Sour Grapes.

[Raesvelg]

To segue onward from some of the elements in my last post, perhaps to become an entire series entitled "You People Make No Goddamn Sense", I'll touch on the subject of sour grapes.

I don't get it.

It's something I see a lot, to be honest, and while I understand the underlying psychology behind it, it's still just weird as hell to me.

Take MMOs for example. I know people who spent hundreds of days logged in to FFXI, and who, after quitting the game, simply say "That game sucks. It's always sucked, and it will always suck", and it boggles my mind. You mean to tell me that you spent 15% of the last 3 years of your life doing something that sucked? Voluntarily?!?! I mean, sure, you can have a job, quit it afterward and say "That job sucked", and in my eyes you'll be okay, so long as you add the necessary conditional statements like "but the pay was good", or "but the work was easy".

But seriously.

Some people apply this to everything. Doesn't matter what it is, material objects, relationships, etc etc etc. Anything that they no longer have? Sucks. Is terrible. Is worthless. Never wanted it to begin with. Etc, etc etc. Obviously you did want it, and it was not worthless, or you never would have gone to the trouble of getting it in the first place.

Now, like I said, I understand the underlying psychology to it. By devaluing something that they no longer have, even if they're the ones who threw it away, they lessen the feeling of loss that they suffer, particularly in people who are inherently acquisitive or competitive. But that's just lying to yourself, and that makes no fucking sense.

I don't much care for lying. It's up there as Raes' Rule #3: Never Lie. But I understand lying to other people, because then there's some measure of gain. But lying to yourself? There's nothing to be gained there. At all. Ever. The only thing that occurs is to set yourself up for repeated failure.

Of course, there's a secondary aspect to the lying inherent in sour grapes statements, specifically in the preservation of social standing. It's somewhat like the kids who can't follow the lesson in school, and instead of admitting it to the teacher or seeking tutoring, act out in class, throw paper, and so on. It's better to be "the rebel" than "the idiot", after all. Some sour grapes are like that; rather than admit that they made a mistake in getting rid of something, they'll publicly devalue it, thus attempting to counter any potential erosion in their social status. They're not lying to themselves, per se, but rather to others in an attempt to save face. But that, in my experience, happens substantially less often than the self-deceptive angle to the practice.

I'd hate to call myself an Objectivist, mostly because I believe that Ayn Rand is burning somewhere in the 8th Circle of Hell, but I do hold that looking at things in an objective manner is about as essential to living an... honest life as anything else you can imagine. Which is probably why, sometimes, you people make no goddamn sense. Because it often seems like most people couldn't recognize an objective perspective if it jumped on their groin and clawed its way up their urethra like some sort of sentient, fanged urinary tract infection.

 

[Tristam Green]

That game sucked.



Just kidding. If I could get my money back, I would, to be sure, but I would never go so far as to say that Final fantasy XI sucked outright - I had a hell of a lot of fun playing it. I just won't spend more money on another MMO, as it would defeat the purpose of quitting the first one, in my sight.

 

[Xalioniaf]

Man, I'm super guilty of this (it's worse than guilty. Minimum punishment is ten years of painful nonstop tickling).
Maybe not with XI in particular, though. Even though I still technically play, it's not nearly as much as I used to, and I'd like to think if given the opportunity I'd go through it all over again. Not for the game itself (which can range from decent to downright rage-inducing), but for the people I met and the relationships I formed throughout the years.

 

[Takumifujiwara]

At the heart of the matter Raes, were all liars. We lie to ourselves daily in some way shape or form. Its the flaw built into us that makes us human. What also makes us human is the capability to be honest as well. If your asking people to be 100% honest your also asking them to no longer be human.

You hit it on the head with the comment about "by devaluing something that they no longer have, even if they're the ones who threw it away, they lessen the feeling of loss that they suffer, particularly in people who are inherently acquisitive or competitive." That's just the truth.

Take back my time/money from FFXI? No. I met too many friends and learned some things along the way. If folks didn't take anything from all the years they played, then I think that's a different case study for the reason people play games.

I have stolen enough of your blog lol. Just my perspective on said matter.

 

[Ecks]

I'm guilty of saying things like this. But it's usually just a brief statement made without any real thought put into it. Instead negative feelings created it and so saying something as easy as 'That sucked.' is perhaps the simplest form of communicating that expression. Well, and it's a fairly common phrase. I'd be lying if I didn't go on about how FFXI sucked for a little bit of time after I quit, and pointed out all the things I didn't like about it. But in all honesty I did have fun playing the game for a long time or else I obviously wouldn't have spent 4-5 years playing it. The circumstances for my finally leaving were unpleasant though, and dampened a lot of the enjoyment I had for the game. Game mechanics were a huge part in why I decided to finally quit, but not the sole reason. Pretty much it was a bunch of reasons and it just took one good hit with the hammer to drive the final nail into the coffin. Before that though, I never wanted to quit. Partially because I had invested so much time and effort into my character it wasn't something I wanted to give up easily.

As far as not wanting to play any more mmo's well that's your prerogative TG. If I can ever find one that satisfies what I want with my spare time, then that's the one I'll stick with. I'm usually against playing multiple mmos though (however atm I am paying for 2 and playing a free one as well), but I'm breaking that at the moment due to a friend that got me playing some other mmos with him. (though to be fair, I'll probably be canceling at least one of the pay to play mmos here pretty soon)

 

[Tristam Green]

Paying for an MMO is not synonymous with playing an MMO, Ecks.

Stine finally did the math yesterday on how much she spent on FFXI alone. I spent 66% of what she did, so together we had close to $2000 time spent in a game. It's pretty disheartening to think how much on home improvement, or home-buying, or other necessities we could have spent that money at the time. $14 a month doesn't really seem like much until hindsight kicks you in the teeth.

Now, the caveat here is that I can think its disheartening in hindsight, but that doesn't mean I actually *would* have spent the money on necessities. Chances are that $14 a month would have gone to movies or music or comic books.

I'll say it again since it seems to have fallen on a hard head: Did I find my time in FFXI fun? Yes. Do I find it fulfilling in any way? Possibly. It fulfilled a basic need to socialize, but that's about it, and it nearly cost me and Stine our marriage at an early stage, as we were talking to our FFXI friends more than we were each other, just about. Do I want to go through the rigamarole of paying for what is effectively the same game, with updated graphics and the names-changed to protect the innocent? Not on your life.