Sirius Satellite Radio Blows...

[Duddits]

And so does their customer service.

I got Sirius radio 2 years ago because I was tired of listening to the same old crap on regular radio. When I first got it, I was excited because of the many different channels they have, some of which cater to the music I like.

After about 3 months of listening I realized that Sirius was no different except for it being commercial free. I sent them an email telling them of my disappointment in the programming and of course, all I got back was the typical corporate response. Knowing that they wouldn't change jack shit for little old me, I went out and bought an mp3 player and completely forgot about Sirius. That is until renewal time came around which is in September.

I had forgot that my account was setup for re-occurring payments and Sirius didn't send me anything last year reminding me that it was time to renew. This year they did.

Last year I sucked it up and gave Sirius another shot. I turned on my radio, got all the updates, started listening and what do you know? Same old shit, different year. After about a week I stopped listening again and went back to my mp3 player which has about 6,000 songs on it.

So yesterday I get a brochure in the mail from Sirius advising that it's time to renew my subscription in September. By now, I'm determined to cancel my subscription so I call Customer Care. After speaking to 4 different people and providing each and every one of them my information, I finally get transferred to a lady who starts the cancellation process. While I'm on hold, guess what happens? I get disconnected. Go figure.

I call them back and naturally, the whole process starts over again. I tried explaining to the first person where I was at with the cancellation process and she transferred me to another person who tried to sell me a different subscription even after I told the ding dong that I was cancelling.

To make a long story short, I finally get back to the first lady that started the cancellation process and she completes my request. She tells me that I still have $14 left over in the account and asked me if I wanted it put back on my credit card. I told her the credit card that was used to establish the account and renew the account after the first year had expired and I wasn't sure whether or not to give them my new number. At this point, she reads off the last 4 numbers of the credit card and the expiration date listed on the account and it turns out to be my new card. I never gave them the new number and expiration date. I got my new card in January of this year.

I had accounts with Gamefly, WoW and AoC and they all had to suspend my accounts due to non-payment when my old card expired. FFXI temporarily suspended my account until I went in and updated the credit card info myself. So how did Sirius get my new credit card number? More than likely, I'll have to contact my bank to find out how they got it because I sure as hell didn't give it to them.

 

[Dejavu]

Worse than that would be if she read you off you CC number and expiration date because no matter the circumstances they should never give you that information beyond confirming what you read is what they have.

 

[Morcheeba]

As far as the new CC # goes, my renewed card is the exact same number but with an updated expiration date. E- ahh but what DID change was the 3 digit security number on the back of my card for verification, otherwise any debit system can't process the card. Sorry I forgot about that nifty thing. So if it were me in your situation they could have read my number back to me, but when it came time to charge it they would have been denied, as they would have to update the info and they wouldn't have it all.

I had considered getting Sirius but after this I think not. I don't like that the radio lacks variety but at least I have a number of stations to choose from that play my likes.

Worse than that would be if she read you off you CC number and expiration date because no matter the circumstances they should never give you that information beyond confirming what you read is what they have.

He had said he confirmed all his info to 4 people. So the security process had been passed.

 

[Dejavu]

After speaking to 4 different people and providing each and every one of them my information, I finally get transferred to a lady who starts the cancellation process.

To make a long story short, I finally get back to the first lady that started the cancellation process and she completes my request. She tells me that I still have $14 left over in the account and asked me if I wanted it put back on my credit card. I told her the credit card that was used to establish the account and renew the account after the first year had expired and I wasn't sure whether or not to give them my new number. At this point, she reads off the last 4 numbers of the credit card and the expiration date listed on the account and it turns out to be my new card. I never gave them the new number and expiration date. I got my new card in January of this year.

He stated he never gave them that CC number so obviously the CC number was not part of verifying the account. This means that the CC number should not be given but only checked.

 

[Morcheeba]

He stated he never gave them that CC number so obviously the CC number was not part of verifying the account. This means that the CC number should not be given but only checked.

Ah I see what you mean. The last 4 numbers aren't really a bad thing to do.

 

[Dejavu]

I dont have sirius but if i did and this happened to me i would probably throw a shit fit about their security protocols assuming someone didnt just make a mistake.

 

[Duddits]

I checked my bank account paper statement for the month of September last year and the charge from Sirius is on there but under my old credit card number. I'm going to print the statement and take it to the bank tomorrow so they can explain to me how Sirius got my new number.

 

[Duddits]

As far as the new CC # goes, my renewed card is the exact same number but with an updated expiration date. E- ahh but what DID change was the 3 digit security number on the back of my card for verification, otherwise any debit system can't process the card.

I bank at Wachovia and when they issued me a new card, they changed the last 4 digits of the number, the expiration date and the security number on the back.

 

[Morcheeba]

I bank at Wachovia and when they issued me a new card, they changed the last 4 digits of the number, the expiration date and the security number on the back.

Yeah I bank at a canuck financial institute.. they suck. My card it still issued through Visa though >.>

 

[Uzor]

Worse than that would be if she read you off you CC number and expiration date because no matter the circumstances they should never give you that information beyond confirming what you read is what they have.

Actually, last 4 and expiration date is fine. No one can do anything with that information. I'm willing to bet the customer service guy can't see the number beyond the last 4 and expiration date. Usually for customer service it says something like **** **** **** 4321 11/12. Sometimes it also shows the first 3 or 4 The reason being that no one can do anything with that information, and is thus safe to show.

The thing I don't like, which is extremely bad for safety reasons, and the way most illegal groups get a hand of your credit card numbers, is that the card slip you sign when you use your card to buy things in a store, contains the full card number as well as the name of the card holder. Some shady people then sell or exchange this information about your card to other groups in another country, who then use it to forge fake cards or buy things online.

For this reason you should ALWAYS scratch away or in some way hide the CVS number on the back of your card (the last 3 numbers after the initial last 4 numbers of your CC number). While all cards do not have this, a lot of them do. It is easy for a taxi driver or a shop cleric to act natural and pay with the card you chose, look on the back (which most of the time you don't think about), memorize the last 3 numbers and then write it down at the top or bottom of the slip after you've signed it and left. That way they have everything they need in order to use your card to buy stuff.

Company I work for has been trying to change the way this work for a long time, but as no one else seem to be motioning a change its not leading anywhere. You too should voice a concern about this and try to get it change. ITs not any different from phishing or putting on a small machine inside a ATM machine to copy your card information, except for being easier to do and a huge violation of trust.

The majority of the credit card frauds we get are actually due to less serious companies selling credit card slip information to criminal groups, and not the more "classic" ways you hear about and learn to watch out for. The most dangerous place is restaurants, where you hand your card over to a stranger you're supposed to trust.

Reason they sell the information rather than use it themselves is because, while illegal, is hard for the police to track down. Thus it makes the seller of the information rather safe, as the police will only bother trying to catch the person using the credit card, which usually do not lead anywhere anyway as most of the time the information is sold abroad, which lead to miscommunication and prolonged investigation, and eventually leads to the case being closed and you screwed of your money.

 

[Morcheeba]

Any CC receipts here have the numbers hidden by the ****-****-****-1234 method. Including the merchant copy. No receipts should have the full card number. It is not required because as long as you have a transaction number, or transit (which you get after the card has cleared for the transaction in question) you do not require the CC number. If a merchant had problems after a customer has left and they are unable to contact or locate that customer to follow-up all that is required is a call to the company, Visa-MC-AMEX w/e and to provide the transit number for verification that the transaction went through.

Again, when cards are renewed here you do not get a new card number, just an updated expiry and security number.

I had to call CC companies many times with customers who had us keep their cards on file for reoccurring payments. The receipts always printed with the numbers blocked but the full number was originally given to us and kept locked in my customer files.

 

[Uzor]

I had to call CC companies many times with customers who had us keep their cards on file for reoccurring payments.The receipts always printed with the numbers blocked but the full number was originally given to us and kept locked in my customer files.

Which is my point exactly.

And yes, I know all about the transit number, which is why its so pointless that it shows the whole number on the slip kept by the store.

To be honest your post was a little fuzzy. First it stated that it never shows the full number, but at the end you write that it is shown.

 

[Morcheeba]

First it stated that it never shows the full number, but at the end you write that it is shown.

Huh. I don't know where I said the slips show the full number >.>; Unless you mean when I said 'they could read my number back to me' They could only confirm the last 4. In all my experience no company rep has ever confirmed more than the last 4.

All receipts I've ever had print out for Merchant filing has had hidden numbers less the last 4 and applicable transit number for transaction confirmation.

Anytime I had issues with reoccuring transactions, which were automatic, I would be flagged and I would follow-up directly with the account. Soemtimes they had their cards changed because it was stolen or lost etc, and they would 'forget' to advise us.

 

[Uzor]

You said "But the full number was originally given to us and kept locked in my customer files"

Either way, perhaps its different in the states (I've never worked there, so I wouldn't know what the store copy looks like), but at least in Sweden, and I assume most of Europe, the vendor copy of the receipt contains the full card number, which in my opinion is utterly retarded as it is not needed. I mean, I can understand the customer's copy only containing the last 4 since customers tend to forget, lose or leave their slip, but why the vendor has the full number I'll never know.

 

[Morcheeba]

You said "But the full number was originally given to us and kept locked in my customer files"

Yes but in contract form. Whether a single document that outlines the customers allowing *us* the company to process monthly, bi-monthly, semi-annual payments or what have you. In order to set-up the original customer account we would need the number to input so reoccurring charges could be applied automatically. Understanding I worked with different Accounting software at the time. But there are a number of programs that would require this information. Like if you set-up pre-authorized payments with your Phone Company, or cable company, to be applied to your CC. At some point they are going to require your full number.

In my case we would have them fill out the contract and that's all we require. As a 'bondable' company the customers have little to no worry. It is the responsibility of the company to ensure any associates that are privy to that information are themselves bondable. And if in any case something were to happen it would be the company that would be held responsible. There are no guarantees with anything.

 

[Uzor]

Maybe its different in the states, because for those payment methods (unless they sign up over t Andhe Internet), you usually take their account number rather than their card number. if they so chose to sign up online (as with FFXI where you enter your credit card information), it is stored on the server, and customer service only have access to the last 4 either way in order to prevent malicious activity.

I'm talking about stores or restaurants. While it might be different in the states, I am assuming that that the vendor's slip contains the full card number, as it do here. Then again, perhaps America is smarter than us and realize the utter idiocy of showing the full card number on the slip the vendor keep.

 

[Morcheeba]

Maybe its different in the states, because for those payment methods (unless they sign up over t Andhe Internet), you usually take their account number rather than their card number. if they so chose to sign up online (as with FFXI where you enter your credit card information), it is stored on the server, and customer service only have access to the last 4 either way in order to prevent malicious activity.

I'm talking about stores or restaurants. While it might be different in the states, I am assuming that that the vendor's slip contains the full card number, as it do here. Then again, perhaps America is smarter than us and realize the utter idiocy of showing the full card number on the slip the vendor keep.

Any service vendor debit system imo should NOT print receipts with the CC number shown in full. That.Is.Idiotic.

I agree. In Canada it is not that way.

What I was referring to was setting up accounts. This initial process of establishing an account. Whether with an individual and their personal CC, or a corporation and a corporate CC.

We would require the card number. Without it an account number would not be established. Once the initial process was complete and an account was set-up form that point on to access the customer file in the system would be via the acct #. Or other toggle fields depending on the system.

But yeah, restaurants, salons, gas stations, no regular vendor debit machines should ever print a cc receipt with the card # shown in full.

As far as this company having an update number for Duddits card. That's beyond me. It's not the fault of the company that's for damn sure. No financial institute would release that kind of information if they care about their reputation and want to stay clear of law suits.

 

[Uzor]

Duddits, you should have asked them how they got the updated expiration date while you were on the phone with them. 'cause if someone gave it to them without your permission you can sue them as Mor said. That is unacceptable, especially if it was your bank that gave it to them.

Likely the bank won't know, as it could be someone working there that did it in that case, and they would deny it.

 

[Duddits]

I agree with both of you guys but that really still doesn't explain how Sirius got my new card number. I have had no contact with them whatsoever since I established the account.

Last September my Sirius account was renewed under their "auto-renewal program" and it was done under my old card. January of this year, my bank issued me a new card and changed the last 4 digits of the number, the expiration date and the 3 digit security number on the back and Sirius should not have that info unless I specifically gave it to them which I did not.

My other online accounts with FFXI, Gamefly, WoW and AoC were also set up with reoccurring payments but they couldn't access my bank account when my old card expired and therefore suspended my accounts. What makes Sirius the exception here and how did they get my new number?

I'm printing my bank statements and taking them to my bank today to get an explanation because I find this highly unacceptable.

I have a feeling that they will try to tell me that the only way Sirius could have gotten the new number is if I was the one who gave it to them and I really don't have any way to prove that I didn't. If this is the case, I'll have to ask them to close the account and establish a new one and have them issue me a new card.

I really don't want to do that because then I'll have to deal with VbV when updating my payment info with Playonline so I can keep playing FFXI.

 

[Duddits]

I agree with both of you guys but that really still doesn't explain how Sirius got my new card number. I have had no contact with them whatsoever since I established the account.

Other than yesterday when I called them to cancel my account.