Xbox360 Splinter Cell ~Conviction~

iNoScopedJFK said:
I don't appreciate that sass...

...you're lucky you're hot.

But yeah, this Splinter Cell game looks pretty sick. I just don't think it'll compare graphically or even in terms of gameplay with what Metal Gear Solid 4 had on the PS3.
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I agree with this pretty much. Splinter Cell does look good but will not have as much going on as MGS4 did.

Splinter Cell has always been clunky to me as has MGS.. However MGS4 was very very fluid and the shooting aspect was very much improved from past games. I do not think this Splinter Cell will take the same leap in gameplay tweaks that MGS4 did.

EDIT: Gerry.. You sure you are not some comedian in hiding on these forums?
 
TheOsyris said:
I agree with this pretty much. Splinter Cell does look good but will not have as much going on as MGS4 did.

Splinter Cell has always been clunky to me as has MGS.. However MGS4 was very very fluid and the shooting aspect was very much improved from past games. I do not think this Splinter Cell will take the same leap in gameplay tweaks that MGS4 did.

EDIT: Gerry.. You sure you are not some comedian in hiding on these forums?
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If your referring to when I hated the 360, I should note E3 changed my perspective because MS had actually impressed me enough to give them a second chance.

Edit: Also I can't tell a joke to save my life >_>
 
Love the Stealth Action genre, absolutely love it. As far as past Splinter Cell games go, I haven't played one I truly enjoyed. I am, however, lookin' forward to seein' how this game turns out. While playin' Assassin's Creed I was hopin' the entire time that Ubisoft gets how it's done now for the Splinter Cell series. Double Agent is just fuckin' awful so it can't be any worse than that for sure.
 
I tried the older Splinter Cell games out but for some reason I always just lose interest. I think the last one I played I was escaping from a prison or something. I'm not sure but I usually get the feeling that I'm moving around based on carefully scripted movements, and instead of figuring out how to get by based on observation and tact, you need to just blunder your way by. MGS isn't perfect, and they both as a series have their control issues, but MGS at least feels like you're a character in a real world dealing with real reactions as opposed to a game character who has to step on the right squares. But I'm always willing to try the demo and see if there feels like improvement.
 
He thinks saying that will make him look less like a fanboy :)
 
I have had this on reserve since last year in the Spring. I am a huge fan of stealth games. I really prefer this to MGS because to me it really requires being stealthy and not just running and gunning. No offense but also hiding in a box or barrel? Come on the enemy isn't going to notice that the box is sitting 20 feet from where he last saw it come on.
 
I don't consider MGS stealth. You don't die or really get penalized from runnin' and gunnin'. Maybe the first one and substance, -maybe-, but not the last two. When I think Stealth I think about games like Tenchu (All of them), the recent Velvet assassin, and games that make you play by the rules or become brutally unforgiving.
 
Strid said:
I don't consider MGS stealth. You don't die or really get penalized from runnin' and gunnin'. Maybe the first one and substance, -maybe-, but not the last two. When I think Stealth I think about games like Tenchu (All of them), the recent Velvet assassin, and games that make you play by the rules or become brutally unforgiving.
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Now this is a huge argument i have with MGS fans. I beat MGS4 in just over 2 hours by running... Not even running and gunning. Just running. I only shot when there was no other way to zone, like boss fights. I think i could do it faster, and yes it was a very bad way to play the game.. Why give me the option? Bad level design.

MGS fans claim i am playing the game wrong... I understand hard core MGS fans choose to play with stealth. I approach the game very different and use any advantage i can, like running to the next zone with a full red alert on me.

If it were a stealth game i wouldnt be able to survive that way, Period.

On the topic, i am so thrilled they are taking this very refreshing new look into Splinter Cell. The last game was horrid.
 
See the problem is the stealth genre is ill defined. I look at it not based on potential playing styles but the way that the AI works, which is that they try to mimic reality in that they can "see you" or "hear you" and investigate. They can be fought... or snuck past, with varying levels of success based on the level design, your arsenal, your skills and your equipment. If you can shoot, and shoot well, players who are expert FPS can take advantage of this. If you take that ability away, the game is called clunky. If it remains, it's stated that it makes it fail as stealth because you have other options.

To me, it feels like the problem here is the gamer, and not trying to act like a dick but take the designers perspective. You're given the option to play it as you wish, and if you choose to play it in such a way that's less fun to you, you then blame the game. Furthermore, there's difficulty choices that make the more aggressive strategies impossible for most players.

Trying to find a perfect balance is impossible, not because it hasn't been done, but because it's impossible. If it's possible to win with guns, then there is going to be a population of heavy FPS playing gamers that will make it feel easy. If it's clunky and slow to them, it's impossible for normal players.

I feel like for most players, who aren't adept at finding the best strategy and performing it flawlessly, MGS4 functions perfectly. For the hardcore, there are more difficult modes. For myself, I find it hard to beat it at all on the difficult mode, let alone trying to beat it without getting any kills or trying to beat it going rambo. I just kill when I have to, and sneak when I can. I feel like that's where it's the most fun and where 95% of the players who played it wound up.
 
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Firestreak said:
See the problem is the stealth genre is ill defined. I look at it not based on potential playing styles but the way that the AI works, which is that they try to mimic reality in that they can "see you" or "hear you" and investigate. They can be fought... or snuck past, with varying levels of success based on the level design, your arsenal, your skills and your equipment. If you can shoot, and shoot well, players who are expert FPS can take advantage of this. If you take that ability away, the game is called clunky. If it remains, it's stated that it makes it fail as stealth because you have other options.

To me, it feels like the problem here is the gamer, and not trying to act like a dick but take the designers perspective. You're given the option to play it as you wish, and if you choose to play it in such a way that's less fun to you, you then blame the game. Furthermore, there's difficulty choices that make the more aggressive strategies impossible for most players.

Trying to find a perfect balance is impossible, not because it hasn't been done, but because it's impossible. If it's possible to win with guns, then there is going to be a population of heavy FPS playing gamers that will make it feel easy. If it's clunky and slow to them, it's impossible for normal players.

I feel like for most players, who aren't adept at finding the best strategy and performing it flawlessly, MGS4 functions perfectly. For the hardcore, there are more difficult modes. For myself, I find it hard to beat it at all on the difficult mode, let alone trying to beat it without getting any kills or trying to beat it going rambo. I just kill when I have to, and sneak when I can. I feel like that's where it's the most fun and where 95% of the players who played it wound up.
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I don't know. I understand having the option to be a more aggressive agent is great and all, but if the game is supposed to be stealth based I think the options should be limited. I could easily run through the game gunnin or go for a full stealth approach. But it being stealth based the equipment, tactics, AI and overall game approach should be limited to stealth options. IF then you have a difficult time, stealth games are probably not your best bet.

The entire purpose behind most stealth based games is to complete the missions with as little detection and disruption as possible, if you have the option to go in 'Rambo" style and blow earth to high hell... well, you've ruined the concept of the game imo.
 
I feel like the more options, the more choices available to you... the better. If you want to play it the stealth way, you CAN play it the stealth way. There are even awards based on have stealthy you are, and as such you can consider getting these awards the "point" of the game, if you need something more than intrinsic motivation. Stifling choice in an effort to define gameplay more tightly seems like a less than ideal solution. I'd say there should be different "modes" such as stealth heavy, where bullets kill you really fast, and action heavy, where it's much harder to get undetected... but people are still going to complain.. cause they'll end up with a shooter that purely as a shooter doesn't hold up against dedicated FPS, and a stealth game that's too difficult for the majority of gamers. So I don't know, I find this world where you can kill if you get caught good, because I can play exactly how I prefer to.

Ironically, I find it kind of funny that when I tried splinter cell I felt like I was "watching a movie" rather than playing a game, the most common complaint leveled at MGS. While MGS contains an obscene amount of cutscenes, the gameplay is very loose and full of choices. Splinter Cell on the other hand felt very stifling, I had to follow the exact course that the game makers wanted me to, or I lost. It was linear. Hopefully this new one breaks away from that, we'll see.
 
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Ahh a bit of free roam or a multiple avenue approach, that's a valid complaint. Although I was not disappointed with Splinter Cells (but for Doubt Agent) multiple avenues in which to complete / fulfill an objective would be nice. But I still think all options should remain stealth based lol.

I know with many games I've played where the avenue is laid out in front of you I've ended up pretty disappointed overall with the game. Cheated almost. I really like a lot of detail in my games, small details and multiple that includes the paths to finish the mission or quest your on.

This Splinter Cell, judging by the trailer, already looks as though it'll have a lot more game play options in it.

Though I'm not a huuuge fan of the autoaim function, although helpful and pretty sweet (a highly skilled undercover agent SHOULD be a one/two shot killer) I like the challenge, again sneaking and lining my kills up unbenounced to them.
 
I have never been a splinter cell fan, then i played Double Agent and i loved it, I have been anxiously awaiting this one since i first saw a magazine article where they talked about how much effort they put into making such a simple motion as picking up and throwing a chair look as real as possible.
 
Wow really. So you're the black sheep kinda. It was Double Agent that made you think twice of SC games! I still beat it, though I didn't enjoy Double Agent as much as the others, felt it was lacking in a couple areas.

Good that you've come over to the dark side though :ph34r:
 
well more of the reason why i wasn't a fan, i did play i believe the first one back in the day, just back then i wasnt in to those kind of games, I was hardcore RPG all the time, i didnt even like shooters back then!
 
Chasym said:
well more of the reason why i wasn't a fan, i did play i believe the first one back in the day, just back then i wasnt in to those kind of games, I was hardcore RPG all the time, i didnt even like shooters back then!
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Well like I said, welcome to the dark side!! =)

Glad to have ya with us.

Now... you could pick up the older Splinter Cells and get a good appreciation for the wonder that is Sam ;p
 
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