Sea Gorget VS. Sea Torque: Test Result

[uku]

It's hard to say which one would be the best neck piece for WS, so I did a little test today when I xp in Mount Zhayolm on Trolls, basically I was using breeze for Blade Jin for the first hour, then switched to hope torque for another hour, I marked down tp-return on every WS for accuracy, and used log parser for damage comparison.

Party setup was NIN(Alvon) WAR1(Nacht) WAR2(Galkan) BRD RDM WHM

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Breeze Gorget:

WS#: 60

1~3 hit Blade Jin (TP x #):
4% x 1
3% x 1
6% x 3
10% x 6

4~6 hit Blade Jin (TP x #):
7% x 1
11% x 33
12% x 14(DA)
13% x 1(DAx2)

Full-Connect Jin #: 1+33+14+1 = 49
Full-Connect Jin %: 49/60 = 81.67%
DA Jin %: 15/60 = 25%

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Hope Torque

WS#: 60

2~3 hit Blade Jin (TP x #):
5% x 1
9% x 1
6% x 4
10% x 5

4~6 hit Blade Jin (TP x #):
7% x 2
11% x 32
12% x 12(DA)
13% x 3(DAx2)

Full-Connect Jin #: 2+32+12+3 = 49
Full-Connect Jin %: 49/60 = 81.67%
DA Jin %: 15/60 = 25%

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Damage Analysis: Gorget to Torque

Compare the average WS output from Gorget > Torque:

NIN: 696.07 > 678.75 (-2.49%)

WAR1: 761.24 > 731.4 (-3.92%)
WAR2: 690.28 > 706.35 (+2.33%)
WAR(Average): 725.76 > 718.88 (-0.95%)

NIN %: 696.07/725.76 > 678.75/718.88 = 95.91% > 94.42% (-1.56%)

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Conclusion:

Both had same ws accuracy on full-connect Jin, Hope Torque had 1.56% less in damage compare to Breeze Gorget.

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Suggestion:

The difference is really small, might be easier just to keep Torque on full time.

 

[neophytal]

now these types of threads, i like

 

[Acutie]

numbers make my head hurt

 

[evanos]

Nice find, now I just have to get my torque...

Also, what days were you using your Breeze Gorget on? I have noticed dramatic damage output on Windsay compared to other days of the week on my Jin. At first I thought this was just coincidence but it seems to be pretty consistent. Maybe you could add this to your analysis.

 

[Rorschach]

Now I'm just a Blm main, but I would have thought it better to use the Torque for TP gain and the Gorget for WS.

Or was this a test to see if Skill helps WS's connect more?

 

[eiteen]

can you parse the breeze vs hope vs chiv chain vs pcc or something?

i think that would be a great comparasion to see if those sea gorgets and torques are really worth the hassle... but im sure if you have both its epeeen +1... but just for us regular guys out there.. ^^

 

[decidence]

The comparison I'm interested in is Hope Torque vs PCC for TPGain. It's obvious why Breeze Gorget would be better for WS just looking at the effects/stats they give.

 

[Nasya]

what i'm about to say is largely based on conjecture, but it would seem to me that a torque would do better than a gorget, as skill is generally thought to be more affective than plain accuracy (2 checks (evasion skill, and evasion) vs 1 (evasion)).

Also, with the limited tests I've done on breeze vs love for DE... love came out on top. Perhaps I'll do a more detailed one and post results here to see if that is actually the case over an extended period of time.

Avalon, what was your WS Setup asside from the neck pieces? and your food?

Also, perhaps i am being stupid here but... shouldn't double attack WSs be discounted from the full hit WS and actual WS count for statistics? There is no way for you to know if DA tried to proc more than once during the WS, since the animation doesn't change. Infact, this is a factor that could cause even more of the data to be invalid (not trying to be offensive really... just looking at the possibility) as some of the 3 hit WS you did could have had a proc go off, but not actually hit... couldn't they have? Or is a DA/TA in WS guaranteed to hit (find it unlikely, but honestly i don't know...)

 

[Zethren]

I don't mean to shit on anyone. The OP did a good job and took his time to show us good results. But I want to know, can PTing for 1 hour give you good accurate results?

 

[Zoolander]

Hmmm, I didn't really think about testing if my Hope Torque was better than my Breeze Gorget on WS...I'll try some tests in next few cannons. And I cant really imagine PCC being better for TP gain than Hope Torque.

 

[Lavi]

I don't mean to shit on anyone. The OP did a good job and took his time to show us good results. But I want to know, can PTing for 1 hour give you good accurate results?

Statistically, he'd need to do a lot more to gain reliable data that would be accurate (accurate as in hold up against scrutiny), but I don't see a lot of variation in his data so you can assume it to be fairly accurate. If you were to do a parse and get differring results, you could potentially use that as an argument against his data, but I doubt that would be the case given that both parses showed relatively the same information and the WS TP return seems similar although not the same (they should be almost exactly or relatively close to it).

Edit: Edited in the quote since Zoolander posts too fast.

 

[Nasya]

we could always do a test for statistical significance

I do really respect avalon for doing this test, and posting it. I don't want to rain on anyones parade However, there are a few controls that could be added to make the test more conclusive.

Having a job do a Multi Hit WS who didn't have Double or Tripple Attack would be one.

Limiting accuracy to better compair the two neck pieces would be another.

Like many other things in this game, accuracy suffers from deminishing returns. If Avalon was at a point during the test where his accuracy was already so high that the bonus from his neck pieces were not very significant, the only thing really being tested was the damage modifier the Gorget gives.

 

[Zoolander]

Pretty sure I read that the gorget gave around a +10% ish acc boost on WS. The more hits your WS is, the bigger deal your WS acc is. Kinda odd that Alvons tests showed gorget and hope to be EXACTLY the same acc...guess just a weird coincidence? Kinda hard to believe 10% more WS acc is = to 7 katana skill. 285/7 =/= 10%. As far as the power is concerned though, idk. Rukenshin tested on single hit WS's with Justice torque and Aqua (i think) on Tachi Gekko on Bunnies on W ron. Gorget dealt more dmg, even though the torque had +5 str and +7 attack. Although, granted attack kinda means nothing on a lvl 1 rabbit, and even less on a 1 hit WS, while attack means alot more on trolls and on multi hit WSs. Even then, your tests showed that Gorget did more on WS.

As far as accuracy of test goes, yea 1 hour of each is kinda iffy. However Nasya, testing with one hit WS's will throw off the results because the big factor in blade jin is making sure you are consistently getting full hits, making WS acc very important. Basically, its a pretty hard thing to test and would take alot of parsing to really get an accurate result, since over a long time things like DA and stuff will kind of average out to be the same. I'll bet 100 gil breeze gorget is better though. ^^

Would be interesting to see how Hope paired up with PCC, but I cant really see how 3 acc > 7 attack, if in fact 7 skill gives only 7 acc (which seems debatable to me since whenever i dinged and got more skill it helped out far more than adding on a sniper ring. Could be wrong though). Hope torque is obviously better than anything else, and Gorget is significantly better than Chiv chain or any others.

 

[Caaeia]

When combat skill is over 200, 1 skill only gives 0.92 accuracy. So Hope Torque, 7 x 0.92 = 6.44 accuracy (This might get rounded to 6). Where as PCC gives 10 accuracy. For TP gain pcc should be better then torque.

Now for WS, Gorget have a hidden effect of 10 accuracy during WS and it adds 0.1 pDIF to the first hit only. Now the torque would give 6.44 (again might get rounded) acc and 7 attack.

I currently build tp in pcc and ws in breeze. I doubt I'll ever switch to torque.

 

[Zoolander]

Not sure where you got the 1 skill = .92 acc, but even if thats true, you would take 3 - 4 acc over 7 attack (w/o zerk) and 9 attack (w/zerk)? Nin melee acc is pretty much always around 93% give or take a % or two with respectable gear. I guess it might depend on what you are meleeing, but 3 acc isnt really gunna make much of a diff on somthing that you are pretty much hitting the acc cap on, while nin doesnt have the greatest attack in the world, and 7/9 is a pretty nice chunk, especially when paired with a sizeable acc boost. Maybe if you dont have full katana merits i could understand, but idk how you could turn down 292 katana skill for 3-4 acc :/

 

[Caaeia]

I do have full katana merit and last time I checked I haven't hit 95% cap yet. And it's TP build, I rather get 100% as fast as I can. If you can't hit it, all the attack in the world can't help you. And yes I am taking 3-4 acc over 7 atk for TP build.

 

[Ugotjacked]

Not a huge Melee guy but I know for a damn fact that when I merited 2 MErits into Dagger on thief at level 55 the difference in acc was much higher then adding two sniper rings... Skill > Acc for sure maybe diminishing returns at higher levels but even so doubt that PCC > Hope Torque. And Im not sure where you got the .92 thing but if skill where to diminish in efficiency it would diminish more and more per level and it would be mob dependant for sure. Your Skill vs mobs Evasion is still a factor.

 

[Eulore]

I do have full katana merit and last time I checked I haven't hit 95% cap yet. And it's TP build, I rather get 100% as fast as I can. If you can't hit it, all the attack in the world can't help you. And yes I am taking 3-4 acc over 7 atk for TP build.

In the long run 7 attack is going to far outweigh missing 2-3 extra times per hour. And if all you're worried about is getting 100% as fast as you can, lol, offhand a hornet needle you gimp.

 

[Caaeia]

Sigh...first I am haste build for TP, so that means I dont use alot of acc gear, infact the only gear I use that have acc on is pcc and toreador ring. So yes, that acc is important to me. Of course I have a WS build that have str/dex/atk. But difference in hope torque/pcc/breeze gorget its like 2-3% from what I remember. Whichever one you use isn't gonna make a big difference.

PS - Ninja only have a c+ combat rating in dagger, acc will be very bad.

 

[Eulore]

Sigh...first I am haste build for TP, so that means I dont use alot of acc gear, infact the only gear I use that have acc on is pcc and toreador ring. So yes, that acc is important to me. Of course I have a WS build that have str/dex/atk. But difference in hope torque/pcc/breeze gorget its like 2-3% from what I remember. Whichever one you use isn't gonna make a big difference.

PS - Ninja only have a c+ combat rating in dagger, acc will be very bad.

My point was that you implied all you care about is getting 100% TP ASAP, but if you disregard your DPS while doing so, there's no way in hell I'm partying with you because that would make you one hell of a gimp ninja.