Stop buying Ulli stones, you *#%*tards

[Bajaratt]

It is a business for them. There is very little reason for them waste time and actually bother killing byakko, other than to produce "proof" (against an accusation of being RMT) that they have actually used at least one of the many stones they have acquired--hence the ostentatious display of the seals. I thought that was obvious.

Since you apparently don't know, Byakko can drop millions in items to sell, along with some very nice gear that would help the gil sellers kill things and let them sell their current gear. They could sell the drops to people like they're selling the stones, or they could just keep the rare/ex drops and sell the rest and make as much if not more than a single ulli stone. On top of that, they can far the rest and kill kirin, get more gear or more items to sell; and make them more money. I'd have thought that obvious, but thanks for proving me wrong. :thumbsup:

 

[Crosis]

lmao ty Baja

 

[Sirelrohir]

1) We haven't technically done anythign hypocritical. Had we said "People that buy stuff in BD are immoral." then yeah. Cheating is still bad. You don't know if the people are hackers (And if they are they are fucking with RMT by cheating. win. Imoral, but win.)

2) Jamal is far from an associate... He's just right. Keep in mind he left our LS on pretty heated terms, and doesn't like us none too much either. He's just a little more mature in that he can set aside his differences and speak the truth.

3) Stating a valid argument/defense in a discussion doesn't make Jamal a hypocryte either.

Your logic fails. Your scope of reality is still too ego-centric. You think that since YOU wouldn't sell a stone NO OTHER PERSON would either.

You wish to argue, and have a point of view, yet you lack the mental facilities to properly formulate a proper argument or understand basic logic. Your thinking if flawed.

actually my thinking is right on. You buy uli stones from BD. Uli stones are camped by rmt and by legit ls that will use the shell. very rarely, a party will get lucky. the people selling the stones are rmt.

If i ever had a stone, i would sell it in a heart beat. I have no use for it. But i'd ask a friend if their ls needed first, then if not, i'd post here and it would go to the highest bidder. Difference between the 2 cases is that i would not have hacked (contrary to what certain people would like u guys to think) to get the stone.

Jamal's arguement was that it was ok to buy from gilsellers who cheat. This is after he went off on everyone else for 'cheating'. Do u understand what hypocrasy is?

 

[Bajaratt]

actually my thinking is right on. You buy uli stones from BD. Uli stones are camped by rmt and by legit ls that will use the shell. very rarely, a party will get lucky. the people selling the stones are rmt.

If i ever had a stone, i would sell it in a heart beat. I have no use for it. But i'd ask a friend if their ls needed first, then if not, i'd post here and it would go to the highest bidder. Difference between the 2 cases is that i would not have hacked (contrary to what certain people would like u guys to think) to get the stone.

Jamal's arguement was that it was ok to buy from gilsellers who cheat. This is after he went off on everyone else for 'cheating'. Do u understand what hypocrasy is?

So you'd sell it, why wouldn't others? JP players don't use QCDN much, so BD is the best place for them to sell something.

 

[Courtney]

actually my thinking is right on. You buy uli stones from BD. Uli stones are camped by rmt and by legit ls that will use the shell. very rarely, a party will get lucky. the people selling the stones are rmt.

If i ever had a stone, i would sell it in a heart beat. I have no use for it. But i'd ask a friend if their ls needed first, then if not, i'd post here and it would go to the highest bidder. Difference between the 2 cases is that i would not have hacked (contrary to what certain people would like u guys to think) to get the stone.

Jamal's arguement was that it was ok to buy from gilsellers who cheat. This is after he went off on everyone else for 'cheating'. Do u understand what hypocrasy is?

... but what you guys are saying is that we would need to have PROOF that you didn't hack, for us to be not hypocritical in buying it. Can you prove to anyone that you didn't hack to get that stone? (and as has been mentioned a lot of times, Jamal isn't a member of Kaizen).

We aren't naive enough to be 100% that every stone we've bought was obtained fairly (in the same way that not every O. Kote, Kraken, or anything made with spider webs for that matter, was obtained fairly). We haven't intentionally dealt with gilsellers, or targetted gilsellers. We have dealt with legitimate Shells and afk bazaars.

 

[Sirelrohir]

So you'd sell it, why wouldn't others? JP players don't use QCDN much, so BD is the best place for them to sell something.

im not camping it though. thats what im saying. I would be in the anomolous cases of a single pt getting a stone; its not the norm.

 

[Bajaratt]

im not camping it though. thats what im saying. I would be in the anomolous cases of a single pt getting a stone; its not the norm.

Not the norm for NA times, what about JP times? I've never camped Ulli during JP prime time, so I have no clue how their camps go. They might camp it with exp parties like we used to.

 

[Sirelrohir]

... but what you guys are saying is that we would need to have PROOF that you didn't hack, for us to be not hypocritical in buying it. Can you prove to anyone that you didn't hack to get that stone? (and as has been mentioned a lot of times, Jamal isn't a member of Kaizen).

We aren't naive enough to be 100% that every stone we've bought was obtained fairly (in the same way that not every O. Kote, Kraken, or anything made with spider webs for that matter, was obtained fairly). We haven't intentionally dealt with gilsellers, or targetted gilsellers. We have dealt with legitimate Shells and afk bazaars.

What I am saying is that rmt hack in sky. its well documented. If you arent up there to see it b/c you are buying stones from them doesnt mean it doesnt happen. All anyone has been tryin to do so far is to play dumb. Dont. You know that rmt is prevalant in sky. You know why they are there. To get uli stones to sell to whoever buys it.

You buy stones from bazaars. You claim you dont know who the mule is. Play dumb all you want, but do not go around accusing others of cheating when you are doing the same thing.

 

[Sirelrohir]

Not the norm for NA times, what about JP times? I've never camped Ulli during JP prime time, so I have no clue how their camps go. They might camp it with exp parties like we used to.

i'd bet the legit jp shells are in the same situation as us. Thats rmt primetime, so they probably have it even worse.

 

[Courtney]

What I am saying is that rmt hack in sky. its well documented. If you arent up there to see it b/c you are buying stones from them doesnt mean it doesnt happen. All anyone has been tryin to do so far is to play dumb. Dont. You know that rmt is prevalant in sky. You know why they are there. To get uli stones to sell to whoever buys it.

You buy stones from bazaars. You claim you dont know who the mule is. Play dumb all you want, but do not go around accusing others of cheating when you are doing the same thing.

Buying an item from a bazaar is cheating? Call a GM on Battalia...

 

[Sirelrohir]

Buying an item from a bazaar is cheating? Call a GM on Battalia...

Arent you the person that is against everyone cheating blah blah blah? Except for the people your ls get the stones from?

 

[Bajaratt]

i'd bet the legit jp shells are in the same situation as us. Thats rmt primetime, so they probably have it even worse.

RMT hot swap their accounts in the sweatshops, they have no primetime.

 

[Courtney]

We aren't naive enough to be 100% that every stone we've bought was obtained fairly (in the same way that not every O. Kote, Kraken, or anything made with spider webs for that matter, was obtained fairly). We haven't intentionally dealt with gilsellers, or targetted gilsellers. We have dealt with legitimate Shells and afk bazaars.

Sirelrohir, What part of this aren't you understanding?

I'm against traffic jams too, so I guess that makes me hypocritical for driving to work...

 

[metachronism]

Since you apparently don't know, Byakko can drop millions in items to sell, along with some very nice gear that would help the gil sellers kill things and let them sell their current gear. They could sell the drops to people like they're selling the stones, or they could just keep the rare/ex drops and sell the rest and make as much if not more than a single ulli stone. On top of that, they can far the rest and kill kirin, get more gear or more items to sell; and make them more money. I'd have thought that obvious, but thanks for proving me wrong. :thumbsup:

Well, I guess you'd make a pretty bad gilseller. You can take that as a compliment, if you'd like. If the drops produce a revenue stream greater than the stones themselves, _no one_ would bother selling the stones. And I guess I'm just hallucinating when I see the stones in batallia, right? And there must be *so many* people xping up there when they know the ulli campers are gonna kill all of their mobs.

And here's the kicker, if they're after the drops off the mobs, gee, don't you thnk they'd put all of their efforts into genbu? Zipacna spawns *much* more often, and the drops off genbu are of comparable value to byakko's. And it takes less people to kill. Oh my, what a bargain! But, again, I guess you have so much free time that you didn't really think about effective time/manpower investment.

So, where's all the bitching about zipacna, folks? *that* is a refutation of the "oh the gilsellers are doing it for the drops" argument.

And the people who think byakko haidate makes some mob that wasn't doable before suddenly doable... I'm at a loss of words.

Finally, think of the demographics of the people who'd be selling, folks.
They
1) don't need/want haidate
2) are willing to spend time camping when it's "a waste of time" for the buyer LSs.

If "some JP players who have haidate already but farm ulli for money" is the montage you come up with, excellent! They must make a very constant supplier of autmn stones. Please tell me the name of the character in batallia, and I'll inquire directly about who's been buying.

 

[Rormant]

OMG READ THE ENTIRE THREAD WE DO NOT ADMIT TO BUYING FROM RMT.

What do you want them to do, make characters called IAMRMT? You can't hide behind that feeble defense.

May I just add that you people keep mentioning this as if we have bought hundreds of stones from RMT? When in fact we have only bought less than 10 stones and they have been from bazaars in BD that aren't necessarily RMT and JP players that we have TALKED to. EVEN if all 10 stones were from RMT which, lol they aren't, how the fuck does 10 stones keep RMT in sky for over year? You gotta be fucking kidding if you think 10 would be enough to keep them around. 2 pops a day at least for Ulli, thats 730 stones a year and is probably much higher. Oh wow 730 vs 10 and all 10 definitely weren't from RMT. So I wonder where the other 720+ are going hmmmmm.

Since you don't camp Ulli apparently you dont realize that RMT activity their has increased dramatically in the last few months. Don't make silly mathematical arguments; they don't get all the claims, and they lose a lot of the stones when their characters get banned. If you bought 5 in the last few months they were probably all from RMT and a good proportion of all the sales they made. These are people that will synth 24/7 for a 100 gil profit per synth; if you buy even one or two you make it worth their time.

Wrong and more wrong. You think they cant kill Byakko? You are wrong. In fact I bet they start not even selling stones and keeping for themselves. How else do they have Byakko seals in their bazaars (from the ones we actually DO know are RMT)? Guess they stole them from legitimate LS's eh?

So, you're off the hook because other people pay them to take them to sky and give them Haidate drop? {Too Weak}

 

[Dragon Ryder]

WTF did I ever mention "Its ok to buy Byakkos" or "It ok you can buy anything from the RMT" Look back again on what he stated. :rtfm: :wacko:

i was giving an example, while buying from the AH, You have no control over who sells what. Byakko may drop items that are very desireable to many. These items are bought many to create value pieces of gear. It's like buying sole sushi off the AH, RMT make these 24/7 as well. We've no control over who sells what. Unless you only purchase your sole or whatever you buy from legit NA players, you my friend have purchased from RMT as well.

so i was giving this as an example. I don't support buying anything from RMT and i'll avoid buying anything from RMT if i could, but the fact is that we cannot. Simply said, IF you're to forbid anyone from buying ulli stones, then forbid anyone from buying their sole sushi, kotes, or anything else they obtain. Rule out the argument on "buying ulli stones keeps RMT around and you're supporting RMT by doing so" that's all i'm stating. I'm not here saying buying stones is ok, but there's nothing you can truly do about it.


Now on the other subject , "you don't derserve what you did not kill", I can only laugh and wonder what the majority think when saying such things. I'm pretty sure most have bought fomor codex or ant traps. What makes this any different? It saves time!!!!!!!!! if i had the gil, i would buy what i wanted before spending countless hours for one desired item.

this ties in with my last point, you cannot control what you're buying, so why even care? If it's not you buying the ulli stone, fomor codex, or ant trap, It's someone else. Even after all this, you'll still need to kill the required NM, so don't go about telling us they don't derserve it. all you who say they don't derserve it, tell me you've farmed all eyes for your cluster, tell me you've gone to the aquaducts for your fomor codex. Unless you can justify yourself in that way, don't come here with your biased opinion.

I can see it cleary as day and it's obvious. You lose claim to RMT countless times, so do i and it angers me as well, but coming to QCDN and spitting out random BS gets you nowhere. You fail to look around you and see the reality of the situation. RMT are here to stay and you guys need to realize that until SE do something about them. You're obviously just angry with RMT for taking ulli and that's the whole story about it. Why call out another LS for something so ridiculous? read it over, it doesn't matter what you do or say when fact hits you right in the forhead.

 

[Crosis]

What do you want them to do, make characters called IAMRMT? You can't hide behind that feeble defense.

Just like you can't hide behind the fact they are the ones selling Okotes, Kclubs, Cassie Earrings, Striders, Bhides, Serket Ring etc. If Autumnstone was AHable would people not buy it? Give me a break.

Since you don't camp Ulli apparently you dont realize that RMT activity their has increased dramatically in the last few months. Don't make silly mathematical arguments; they don't get all the claims, and they lose a lot of the stones when their characters get banned. If you bought 5 in the last few months they were probably all from RMT and a good proportion of all the sales they made. These are people that will synth 24/7 for a 100 gil profit per synth; if you buy even one or two you make it worth their time.

Silly math arguments? Its basic math you douche. There will be over 700 stones a year, and even IF we bought 5 that is an incredibly low number for them to remain just for us lol. They would clearly camp an item that is bought much more often then 5 times a year. God some people are dumb.

So, you're off the hook because other people pay them to take them to sky and give them Haidate drop? {Too Weak}

This part just makes no sense.

 

[Firestreak]

Silly math arguments? Its basic math you douche. There will be over 700 stones a year, and even IF we bought 5 that is an incredibly low number for them to remain just for us lol. They would clearly camp an item that is bought much more often then 5 times a year. God some people are dumb.

I'm losing interest in this thread but I'll point out this is an incredibly bad argument. I don't think people who care terribly that you're buying stones think you are the cause of all RMT in sky. It's simply a contribution, and honestly a pretty small one.

Just like if you bought 10 million gil, no one would claim you personally are the only reason for RMT on the server.

--And before you twist my argument.. not really comparing gilbuying to what you guys are doing. Only explosing a fault in your argument.

 

[Crosis]

I'm losing interest in this thread but I'll point out this is an incredibly bad argument. I don't think people who care terribly that you're buying stones think you are the cause of all RMT in sky. It's simply a contribution, and honestly a pretty small one.

Just like if you bought 10 million gil, no one would claim you personally are the only reason for RMT on the server.

--And before you twist my argument.. not really comparing gilbuying to what you guys are doing. Only explosing a fault in your argument.

I still haven't ever stated we bought them from them. I'm just making a point that even if we did, we wouldn't be the reason they stay and they don't stay just because people buy them when Byakko is profitable itself.

 

[Trelution]

I mean this is seriously getting crazy. If you wanted to you could say that anyone that sold anything during last Christmas is a cheater. Because the sellers found an exploit to "make" gil and thus drove prices sky high. And if you sold something in that time... you benefited from someone else cheating.
Its a sad fact that gilsellers can pretty much control our economy, yet I bet you heard far less complaints while people were lining their pockets with this "ill gotten loot"

So just remember, if you sold during last Chirstmas, you are a same a gilseller = cheater = terrorist = Barbara Streisand. D:

Stop the madness I tells ya!