SATA'ing with THF Sub?

[Tyrath]

Exactly. It does.
My 2 points above mentioned that it was possible. For THF pre-60, and any job trying to just TA, it is possible that you miss.
Assassin, the level 60 trait, THF onry, does the 2 things I mentioned.
1, it GUARANTEES that TA will land.
2, it GUARANTEES that TA will be a crit, as SA always has been.

Oh ok, I wasn't sure if you were saying it didnt transfer hate without SA.

 

[Myst]

Basic Answer

Whoa. I just reread the main post and we flew off topic, almost not answering the original question.

Turns out that it was him, and that hate was never transferred to me...
So now we began to wonder if SATA worked if you had thf as sub, because we know that so many DDs use this after lvl 60...
Is anyone able to confirm if SATA works if you have thf subbed?

Aside from all of this confusion on each other's explaination of TA, I think we can all agree that:
Yes Zer, SATA does "work" (as in transfer hate).

Fly's explaination would be the reason why the hate wasn't transfering to you during your tests (you weren't on the mob's hate list since you hadn't done anything to it yet).

 

[Langly]

I'm inclined to think there was an error in the setup of those TA's.

In any TA I've ever done, when the swing landed, hate was transferred. TA can be quite harsh. And very picky in it's lineup. Very picky.

Pre 60THF
SA- Guaranteed Critical modifying your weapon DMG rating by your total DEX. Behind the mob (usually 30 degree arc).
TA- Hate transfer to ally between you and mob. Modified (not like SA) by your AGI.
SATA - Guaranteed Critical hit modifying your weapon damage by total DEX and then further modified by your total AGI, when lined up correctly behind a mob SA will force critical making TA land.

60+THF
SA- Same as always.
TA- Now the DMG calculation works just like SA. Using AGI in place of DEX.
SATA- Doubley modified when lined up correctly just like pre 60 SATA.

Try it out sometime. Just try doing TA on THF main. If you hit your next shot you'll notice the difference in damage if you're lined up correctly. When I used to do this in the jungles (timing gets messed up it happens) TA soloed would make my sword hit for about 80 damage without critical animation. But since I was pre 60 and lacking Assassin, the hit was not guaranteed.

When subbing THF. You lose the DEX modification on SA. And the AGI modification on TA. But the rest works the exact same.

And haven't seen any evidence of not carrying any hate from a successful TA even without doing anything to the mob. Maybe just try again?

 

[Tagrineth]

Actually TA always uses your full AGI, but without the critical hit. Assassin adds the critical hit.

Without the critical, most Thieves simply don't have enough STR or ATT to work with the increased DMG of the weapon wielded, especially pre 60.

 

[Peregrine]

While fighting a Goobbue, Xean came behind me and used Trick Attack. He had asked me not to fight, so that we could see who actually took hate. Turns out that it was him.

I really don't see why so many DDs sub thf when WAR has better stats, and double ATK

He must have mislined. If the only damage done to the mob was a trick attack hit and the mob wasn't fooled, then the trick attack actually missed. They just happened to hit the swing at insufficient angle.

I really don't see why so many DDs sub thf when WAR has better stats, and double ATK

Within a xp context, they like how that one hit makes them feel, even if they're nerfing themselves for 59 seconds of the fighting minute. Wars and Sams are about the only superior uses of a thief sub there are in the xp field. drk/thf is too slow to be an effective member of the party, no matter how hard it hits. They stall the group. They just look good in doing so. This concept will forever elude the average player because you can never convince them that their 1100 spinning slash is, in fact, slowing the xp down and they will never admit that they're slow as a...well...a dark knight.

 

[etchdog2000]

Within a xp context, they like how that one hit makes them feel, even if they're nerfing themselves for 59 seconds of the fighting minute. Wars and Sams are about the only superior uses of a thief sub there are in the xp field. drk/thf is too slow to be an effective member of the party, no matter how hard it hits. They stall the group. They just look good in doing so. This concept will forever elude the average player because you can never convince them that their 1100 spinning slash is, in fact, slowing the xp down and they will never admit that they're slow as a...well...a dark knight.

I just wanted to say as a DRK I would much rather /war in EXP. However rarely did 60+ and never did 66+ up until 73.(except a few choice times) You are correct /war does much more dmg/better DoT. However there was a few times I took /war out. The reason that DRKs /THF is NOT for the big number on the WS, its to keep them from dying.

I would also agree DRK/THF may be... the slowest TP gainer in the game. Doing consistant 900-1300 SS and not geting hate for it is just an extra bonus.

However now that I exp for merits I finally get to /war whenever I want in Melee cannons which is wonderful.

 

[etchdog2000]

I forgot to add. Spinning Slash without a guaranteed hit is HIGHLY inaccurate. I NEVER use GS or Scythe for that matter /war if Im expected to participate in a lvl 3 SC. The results very on WS accuracy unless you are fighting VT- mobs.

 

[Ruck]

For the record TA will work even if the other person isnt engaged. I do it to Aither all the time when he goes away without saying anything to us. Funny watching a mob miss him over and over and the way he reacts when he gets back.

 

[Sneakypants]

So you're saying that it's the SA that's transferring hate, and TA is just there? Or are you saying TA only transfers hate when stacked with SA?

Maybe I didn't answer this question before. I don't think I read it right.
TA will always transfer hate if you are lined up correctly and you land the hit. Assassin guarantees that you will land that hit, functioning just the way SA always has...However the modifier is AGI versus DEX mod on SA.

 

[Sneakypants]

Whoa. I just reread the main post and we flew off topic, almost not answering the original question.

lol, yeah that was an easy one and the "yes" which would appropriately answer the question was glossed over with more intricate discussion.

 

[Sneakypants]

I just wanted to say as a DRK I would much rather /war in EXP. However rarely did 60+ and never did 66+ up until 73.(except a few choice times) You are correct /war does much more dmg/better DoT. However there was a few times I took /war out. The reason that DRKs /THF is NOT for the big number on the WS, its to keep them from dying.

I would also agree DRK/THF may be... the slowest TP gainer in the game. Doing consistant 900-1300 SS and not geting hate for it is just an extra bonus.

However now that I exp for merits I finally get to /war whenever I want in Melee cannons which is wonderful.

Don't ever quote Peregrine again. I have him on ignore for a reason. lol
Seriously, is there a way that quotes from people on ignore list can be blacked out? He's just such a retard, it sickens me to have to view one word of his. I'm offended. Cancel Christmas.

 

[meeze]

I just wanted to say as a DRK I would much rather /war in EXP. However rarely did 60+ and never did 66+ up until 73.(except a few choice times) You are correct /war does much more dmg/better DoT. However there was a few times I took /war out. The reason that DRKs /THF is NOT for the big number on the WS, its to keep them from dying.

I would also agree DRK/THF may be... the slowest TP gainer in the game. Doing consistant 900-1300 SS and not geting hate for it is just an extra bonus.

However now that I exp for merits I finally get to /war whenever I want in Melee cannons which is wonderful.

/war I'm guessing you use scythe, usually they are 528 delay, while /thf usually use GS 480 delay. Wonder what the DoT impacts actually are when double attack is added. TP gain as well, I'm guessing they can't be too far off.

 

[Amidamaru]

TA sucks being subbed for everything it only passes a lil bit of hate u notice a dig difference with thfs because they have the assassin ability

 

[Tymon]

when subbing thief, TA doesn't add the critical and extra damage, but it does plant hate on the person you're TAing on to. SA alone does add the critical.

 

[Shaidalyn]

Sneaky and Neo said it best way back up.. both SA and TA are nerfed when subbed.. they lose their stat mods.
Just compare.. I can SA (thf is only 17 so I know nothing about TA dmg) for over 150dmg as a level 17 thf on a good shot..
as RdM, level 62, subbing my gimp ass leveled thf with over 250 attack... I do like 150...
So while SA is hurt.. I'd assume TA.. and it has been confirmed *looks up* a lot @.@
so as you can see, its rather nerfed

 

[Passions]

TA isn't a garenteed hit, but any damage done with TA up is transfered BUT... You can only be in front, behind, or at a 90 degree angle from the mob. You dont have to have "inishiated hate" for the TA to stick on you. i will be fighting multiple monsters with my 3 characters and ill move one over stand behind a different character that is taking a completely different mob and TA>DE and all that hate is stuck on that character i just TA.

Pre Assasan TA will increase the damage done, just not a CH increase. I'm not sure if its the same for /thf. The point is, check how your were standing, TA is as tricky as SA. Check your line make sure your corectly in position.

ALSO, ALL HATE is transfered with a TA, whether it be a multi-hit WS or Single hit. It doesn't take all the hate from a triple attack or double attack only the first attack.

Another thing, TA can be done from any of the 4 sides of the mob. it doesn't have to be facing away from you like SA that was nerfed to that.

 

[Peregrine]

Don't ever quote Peregrine again. I have him on ignore for a reason. lol
Seriously, is there a way that quotes from people on ignore list can be blacked out? He's just such a retard, it sickens me to have to view one word of his. I'm offended. Cancel Christmas.

Oh look, a mod who found their badge in the bottom of a lucky charms box. Do you need help finding your way around QCDN? You seem LOST.

Drk/war > drk/thf because thief has been so downgraded as a sub over the years by developers. You shouldn't sub thf to stay alive. That's a tad lazy and inept. The only dark knights that I've seen steal hate did so illegitemately by stacking ability after ability, not because they were all that great. Sam and war are about the only legitimate thief subbers in xp context. Double attack with a high delay weapon. Berserk. Warcry. Attack bonus. Defense bonus. You can always turn around if you're that good.

But yeah. You can trick an afk sitting bard. The mob doesn't have to know them.

But can you trick a truesight mob?

 

[Xean]

Well, finally came back, mainly to take a look at this topic since I haven't come to look at it. I asked Zerayla to post this. Anyways, in reference to what Peregrine said, NO, I did not misline. I don't like hearing those egotistical assumptions from you. Lining up is NOT hard, so don't think that was the case. Quit talking as if you're above people.

And yeah, my understanding was that there was just something wrong with TA. When I saw that happen, I still pondered over whether the hate still transferred with SATA. I think there were many reasons why it would, and wanted to know them. From my experience with THF, SA does seem to boost your accuracy with that hit since I've noticed it's difficult to miss a hit with SA on it. Now that makes sense to me why TA alone might not do it, as some have explained, due to its lack of accuracy, but SA boosts that, almost ensuring that TA lands, and thus transferring hate. I didn't doubt SATA would work since I've seen it done all the time, but just wondered why.

Anyways, thanks for your posts.

Edit: Forgot to mention that when we've gone farming together, I often did SA on the mob, then did TA on her, which DOES transfer hate even though the mob is looking at her. And that is when she's engaged too. This time I asked her not to.

 

[Shaidalyn]

Still think /war owns... Double Attack.. Berserk.. far outweigh a single TA per fight.... >.>

but yeah, I agree with (OMG) Pere here on subs.

 

[Passions]

sata is for hate management when subbed not for damage or big numbers.