Skadi hands(is there a use?)

[Khajit]

I'm trying to figure out how good they are atm but I don't really know the equations plus sneak/trick attack don't seem to have their formula lying around on a wiki and i'm looking for some help figuring things out as far as how much better they are than alternatives and in what situations.

For TAws af+1 hands gives the equivalent of +12 agi and 3 dex
skadi gives str+5 agi+5 atk+10. The agi mod only affects the first hit of the ws but is substantial while the atk and str of skadi affects the other 5 hits in DE(dual wield adds one extra free hit) quite nicely.


This is literally the only possible use i've found for these hands for a thf that isnt inferior to my other options and even then i dont know if they're the best. It's semi important since if they do suck and are only there for set completion then I can pass on grabbing these and concentrate on other pieces from a different set and/or pass to others with a job that can actually use them.

 

[Necrosis]

I don't bother with AF1+1 outside of TA; I don't TAWS a whole lot in most situations, either. I'd probably use those over any other option including hecatomb for everything else, though (speaking towards weapon skills here). Damage-wise they're probably comparable to, if not better than, hecatomb most of the time. You also don't get the 5/6% slow on your next attack round, which seems pretty inconsequential, but idk. I swap into a few pieces of hecatomb several times a minute.

Bottom line: I'd go for other pieces from other sets first, like you said. Skadi legs, which you have, Skadi body, and Usukane feet/legs/head are the only pretty good/very good pieces (not including set bonuses) of the thf/nin/war sets, iirc.

 

[Khajit]

I don't bother with AF1+1 outside of TA; I don't TAWS a whole lot in most situations, either. I'd probably use those over any other option including hecatomb for everything else, though (speaking towards weapon skills here). Damage-wise they're probably comparable to, if not better than, hecatomb most of the time. You also don't get the 5/6% slow on your next attack round, which seems pretty inconsequential, but idk. I swap into a few pieces of hecatomb several times a minute.

Bottom line: I'd go for other pieces from other sets first, like you said. Skadi legs, which you have, Skadi body, and Usukane feet/legs/head are the only pretty good/very good pieces (not including set bonuses) of the thf/nin/war sets, iirc.

the 5/6% slow point you brought up doesnt even happen. if i did Ta unstacked with hect the slow would take effect but during a TAWS the slow% from hect gear doesnt come into play since it was a WS and not a regular attack round so that "bonus" you suggested doesnt actually exist. I also know that the other sets are nice ect and i'd like to request that i not hear people trying to advise me on which pieces or a different set are good when they're obviously "zomgbbqwtfhaxxx!" and thier usefullness in relation to other options is well documented unlike the skadi hands.

The af+1 vs hect hands on taWS is because the af+1 has only 1 less dex while adding +12 base dmg vs hect doing +2 base dmg at most as a result of the str (and +3 atk). assuming that the 6 str did modify the damage by +2 per hit that's 6x2= 12 base dmg increase vs the12 dmg increase with af+1. while this looks equal one has to also consider that hitting once on trick attack is far more likely than hitting all 6 hits on DE so af+1 gloves win. If i upgrade to af+1 pants and use then (I don't know if they're better yet until i can test them but theoretically they might be if I have cor+drk as i should be reaching 650~700+ atk which then resulting in diminishing returns on atk and making my dusk trousers less useful than before) the af+1 gets even better.

 

[Langly]

http://www.freewebs.com/vzx-01/

This will help you understand the equations. Mainly:

THF Main Sneak Attack and Trick Attack
For THF Main, during the activation of Sneak Attack and Trick Attack, the total DEX and the total AGI of your character is calculated as base damage respectedly.
For Sneak Attack:
Damage = (Base Damage + Total DEX) x critical hit pDIF

For Trick Attack:
Damage = (Base Damage + Total AGI) x [Post 60(assassin): critical hit] pDIF

For Sneak Attack and Trick Attack:
Damage = (Base Damage + Total DEX + Total AGI) x critical hit pDIF

For Sneak Attack and Trick Attack enabled WS:
Damage = ( Base Damage + Total DEX + Total AGI) x critical hit pDIF

Rogue's Armlet+1 gives 15% AGI bonus during trick attack
There are still some consistency check need to be done with Studio Gobli damage calculator

 

[K. Ishitar]

this may seem like a dumb question wouldn't rutters equal to skadi since it's the same stats minus the +3 vit and slow and used only for ws(unstacked?)

Still learning about thf, but just wondering why so many thieves like it versus heca and rutters. And during ws the str has a cap unstacked, but the dex portion never does so it's better to use dex over str if possible? (Info I got from a thf friend I think i messed that stuff up but something to that effect)

assuming that the thieves don't have rutters or heca?

 

[Khajit]

this may seem like a dumb question wouldn't rutters equal to skadi since it's the same stats minus the +3 vit and slow and used only for ws(unstacked?)

Still learning about thf, but just wondering why so many thieves like it versus heca and rutters. And during ws the str has a cap unstacked, but the dex portion never does so it's better to use dex over str if possible? (Info I got from a thf friend I think i messed that stuff up but something to that effect)

assuming that the thieves don't have rutters or heca?

skadi has acc+5 while rutters have 5 atk. generally the acc woud win out but realiztically it's probably more of a sushi vs meat question. hect feet are easily better most of the time so aim for those if you have a sky ls.

While i don't know the actual cap of str/atk for thf i keep hearing that it's so ridiculously hard to reach that no thf should even worth considering the idea that they could reach it(plus as thf you've going to be stacking on dex or acc during ws so the max str you can reasonably get without weakening yourself is naturally going to be lower). I'll have to wade through all the formulae and find out where that database of mob stats is at before I know but if anyone feels like answering what the damned str and atk cap for a thf vs exp mobs(mamool) I'd love to hear it.

 

[Necrosis]

I also know that the other sets are nice ect and i'd like to request that i not hear people trying to advise me on which pieces or a different set are good when they're obviously "zomgbbqwtfhaxxx!" and thier usefullness in relation to other options is well documented unlike the skadi hands.

Ease up there, sport. I didn't mean to insult your obviously extensive salvage knowledge.

the 5/6% slow point you brought up doesnt even happen. if i did Ta unstacked with hect the slow would take effect but during a TAWS the slow% from hect gear doesnt come into play since it was a WS and not a regular attack round so that "bonus" you suggested doesnt actually exist.

Assuming you swap in and out of WS gear before you initiate the next attack round, yeah. Do you wait for SA/TA timers to stack every single WS?

If i upgrade to af+1 pants...

lol

 

[Khajit]

Ease up there, sport. I didn't mean to insult your obviously extensive salvage knowledge.

it's not insulting my salvage knowledge to hear that/ it's merely you spouting off a bunch of well documented info anyone can find as far as their usefulness. the reason i had to ask about the skadi hands is because noone has actually bothered to say how good they were.

Assuming you swap in and out of WS gear before you initiate the next attack round, yeah. Do you wait for SA/TA timers to stack every single WS?

no i don't but if the opportunity presents itself i will stack my WS.

lol

let's see. 4 dmg and ws mods vs 14 atk. normally i'd say the dusk wins but like i mentioned already. 14k atk out of 700 isnt alot so i would probably use those if i had a cor and drk in the pt. shit is situational . +2% atk vs adding 4 bas dmg and modifiers?

 

[Necrosis]

shit is situational.

Recognizing this could have saved you the time of making this thread in the first place.

 

[Khajit]

Recognizing this could have saved you the time of making this thread in the first place.

So because i tried to figure out if there was any situation where it actually did anything I wasted time making said thread?

 

[iaredrew]

CAT FIGHT!!

 

[mdkuser]

I use my skadi hands for WS, and let my hecatomb in storage since i got them.

 

[Phraust]

I'd say Skadi Hands are the close cousin of O.Kote for thief. No, it's not +20 attack, but given thief options for attack gear it's about the same ratio lol... For general use I woudl say these would be great for HNM/Gods in your Str/Att set to get TP. Other than that, they're overshadowed by the importance of haste and Dusk/Homam will definately be a better choice.

One Caviot to that arguemant, on thief, even before SA/TA is calculated, somethign like 50% of my damage comes from 13% of my hits, Crits. So I could see the merit in wearing the full Skadi set. Reports of the bonus seem to lean towards the 10% increase in critical hits... just some eyeball math will tell you that's a massive increase to damage output. But who knows, the same can't really be said for Heart Snatcher. But if you went full Skadi, added enough dex to hit Tier on Crit, offhanded Heart Snatcher and main'd a X's... you could probably lay down something serious: 13 base, 10 skadi, 5 dex tier, 6/2Heart = ~30% crit with a 10% more damage per added from X's. There's a diminishing return on the additional crit gear I would assume, and things tend to look one way on paper yet when applied act differently, so I dont' know...

 

[pchan]

I'd say Skadi Hands are the close cousin of O.Kote for thief. No, it's not +20 attack, but given thief options for attack gear it's about the same ratio lol... For general use I woudl say these would be great for HNM/Gods in your Str/Att set to get TP. Other than that, they're overshadowed by the importance of haste and Dusk/Homam will definately be a better choice.

One Caviot to that arguemant, on thief, even before SA/TA is calculated, somethign like 50% of my damage comes from 13% of my hits, Crits. So I could see the merit in wearing the full Skadi set. Reports of the bonus seem to lean towards the 10% increase in critical hits... just some eyeball math will tell you that's a massive increase to damage output. But who knows, the same can't really be said for Heart Snatcher. But if you went full Skadi, added enough dex to hit Tier on Crit, offhanded Heart Snatcher and main'd a X's... you could probably lay down something serious: 13 base, 10 skadi, 5 dex tier, 6/2Heart = ~30% crit with a 10% more damage per added from X's. There's a diminishing return on the additional crit gear I would assume, and things tend to look one way on paper yet when applied act differently, so I dont' know...

First time I see mention of the set bonus being 10%. Everyione has been assuming it's 5% like other set (5% DA, MAB5, 5% haste..)

 

[Khajit]

I'd say Skadi Hands are the close cousin of O.Kote for thief. No, it's not +20 attack, but given thief options for attack gear it's about the same ratio lol... For general use I woudl say these would be great for HNM/Gods in your Str/Att set to get TP. Other than that, they're overshadowed by the importance of haste and Dusk/Homam will definately be a better choice.

One Caviot to that arguemant, on thief, even before SA/TA is calculated, somethign like 50% of my damage comes from 13% of my hits, Crits. So I could see the merit in wearing the full Skadi set. Reports of the bonus seem to lean towards the 10% increase in critical hits... just some eyeball math will tell you that's a massive increase to damage output. But who knows, the same can't really be said for Heart Snatcher. But if you went full Skadi, added enough dex to hit Tier on Crit, offhanded Heart Snatcher and main'd a X's... you could probably lay down something serious: 13 base, 10 skadi, 5 dex tier, 6/2Heart = ~30% crit with a 10% more damage per added from X's. There's a diminishing return on the additional crit gear I would assume, and things tend to look one way on paper yet when applied act differently, so I dont' know...

I already considered the tp idea for high defense god/hnm class monsters and in all honesty the following adds a difference of 0~0.5 atk for far less hassle. The only difference is that some of the atk comes in the form of str instead of being a straight att+ mod.
http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=14074&sid=6
The crit idea is interesting and i considered something like that for evisceration with x's knife as a use but so far i'm leaving that on the backburner.
if i needed atk enough to use skadi hands for +atk i'd probably be /war instead as well.

 

[K. Ishitar]

isn't the crit chance on evis easy to hit? i know the chance stays the same regardless of tp. Wouldn't a crit DE be better or AC SB for that matter

 

[Khajit]

isn't the crit chance on evis easy to hit? i know the chance stays the same regardless of tp. Wouldn't a crit DE be better or AC SB for that matter

Evisceration has a higher chance to crit based on tp.
if a Ws doesnt have a crit mod based on tp then it cant crit without outside help (aka mighty strikes or sneak/trick attack)Trick/sneak attack also only does a crit to the first hit.
I personally dont kow how easy it is to hit but i have heard of thieves doing 1kws on fafnir with x's knife(unbuffed?) thanks to the crit ftp bonus it gives.

 

[Redshift]

Assuming you're using Blau mainhand and meriting at the best place for THFs (Greater Colibri)

Blau is a rank 2 weapon (26/9 floored = 2), and upper fSTR cap on Greater Colibri is (2+8 )4-4+67=103 STR. Since Dancing Edge only has 30%DEX 40%CHR mods, after that you're just adding ATK to your WS. 103 STR isn't very difficult to get as THF either. I would definitely put my money on AF+1 hands over Skadi, unless your gear is really lacking

 

[Khajit]

What's the cap on mighty knife? is it based on the latent DMG or the or the default dmg?
I seem to reach 99~100str with food during TAWS while it's not quite there it seems close enough. 103 str means my unstacked DE has too much str and i'll probably drop some str for acc in 1-2 slots.
What's the str cap for mamools? I tend to avoid colibri like the plague since it's overcrowded and the first thing a person says is lolcolibri if i beat em on a parse even if i give the other players a 25% handicap. I've been to colibri once in the last 6~8 months.

 

[Redshift]

I don't know why you'd avoid Colibri as a THF, considering it's the best place to win parses because of the piercing bonus. Even then, I parsed very similar to Mandau THF by just spamming evisceration using a Blau/Joy set up on my WAR (was only fooling around too). It's much too easy on WAR to completely over hit the STR cap for Great Colibri using that set up, even while using a lot of DEX gear like Love Torque, Thunder Ring, Pixie Earring, etc.

Also, I'm 95% sure that Mighty Knife's weapon rank is still only two because only permanent latents (senj, destroyers, etc) have their new DMG accounted for in weapon rank. I ask VZX to be certain though.

Equation is; (yourSTR - monsterVIT + 4)/4 = fSTR. Upper cap of fSTR is weapon rank + 8. I can only find Lurker, Stabler and Blusterer VIT values but all of them are 77. So upper fSTR cap on those monsters for a rank 2 weapon is (2+8 )4 -4 +77 = 113 STR