote, Boxer's mantle, Scouter's rope, Evasion torque + earring, Fenrir's stone (night), AGI+ rings (Snow and Breeze in my case).

Part of the reason for this is that I do rely on Parrying as part of my damage mitigation.

 

[Dejavu]

well i have no hope of parrying seeing as my skill is at like 140 (i am not and will never be a nin) i have alot of that gear that you listed already and its kinda laying around in my moghouse from my thf. In the damage mit set that i have i was able to get hits on the brainjacking one down to from 140-180 a hit which is reasonable when compared to the 300-400ish i took when i got caught with shadows down on mnk.

My basic question is will that gear allow for me to evade 23% more attacks than i am currently evading because otherwise i dont really think it would be overly worthwhile but i guess its something i may have to test.

Just to make sure that i understand it correctly you are comparing this set I filled in a few holes (af+1 legs for parry skill, rat +1 feet for eva, and etheral earring cause it has eva as well...) to the def set?

(+) means def set has advantage (-) means eva set has advantage

Evasion set bonuses
Hp -62
Agi -29
Vit -3
Mdt - (+5)
Store Tp -3
parrying skill -15
Accuracy -12
Evasion -53
evasion skill -20
counter -1

Def set bonuses
dusk + (-3)
Attack +6
pdt + (-23)
Enmity +17
Dex +4
Str +10
Def +19

 

[Caerloc]

When people use sam/war for bosses all you really do is seigan, third eye and melee away. I would really only recomend it for Battleclad chariot. You can probably do it on any of the bosses if you REALLY wanted, but then you would be swapping out so much gear, loosing so much dmg, so the effectiviness you wanted will be gone.

On the opther hand, mnks with counterstance, melee gaiters and full countr merits will do just as well, if not better /war.

 

[Dejavu]

eh i have that as well... i just really dislike counterstance but... mnk/war tanking?

 

[Arezael]

It really is a judgement call as to which set you would use. A lot depends on your combat skill (Evasion, Parrying) and in most cases you would have to either parse or judge by looking to see if you're evading/parrying attacks while in your normal build.

Evasion is really only in my case, when I don't have Third eye up with the timer still running, and I've been evading/parrying a good portion of the attacks headed my way. In this case I would still have some DMG-% items in place ( IR Lance ) for the inevitable ones that get through.

If you're in dark red hp and the situation is desperate, ie. your mages are either dead, weakened or out of mp, chances are unless you get a cure, neither set would actually do a whole lot.

In all honesty, if I didn't have a lot of the items already, I would be happy enough to stick to the DMG-% set, but the option is there if needed.

 

[Caerloc]

Fuck yeah. Even when /nin i always counterstance on the bosses. Pretty much, i always counterstance. But again, i really wouldnt recomend it for anything but Battleclad chariot, unless you know your team VERY well and know they are on point.

For battleclad chariot its pretty easy, for the others it really helps with 4 evasion merits and 0 -evasion gear. (i even have some +evasion gear, but not for the evasion on it) The chariots have pretty shitty acc. Between counter and mnks high evasion, you dont get hit very much.

 

[Caerloc]

Not to mention, due to the chariots extremely high attack, when they do hit you the dmg isnt very different wether you have counterstance on or not.

 

[Arezael]

Not sure why Monk got brought into this, but I am curious as to what you do about the AoE moves whilst under the effect of Counterstance. I'm making the assumption that you're going in with around 6 people, if you have more and the MP to spare then so be it.

 

[Hach]

hmm a gd monk while tanking boss basically will only take damage when he do AoE and considering the fact with march and Haste, u can easily rotate between Ni and ichi

 

[Caerloc]

Not sure why Monk got brought into this, but I am curious as to what you do about the AoE moves whilst under the effect of Counterstance. I'm making the assumption that you're going in with around 6 people, if you have more and the MP to spare then so be it.

Im not sure what you think the AoE is gonna do extra during counterstance. Or even /war. They are magic damage and shadow-wiping, your forced to eat them equally wether you sub nin or war and wether you have counterstance up or not.

I never go with more then 6.

 

[Arezael]

I was under the impression Mortal Revolution was AoE. Physical Based and absorbed by Utsusemi.

I'm not sure where you get the idea Mnk/War with Counterstance up isn't going to take extra damage from it.

 

[pchan]

Fuck yeah. Even when /nin i always counterstance on the bosses. Pretty much, i always counterstance. But again, i really wouldnt recomend it for anything but Battleclad chariot, unless you know your team VERY well and know they are on point.

For battleclad chariot its pretty easy, for the others it really helps with 4 evasion merits and 0 -evasion gear. (i even have some +evasion gear, but not for the evasion on it) The chariots have pretty shitty acc. Between counter and mnks high evasion, you dont get hit very much.

Counterstance on chariots is retarded. 500 critical w/o countertance lol. At least full time. It's recommended to use it to steal hate or help recast shadows once or 2 but otherwise it's suicidal. Chariot's accuracy is not shitty either .. one hit one shadow lol.

 

[mdkuser]

Just to make things clear, Arrapago boss's special is mortal revolution, a tripple attack aoe physical move, can be blocked by utsusemi but not by seigan. Counterstance increase the dmg u take from it ( if the 3 hits land with counterstance, can do up to 1600 dmg).

Personally I use counterstance whenever I feel I'ts safe. Sometimes I don't, some times I use. I don't use it on Bhaflau unweakned ( yay tripple attacks for 600 each), I use it on the weak version, I use it on zhayolm boss, on SS boss ( depends on MP), and on arap boss only for spike hate. It usually saves your life more than it kills you, but it's dangerous.

 

[Caerloc]

Just to make things clear, Arrapago boss's special is mortal revolution, a tripple attack aoe physical move, can be blocked by utsusemi but not by seigan. Counterstance increase the dmg u take from it ( if the 3 hits land with counterstance, can do up to 1600 dmg).

Personally I use counterstance whenever I feel I'ts safe. Sometimes I don't, some times I use. I don't use it on Bhaflau unweakned ( yay tripple attacks for 600 each), I use it on the weak version, I use it on zhayolm boss, on SS boss ( depends on MP), and on arap boss only for spike hate. It usually saves your life more than it kills you, but it's dangerous.

I actually did Arrapago just the other day, and while i didnt /war (like i usually dont) i did counterstance the entire time, and i cant remember ever taking more then 3-400 dmg from the ws. But in all, this is a post i could agree more with then Pchan's, even if i obviously dont agree with all off it.

I know you play around in salvage alot. I'd suggest you try MNK/WAR on battleclad chariot, just to see for yourself. Assuming full countermerits and melee gaiters. You'll be surprised.
(You'll prolly need atleast 5 to test it out tho, mnk, mnk, brd, rdm,whm)

 

[jamal]

I have read alot of forums that advocate using sam/war tanks for salvage bosses if you have to gear to be able to support it... Now i know that what i have is not perfect but for now it is what i got... What i am looking for is a discussion of what i may want to change to make it work a little better seeing as i have yet to try it and as of yet i have only done bosses as mnk/nin and i am looking for a better way.

Gear is as follows...

Any discussion or questions are welcomed.

Question really to anyone...what are the real gear requirements to have SAM/WAR tank anything...I see quite a bit of possibilities, but what sets Salvage bosses apart as something SAM/WAR can tank rather than other NMs?