Flameass said:
LMAO!!! :lol: :lol: Wow, that's a little incomplete isn't it?
Skillchain chart needed (specifications inside)
- Thread starter Koutetsu
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LMAO!!! :lol: :lol: Wow, that's a little incomplete isn't it?
Rommie said:This one is my favorite by far (BLM and SAM mains, so I live by it).
The only thing arguably missing are the Pacts but after you remember the element of each Pact, that's really a non-issue.
Prints very nicely on pretty much anything you want it printed on
http://home.comcast.net/~hartwickc/renkei3.gif
I'd say that's even more confusing than Aden's chart...
Plus, withou the BPs on there, it's difficult. Not all the BPs are in the corresponding element. For example, Fenrir's Crescent Fang is Transfixion element, Titan's Rock Buster is Reverberation, Ifrit's Double Punch is Compression, etc.
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Sethala said:
What I like about that chart is that it goes to the heart of the Skillchain system which is the elements and not the Weapon Skills themselves.
Most other charts I've seen are very focused on which WS chain with each other and all too often I see people in parties that "know" maybe 4-6 SCs by heart and not really know what's going on behind them.
After understanding the table in that guide, it becomes very easy to "adlib" SCs and MBs if the situation calls for it. For example, say the party is doing a very traditional Enpi -> Retsu on a gob, but suddenly the little sucker goes for a bomb and the SAM fires a Hobaku to avoid the AoE damage. Now, if the nin is used to "traditional" skillchains, he has never done Hobaku -> Teki because they both suck for damage, but if he knows his elements and sees the SAM going with Induration, he can close with Teki for a very respectable Fragmentation and a lovely Thunder MB if the blm also knows his stuff and quickly recognizes what's going on.
I guess my point is, knowing "generic" SCs or using a guide to determine the best SCs for a certain configuration is usually just fine and we can all live with it. But knowing how the system really works and being able to adlib on demand gives you a little edge that never hurts 8)
The point about the Pacts being missing is certainly taken and I wish they would release a new version with them included. What I meant before is that there are not too many of them and so it tends to be easy to remember them.
Yeah, I know what you mean about knowing what WSs chain with each other. But, there's only two problems with your example:
1. Using that chart, after seeing the SAM use Hobaku, you need to figure out what WS to use. So, you need to find Hobaku on the chart, see what elements it can chain with, then see what you can use that's in those boxes. All within the few seconds you get to do a second WS. Oh, and you've also gotta do your normal NIN stuff. It's not very practical to try that unless you've got your SC chart memorized.
2. You can do pretty much the exact same thing using Aden's chart. The only real difference between the two charts is that one lists all the WSs to the side, while the other lists them all inside the boxes that make the chart.
Oh, and I think it's a lot easier to read what boxes connect with others on Aden's chart - he's got it formatted so that none of the arrows overlap. And level 2 SCs are kinda hard to see on that chart - took me a few minutes to find them, and that was only after comparing the chart to Aden's.
1. Using that chart, after seeing the SAM use Hobaku, you need to figure out what WS to use. So, you need to find Hobaku on the chart, see what elements it can chain with, then see what you can use that's in those boxes. All within the few seconds you get to do a second WS. Oh, and you've also gotta do your normal NIN stuff. It's not very practical to try that unless you've got your SC chart memorized.
2. You can do pretty much the exact same thing using Aden's chart. The only real difference between the two charts is that one lists all the WSs to the side, while the other lists them all inside the boxes that make the chart.
Oh, and I think it's a lot easier to read what boxes connect with others on Aden's chart - he's got it formatted so that none of the arrows overlap. And level 2 SCs are kinda hard to see on that chart - took me a few minutes to find them, and that was only after comparing the chart to Aden's.
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Sethala said:
That's actually what I was advocating for
Memorize the diagram and then your weapons. After that, just a quick peek when you start with the party and see what weapons other people have should get you ready. There's also the fact that several weapons favor a certain element, and certain WS are aptly named, so most of the time you can make an "educated guess" on the spot even if you don't remember the exact elements.
If you think about the WSs in terms of elements, you also pick it up as you go seeing different weapons in different parties.
Sethala said:
Oh, certainly. I never said you couldn't, only that I prefer this guide because it forces you to think about the elements instead of relying on the "position" of the WS in the chart.
Ultimately, I guess it's a matter of personal taste and thankfully there are several guides to go around so we can all be happy