Stop buying Ulli stones, you *#%*tards

metachronism said:
It's pretty clear from what people are posting that these autumnstone-buying LSs aren't taking much care to investigate whether the sellers are RMT or not.
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the next time i buy something from a level 1 mule -- i'll make sure to look you up for a background check on the player.

thanks!
 
metachronism said:
Very few people are opposing the idea itself of buying the trigger. I personally don't see anything wrong with such a transaction between REAL PLAYERS.

Where most take up issues is the fact that it is an item where the RMT dominates the market. It's pretty clear from what people are posting that these autumnstone-buying LSs aren't taking much care to investigate whether the sellers are RMT or not.

And I say, if that's the case, fine. Keep buying. But don't fucking play dumb and pretend you have no clue where it came from. Unless you conscientiously look for non-RMT sellers, you are MORE LIKELY THAN NOT feeding the RMTs.

As long as you buy indiscriminately, you *will* face accusations. If you don't want that, there's a simple solution. Get it yourself. But if you consider it a "waste of time", then the hidden tax on that 6M or whatever you pay for that autumnstone is the scorn and contempt of the people who are opposed to RMT. If that doesn't matter to you, go empty out batallia of all autumnstones to your heart's content.

In the end, it comes down to this: You have the option to save time, or face. Take your pick. It looks to me like you can't have both though.
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Kaizen said several times that they don't buy if the seller is obviously an RMT, and that they do look for non-RMT sellers for their stones. There are plenty of mules in BD that you can't tell who owns it, and that's where people are bitching. Apparently, you have to know everyone who plays the game and all of their mules to not be a supporter of RMT.
 
Tomasello said:
I understand how the AH works. When you don't know whose undercutting who in the AH and whose selling what then yes it is pretty random. And if you don't know who muleA muleB or muleC is then maybe you shouldn't buy from any of them. There's plenty of legitimate bazaars out there. If you don't even try to establish some /anon's identity then really, why not go directly to the RMT? Because you don't care either way who your buying from.
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Yet the problem is MuleA, MuleB, and MuleC are the only ones with the stone in their bazaar. They are all at 5.3M. 33.33% chance of getting the legit stone, 66.66% chance of getting the seller stone. Everything you choose to do is a gamble, in real life and in the game. Kaizen just chooses to gamble with Autumnstones as you do Ochidu's kote and Fuma Kayhan.
 
What you guys are arguing is basically a "don't ask, don't tell policy."

You don't know who they are and frankly you don't wanna know just shut up go /anon and sell me the stone?

It keeps the RMT's in business whether you guys like it or not. Just because you won't buy from Gilsellerlarry but Mikehunt is ok "cause I don't know who he is" doesn't make what you do 100% valid.
 
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Tomasello said:
What you guys are arguing is basically a "don't ask, don't tell policy."

You don't know who they are and frankly you don't wanna know just shut up go /anon and sell me the stone?

It keeps the RMT's in business whether you guys like it or not. Just because you won't buy from Gilsellerlarry but Mikehunt is ok "cause I don't know who he is" doesn't make what you do 100% valid.
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If there was someone to ask, I'd ask; stop acting like we want them to be RMT. It's more of a "no way in hell to find out, so who cares," policy. I'd like to know who I'm buying from, but until there is a way to find out, there's nothing wrong with buying from a legit-looking bazaar.

Yes, it keeps the RMT in business, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of money they make off the AH; but then, that's ok because it's anonymous.
 
Tomasello said:
What you guys are arguing is basically a "don't ask, don't tell policy."

You don't know who they are and frankly you don't wanna know just shut up go /anon and sell me the stone?

It keeps the RMT's in business whether you guys like it or not. Just because you won't buy from Gilsellerlarry but Mikehunt is ok cause I don't know who he is doesn't make what you do 100% ok.
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So does buying speed belts, Kraken clubs, Damascene clothes, Ochidu's Kote, Fuma Kayhan, Hakutaku eyes, Behemoth hides, shihei, and food. Does that mean people aren't going to keep buying them because there is a chance they may buy something from a gil seller? Hell no it doesn't. People saying buying from the AH is 100% different then buying from a Level 1 mule. It's not, quit being so naive.

When you bid for something on the AH, you take a gamble on wether you buy something from a Legit player or a Gil seller. When you buy from a bazaar you are taking a gamble on wether you buy something from a Legit player or a Gil seller.

For once I agree with decidence and skaw, people are whining and complaining because they aren't the ones buying the stone that they want ever so badly but can't come up with the funds to buy themselves.

I'm sick of everyone saying "Teh AH is completely different from teh bazaarorz!!" Noone has gave a single supporting arguement to stand for that so until you can do so, do yourself a favor and shut up before you make yourself out to be a fool.
 
Vandoura said:
This Thread is going nowhere -. -

Can someone create a new FB topic? lol this is getting old...
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And thanks for contributing absolutely nothing besides post counts so far. :thumbsup:
 
Bajaratt said:
Kaizen said several times that they don't buy if the seller is obviously an RMT, and that they do look for non-RMT sellers for their stones. There are plenty of mules in BD that you can't tell who owns it, and that's where people are bitching. Apparently, you have to know everyone who plays the game and all of their mules to not be a supporter of RMT.
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Then keep note of the names if they don't want this shit to come up. VERY simple, and unlike you, I don't think they'd complain about having to keep 2000 names in the book, because I think they realize it involves only one name lol

In fact, I have a great idea! Why don't LSs that buy the stones make a "good times" post with the name of the seller every time they buy an autumnstone!? Oh wait, Jamal would come after you with his ridill if you do that. Is it dumb and tedious? Sure. You don't have to do this, of course. This is just to save your own face, after all.

Anyway, claiming ignorance obviously doesn't indemnify you from the accusations. Either
a) avoid it altogether by not buying at all or
b) have the name of who you bought it from so you can say "this is the guy, and we're sure he's not RMT" or
c) not give a fuck and just go about it.

It's your choice. But as the post count should indicate, no one is going to change their minds about the RMT situation no matter how hard you try to convince them. Arguments like Bajaratt's just increases the post count with no results.
 
Tomasello said:
Let me use a good example...

3 People have O. Kotes for sale on the AH. Bajaratt, Peterli, and Leave. I don't know whose selling them but based on what's up on the AH I have a 1/3 chance of buying from a non-RMT.

Now 3 people in Bastilla Downs have Autumnstomes for sale. Again Bajaratt, Peterli, and Leave. Who am I going to buy from? Obviously Bajarett and in this case I had a 100% chance of buying from non-RMT.

That's what I mean.. control vs no control. You can't use the AH as an excuse if you have no control over it.
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You act as if all the items on the AH arn't sellable in bazaars. Next time you feel like buying an item that is heavily rmt farmed go out to BD's and look for a legit player. That way your being safe and not supporting rmt. Quit using ignorance as an excuse. Isn't that what everyones been telling us? AH isn't the same as buying stones from bazaars? The only difference is we don't have the option of being lazy and going to the AH. Maybe if we could we could we'd beable hide behind ignorance with the rest of you rmt supporters.
 
metachronism said:
Then keep note of the names if they don't want this shit to come up. VERY simple, and unlike you, I don't think they'd complain about having to keep 2000 names in the book, because I think they realize it involves only one name lol

In fact, I have a great idea! Why don't LSs that buy the stones make a "good times" post with the name of the seller every time they buy an autumnstone!? Oh wait, Jamal would come after you with his ridill if you do that. Is it dumb and tedious? Sure. You don't have to do this, of course. This is just to save your own face, after all.

Anyway, claiming ignorance obviously doesn't indemnify you from the accusations. Either
a) avoid it altogether by not buying at all or
b) have the name of who you bought it from so you can say "this is the guy, and we're sure he's not RMT" or
c) not give a fuck and just go about it.

It's your choice. But as the post count should indicate, no one is going to change their minds about the RMT situation no matter how hard you try to convince them. Arguments like Bajaratt's just increases the post count with no results.
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I wouldn't keep a list because I wouldn't think there'd be anyone retarded enough to expect me to keep a list of every bazaar I bought something out of for the last year. Unless you know all of the gil seller mules, a list will do you no good at all, so they could easily give out random or made-up names just to shut you up.
 
Firestreak said:
Why not consider my point about the error in the AH vs Bazaar comparison before you continue to use the bad logic as if nobody ever challenged it?
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If you are completely ignorant and there is no way to remove that ignorance, then no one(in or out of the LS) would care that they're in your linkshell, since they wouldn't know they're RMT.

Edit: I'll give an example in this reality. A few years ago, on my first job, I was doing Genkai 1 with Jaychou. At the time, I had never heard of RMT before, not many had from my understanding. No one knew who he was, no one cared, he was just a guy who needed an ancient papyrus like the rest of us. He told us he was chinese and I thought it was cool, playing with people from around the world; and since I didn't know about RMT I didn't have any reason to suspect who he was. Only much later, once I was familiar with RMT, did I realize who he was that I cared. Now that I know he was an RMT, or at least just camped with them, I wouldn't have helped him out; but when I didn't have a means to find out who he is, no one cared.
 
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Bajaratt said:
I wouldn't keep a list because I wouldn't think there'd be anyone retarded enough to expect me to keep a list of every bazaar I bought something out of for the last year. Unless you know all of the gil seller mules, a list will do you no good at all, so they could easily give out random or made-up names just to shut you up.
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If you aren't going to back yourself up with any facts, then the onus is on you to just bend over and take all the accusations with nothing to refute them. That, in effect, belongs in c) go on and not give a fuck. Gogo brilliance!
 
Bajaratt said:
If you are completely ignorant and there is no way to remove that ignorance, then no one(in or out of the LS) would care that they're in your linkshell, since they wouldn't know they're RMT.
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So therefore the extention of your logic on the AH versus Bazaar thread, I can use the same argument to say it's fine to invite gilsellers into my linkshell in this reality, because in an alternate reality where I couldn't know it would be fine.
 
Firestreak said:
Theroetically, in an alternate reality you may not be able to see the names of your own linkshell members. Therefore it should be alright to be shellmates with gilsellers. So by that same logic it's cool to pretend as if Autumnstones are the same as items bought on the AH because in another world they could be.
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Something theroetically, in an alternate reality, meaning it doesn't exist. The fact that it is impossible to know whose Lv.1 mule it is is a reality. The fact that out of MuleA, MuleB, and MuleC you have a 33.33% chance of a legit stone and 66.66% chance of a seller stone is a reality. If Baja, and the other two sellers are selling Ochidu's kote on the AH then there's a 33.33% chance of getting the legit Okote and a 66.66% chance of a seller's Okote. The arguement that you don't know the names of the main character of the bazaar, and who is selling what on the AH is the exact same. It's a known gamble that someone is willing to take but the others aren't because they are scared to lose.
 
metachronism said:
If you aren't going to back yourself up with any facts, then the onus is on you to just bend over and take all the accusations with nothing to refute them. That, in effect, belongs in c) go on and not give a fuck. Gogo brilliance!
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What facts? That no one with half a brain would assume that someone without a brain would demand a list of the bazaars that I buy from?

I only know one bazaar that I buy from, because it's in the same place, selling the same thing, and I buy from it fairly regularly. Bautan. I don't know the owner, so since you apparently know every mule on the server, tell me who the owner is; I want to thank them for their awesome mule.
 
That's a different argument, the idea that it's impossible to know who a level 1 mule belongs to. People are arguing here that because it's impossible to know where your AH items come from that extends to Bazaars. Decidence and Jamal both say they'll buy from people they KNOW are RMT bazaars because of that extention.

Now that's fine by me, assuming they don't have a problem with RMT in general, which neither claim to be apathetic to.
 
Firestreak said:
So therefore the extention of your logic on the AH versus Bazaar thread, I can use the same argument to say it's fine to invite gilsellers into my linkshell in this reality, because in an alternate reality where I couldn't know it would be fine.
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If you're trying to justify actions in this reality just because of what might happen in a fictional reality, you're really out of options to prove your point. If there is no way to know who they really are, then no one cares.
 
Blazeoffury said:
Something theroetically, in an alternate reality, meaning it doesn't exist. The fact that it is impossible to know whose Lv.1 mule it is is a reality. The fact that out of MuleA, MuleB, and MuleC you have a 33.33% chance of a legit stone and 66.66% chance of a seller stone is a reality. If Baja, and the other two sellers are selling Ochidu's kote on the AH then there's a 33.33% chance of getting the legit Okote and a 66.66% chance of a seller's Okote. The arguement that you don't know the names of the main character of the bazaar, and who is selling what on the AH is the exact same. It's a known gamble that someone is willing to take but the others aren't because they are scared to lose.
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Well, the thing is the % of legit stones is alot less then 33.3%. True there might be one or 2 legit stones out there, but that isnt the norm.

People (not a shot at u blaze) are trying to make it sound like just as many stones are coming from legit players as they are from rmt. This simply isnt the case. The vast majority of stones for sale are coming from rmt. People that constantly camp this mob have attested to this.
 
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