Some questions regarding war wielding axe/sword

lionsheart

lionsheart

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Hello there,

I know this had been discussed before, but I really have a hard time looking for that thread started by jamal, flaming wars using axe/joytoy in merits. I think the conclusion of that thread was a fully merited axe/axe war, with max DA merits will toast axe/joy user in merits.


But what about pre-merit?



I had been using joytoy off hand since 70 and to be frank, I like this a lot. Much faster TP gain than francisca/tungi, and tungi is already the lowest delay 1 handed axe. And from parses it seemed axe/joy combo isn't bad at all, in fact it was pretty impressive. I was able to beat players 2 lvl above me with this combo. So I am wondering, should I really convert to woods/man right at 73? Or actually pre-merit both combo are about the same?

Would love to see some opinions from you veterans, also would appreciate if any can find any link on qcdn regarding this joytoy debate. =)
 
Axe/Ridill
Axe/Axe
Axe/Joy

Joy sucks for WAR has it has 1-2 attacks and a weak damage. Getting more double attacks in it. Makes less single attacks and double attacks that it procs so your double attack merits are only good on your axe.
Axe/Axe kicks ass both hit strong and work great as its a A- skill

Axe/Ridill only works if got 8 sword merits, supperninja earring, and helps to have the +7 skill neck from sea. As your sword skill is not up to par with a PLD. But more double attacks merits the better here as ridill's number of double attacks is @ 50% 25% for single anf 25% for 3

any way gtg [time for work!] guess what i work? ^^;
NA to EU switch over
 
delsus said:
Axe/Ridill
Axe/Axe
Axe/Joy

Joy sucks for WAR has it has 1-2 attacks and a weak damage. Getting more double attacks in it. Makes less single attacks and double attacks that it procs so your double attack merits are only good on your axe.
Axe/Axe kicks ass both hit strong and work great as its a A- skill

Axe/Ridill only works if got 8 sword merits, supperninja earring, and helps to have the +7 skill neck from sea. As your sword skill is not up to par with a PLD. But more double attacks merits the better here as ridill's number of double attacks is @ 50% 25% for single anf 25% for 3

any way gtg [time for work!] guess what i work? ^^;
NA to EU switch over
Click to expand...
I want that torque since ive been sea 2 torque have yet to drop that one and the axe skill one. pretty much what he said sword skill on war is lower then axe so you dmg is going to be pentalized. Though joy toy is fun to play with.
 
hellstorm said:
I want that torque since ive been sea 2 torque have yet to drop that one and the axe skill one. pretty much what he said sword skill on war is lower then axe so you dmg is going to be pentalized. Though joy toy is fun to play with.
Click to expand...
not just your damage but your Acc

Only ever lved WAR to 70 but i only lved it with HQ gear (expect huberk) and never should a war use joy toy unless they are going Ridill/joytoy then you do not have a single double attack merit go for zerk/agr ONLY
That will help so much more.
 
I'd say it depends what you are fighting. ALOT of mobs in ToAU are weak to piercing, so joyeuse holds its own decently in damage. Also, VT and T, joyeuse doesnt get penalized as bad because of the low skill. On somthing like trolls, Axe/Axe would prolly be better, especially without full sword merits. No reason you cant have em both, end game is all about having different sets of gear for different situations. If you really need to pick one, I'd say axe/axe.

And gogo juggernaut if you really wanna beat down some shit with axe :P Attack with man/juggs is fun.
 
That was a pretty useless thread, considering no one posted parsed results. In fact, I've seen parsed results that say otherwise about how joyeuse compares to axe on the off-hand. My suspicion is that it was simply another one of jamal's "rawr I'm cool because I have ridill" vanity threads.
 
Bottom line is, if you are geared well and fully merited, the difference between axe/axe and axe/joy is not going to me some enormous difference unless you are fighting somthing extremely high lvl or that resists piercing. Parses are not always end all be all either, lag can screw with the results, and there are a fuck ton of variables that will affect results. Both can be good if used correctly. Alot of people enjoy joyeuse more because of the fast attacking and tp gain. Some like axe/axe for the big numbers, etc.

Also, it depends on your available combat skill merits. I know you're a thf. Axe/sword combo typically needs to be merited on both axe and some sword. With those two merited, it typically leaves little to no room for other weapon/ability merits. Thats why, since I had the 8 katana and 4 evasion merits, I chose to stick with axe/axe so I only had one weapon to merit for warrior and wouldnt have to gimp my nin merits by as much compared to if i had to merit axe and sword.
 
The results I saw indicated between a 5%-10% advantage for the joyeuse, pre aht urghan. That's pretty big in my books, but that's up to each player to decide.

You really can't use lag as an excuse when you actually log data in units of hours.

However, I totally agree it's up to the player what he wants to do. I mean, we're not talking about wars standing back and using bows or anything here. Hell, a lot of wars don't even have the option of using a joyeuse.
 
metachronism said:
The results I saw indicated between a 5%-10% advantage for the joyeuse, pre aht urghan. That's pretty big in my books, but that's up to each player to decide.

You really can't use lag as an excuse when you actually log data in units of hours.

However, I totally agree it's up to the player what he wants to do. I mean, we're not talking about wars standing back and using bows or anything here. Hell, a lot of wars don't even have the option of using a joyeuse.
Click to expand...

IIRC Jamal's testing put Axe/Axe above Axe/Joy even with an optimal Axe/Joy setup. While a good, cheap alternative, don't delude yourself into thinking that it is as good as Man/Jugg or other endgame axe/axe setup.
 
dedalius said:
IIRC Jamal's testing put Axe/Axe above Axe/Joy even with an optimal Axe/Joy setup. While a good, cheap alternative, don't delude yourself into thinking that it is as good as Man/Jugg or other endgame axe/axe setup.
Click to expand...
Other end game axe/axe

After you got maneater/jug only 2 things better is relic G axe and maneater/ridill other endgame axes? hmm maybe that woodville axe... but its still crap or. bst/nin with relic axe but only 2 of those are on FFXI
 
dedalius said:
IIRC Jamal's testing put Axe/Axe above Axe/Joy even with an optimal Axe/Joy setup. While a good, cheap alternative, don't delude yourself into thinking that it is as good as Man/Jugg or other endgame axe/axe setup.
Click to expand...

It was one parce which only showed 20 damage decrease with the joyeuse. Not exactly definitive proof.
 
Lavi said:
It was one parce which only showed 20 damage decrease with the joyeuse. Not exactly definitive proof.
Click to expand...

So prove it wrong. Optimal sword setup vs. poor axe setup, and the results were equal.
 
dedalius said:
So prove it wrong. Optimal sword setup vs. poor axe setup, and the results were equal.
Click to expand...

I've seen plenty of parses where equaly geared wars were beaten handedly by joyeuse. Ive seen as many where I've beaten joyeuse wars with axe axe. To use one parse from one person as the word of god is ignorance at its finest. They are both good, they can both be good, different situations and players means different setups. Is it so hard to understand this point? Most gear out there is never the best for everything.
 
Zoolander said:
I've seen plenty of parses where equaly geared wars were beaten handedly by joyeuse. Ive seen as many where I've beaten joyeuse wars with axe axe. To use one parse from one person as the word of god is ignorance at its finest. They are both good, they can both be good, different situations and players means different setups. Is it so hard to understand this point? Most gear out there is never the best for everything.
Click to expand...

Don't take this as Axe/Joy doesn't have its purpose, because it does.
 
Ok, quick visit from the flame forum.

I think if you use joy sword offhand, and enjoy it, stick with it. axe/joy
can be competitive with axe/axe, although axe/axe will always scale
better with harder mobs (such as the much hated HNMs and other NMs).
Obviously axe/joy also has got a faster pace rythm to it which many
people enjoy, and might fit your playing style better.


Also try out Woodville's if you sometime get Juggernaut in offhand. Rampage
will never bee the same without good ol' Woodster!

I MISS IT!
 
Zoolander said:
Bottom line is, if you are geared well and fully merited, the difference between axe/axe and axe/joy is not going to me some enormous difference unless you are fighting somthing extremely high lvl or that resists piercing. Parses are not always end all be all either, lag can screw with the results, and there are a fuck ton of variables that will affect results. Both can be good if used correctly. Alot of people enjoy joyeuse more because of the fast attacking and tp gain. Some like axe/axe for the big numbers, etc.

Also, it depends on your available combat skill merits. I know you're a thf. Axe/sword combo typically needs to be merited on both axe and some sword. With those two merited, it typically leaves little to no room for other weapon/ability merits. Thats why, since I had the 8 katana and 4 evasion merits, I chose to stick with axe/axe so I only had one weapon to merit for warrior and wouldnt have to gimp my nin merits by as much compared to if i had to merit axe and sword.
Click to expand...


Thx guys for all the response, and especially makel for that quick link =) that's what i was looking for. However that thread didn't have a solid conclusion tho.

Zoo's advice really nails the point. Since I dun think i can spare that much merits into war, (Prolly 4 merits tops coz i refuse to remove my dagger merits ^^) I think I will go to the axe axe road. After hitting 73, the axe/joy combo still comes up on top but I think it won't be that easy when I get to merit with decent and correctly equiped players.

I have to admit that joyeuse is really a fun weapon to wield tho and I really love it. =)

I will try to parse both combos (wood/mane, and mane/joy). At the moment i think wood/joy is prolly better coz I find myself sitting at 150%+ tp a lot of time causing mane's latent not being active. But this situation should change soon after I dinged 74. The fun just began after hitting 73 and for a long time in a while I really look forward to EXP now heh.
 
Bjornar said:
Obviously axe/joy also has got a faster pace rythm to it which many
people enjoy, and might fit your playing style better.
Click to expand...

Yeah still not too used to the long delay of axe/axe, but axe/joy is prolly a better combo in mire.

Bjornar said:
Also try out Woodville's if you sometime get Juggernaut in offhand. Rampage
will never bee the same without good ol' Woodster!

I MISS IT!
Click to expand...

>.> speaking from someone who has mcridill.
 
Bj just likes the e-peen numbers :P

Yea, joyeuse would prolly be best used in mire, really the only place I wish I had a joyeuse. And since the mobs there are weak as shit, cant imagine the lower sword skill would make much of a difference.
 
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