Stop buying Ulli stones, you *#%*tards

[Firestreak]

The way I see it, RMT will do whatever provides the best source of income to them. Selling the stone is obviously more profitable and easier, if there are things they can do that are more gil/time efficient than fighting Byakko and less time/efficient than selling the stone, then if no one bought they'd go there.

Where i think they'd go? Not sure. Of course what's best for them is where they can make the most gil in the least time.

 

[Vandoura]

560+ reply when will this end.... :crazy:

 

[Rormant]

Just like you can't hide behind the fact they are the ones selling Okotes, Kclubs, Cassie Earrings, Striders, Bhides, Serket Ring etc. If Autumnstone was AHable would people not buy it? Give me a break.

Ummm, no. Look at the sales history on O kote, I recognize a lot of those names as legit characters. wth K clubs?? No one has sold one on AH since 2004. And maybe Behemoth is beneath your dignity to camp but lots of legit shells do. Come on, you've already given up on you're "we didnt know they were rmt" defense and now you're trying to justify what you did by saying everyone does it.

Silly math arguments? Its basic math you douche. There will be over 700 stones a year, and even IF we bought 5 that is an incredibly low number for them to remain just for us lol. They would clearly camp an item that is bought much more often then 5 times a year. God some people are dumb.

Ahh insults, the resort of the weak minded. Since I actually payed attention in math and economics let me make it clear. If your 5 stones were 20% of their sales in the last 3 months, at an average of 8 million each ,that would be 200 million gil they made. At current IGE price thats $5000; considering that an average worker in China might make $5 a day that is easily worth their time.

This part just makes no sense.

Yes, I know you have to deny it to yourself, but my point was that you are trying to justify your own unethical behavior based on the behavior of others. You choose to behave in your own self-interest regardless of the consequences to others. That's called "egoism" by the way.

 

[Master Honcho]

if you buy stones from RMT... u fail at final fantasy..


That is all.

Or since some of you reportedly"dont know" ... >.>

if you buy stones from people with names like jdhsfkis or lkpsakkeo:
you fail at final fantasy.

On a side note. I mpk'd a seller the other day and beat another at claim on sirens hair today cmonnnnnnnnnn

 

[hellstorm]

Who sold the last 17 Monks their O.kotes?

well lets just find out?

http://ffxiah.com/item.php?id=13952&sid=16&stack=0

notice the name Tunini that is Wwehe mule.

also notice here.

http://ffxiah.com/item.php?id=13054&sid=16&stack=0

As you see that ~ a 5th of the sells are from the rmt, but large amount not sold from rmt.
On side note I have put a gm call on wwehe and Vubreant. I also told them the name of this mule. Since then Vubreant has been banned but wwehe still in castle O and tunini still selling. Though you are right that alot the kotes/fumas are sold by rmt as shown here.

http://ffxiah.com/player.php?id=675377&sid=16

lets look at the cassie earring.

http://ffxiah.com/item.php?id=13402&sid=16&stack=0

as you see there really no recurrences of names like that o kotes. This because unlike punisher, cassie only pop once a day so must the market come from people reselling there earring.

lets look at 1 more. beh hide

http://ffxiah.com/item.php?id=860&sid=16&stack=0

well lookie there you sold the last b hide. I admit Bonasia seem little lucky. It looking here seem pretty legit.

http://ffxiah.com/player.php?id=706082&sid=16


Now as you see on all these Items, except b hide most the sells come from people 2nd hand selling.

Now let analyze Autumn stone. First off it been stated that no legit ls would sale a stone.(this I agree with) It also been stated that all lvl1 mules are rmt.(this i disagree with) Though here a food for thought, lvl 1 mule are normally mule for people who sale alot of items, Normally ls or rmt. Now if no legit ls would sell that only leave rmt. Also to further this argument why do you think kaizen buy them in first place... Reason because it is to time consuming to be profitable and the limit chance of getting. Now I'm sure there is a legit stone pop up every now and then, but I'm betting money that it not being sold on lvl 1 mule. Also criosis statement about making lvl 1 mule and selling stone is irrelevant, because he be doing it out of spite, not because you wanted to sell on for profit. If this was the case you would already been selling them instead you are buying them.

To sum it up if you buying from lvl 1 mule good chance you buying from rmt. Also the point that most the AH do not come from rmt most come from 2nd hand sellers.

EDIT: Also you got to rember any argument about linkshell camping uli stone has to be in the last 6 mounts because that the the time the rmt started there activity. So baj getting a stone while in NH would not apply consideing NH been dead for over a year.

 

[Bajaratt]

EDIT: Also you got to rember any argument about linkshell camping uli stone has to be in the last 6 mounts because that the the time the rmt started there activity. So baj getting a stone while in NH would not apply consideing NH been dead for over a year.

No, what's irrelevant is that NH broke up under a year ago. The whole point of my post was that someone in a legitimate, active, sky linkshell sold an Ulli stone; so you're initial assumption of no one in a legit sky shell would ever sell an Ulli stone is wrong. The time in which it sold doesn't matter, just the fact that it sold.

 

[Claxton]

if you buy stones from RMT... u fail at final fantasy..


That is all.

Or since some of you reportedly"dont know" ... >.>

if you buy stones from people with names like jdhsfkis or lkpsakkeo:
you fail at final fantasy.

On a side note. I mpk'd a seller the other day and beat another at claim on sirens hair today cmonnnnnnnnnn

You told me yesterday that I fail at final fantasy ;_; does that mean I buy stones?

 

[hellstorm]

No, what's irrelevant is that NH broke up under a year ago. The whole point of my post was that someone in a legitimate, active, sky linkshell sold an Ulli stone; so you're initial assumption of no one in a legit sky shell would ever sell an Ulli stone is wrong. The time in which it sold doesn't matter, just the fact that it sold.

actually no not wrong thing have change. Rmt run rampant using pocketsnifers and bots. The way ulli is pop as change it no long 4-8 hours it now 4 to and unknown number of hours. This is the exactly the point i made back on page 36. You look at from stand point who has gotten all there item from sky and want little to do with sky. Look at it from stand point of a person like the OP who is trying to get his items. There was a similar thread about how people felt that they where not getting a fair shot. Was about year and half go. Maybe you will remember it. It was the post where NH was trying to get a shot at tiamet but could not because jda, kaz, and lucifer ls was there when it spawn. If remember the argument was about how NH would like a shot at taimet because kaizen had there time to practice wipe and retry. Well the new sky shell is NH. They want there chance, if you buying stones from rmt, there not getting there chance.

 

[hellstorm]

Since you apparently don't know, Byakko can drop millions in items to sell, along with some very nice gear that would help the gil sellers kill things and let them sell their current gear. They could sell the drops to people like they're selling the stones, or they could just keep the rare/ex drops and sell the rest and make as much if not more than a single ulli stone. On top of that, they can far the rest and kill kirin, get more gear or more items to sell; and make them more money. I'd have thought that obvious, but thanks for proving me wrong. :thumbsup:

except every drop that not ra/ex can be gotten from another place. Even so I dought they would do this they be wasting more there time. Drops are not 100% and they whould have to camp despot as well.

 

[Uzor]

Browny points for quoting yourself

Also, just because you killed it a couple of times does not mean you put pressure. It means you tried. Where's OH now? Where's all the results of your pressure?

I'm still only on page 44 since the thread grew 16+ pages since I wake up, but...

OH constantly argued that people had to actually CC the Japanese players to get them to lose the monopolize. Kaizen argued that there was no point, and that making a deal with the Japanese players were better...

How on earth is that "putting preasure" on the Japanese?

 

[Windurst]

To me 12 hours of an ls is worth far more than 5 mil. I will pay 5 mil for a stone. And while you guys argue about this I'll get another pair of haidate

And to me a week of farming stupid stuff is worth far more than the 1-2 work hours it would take me to ~BUY~ that much gil, if not more. Does that mean I should "play for me" and buy gil? I don't think so.

Also, people claiming it's okay to buy, even from RMT (buying from normal players, if legit, is totally okay as I see it), and say it's because they "earned" their gil?
Excuse me thar sir, but the ARDUOUS LABOR of staring at a monitor and clicking macro's must be so intensive that earning it is oh so terribly crucial in a defense!

...except that in the time it takes me to -get- to work I've done more than most you do effort-wise in a full game week. And that's if you claim every day.

So excuse me while I spit on your pitiful excuses and stand tall on my moral high ground of not taking the easy way out and doing what's "worth more" to me. I'll stick to actually "earning" my things all the way, not the half-assed way you seem to find acceptable.

That is not a comment to Kaizen either, that is a simple logic. I hope I don't cause too much offense but when you read your arguements, it's just so ridiculous. :/

 

[Uzor]

It was a dumbass thing to do. Like you said someone "told" him. Was it a fact or a rumor? He posted because it was a stab at Kaizen. That or he dislikes the shell so he figured it was a good chance to flame them.

Someone "told" Kabrina that Sire cheated, and she started flaming him for it.

Is that not the same thing, ot is it different because Kabrina is in Jamal's shell, and it suddenly holds mroe true then?

She posted it because she thought it was a stab against Antares. Or she dislikes the shell, so she figured it was a good chance to flame them.

Its the exact same thing. Hold back with your retarded arguments before you hurt yourself on your keyboard.

I'm on page 47 atm, and I'm going to work. Hopefully this thread didn't grow another 20 pages when I get home...

 

[Skaw]

And to me a week of farming stupid stuff is worth far more than the 1-2 work hours it would take me to ~BUY~ that much gil, if not more. Does that mean I should "play for me" and buy gil? I don't think so.

Completely retarded and unrelated topics. Buying gil is against ToS, as well as it has no actual real life monetary/time value outside of what morons pay for it. Buying items with gil isn't against the ToS, and actually supports monetary/time value of the ingame currency. There is no equality between buying gil, and buying items to save time, regardless of who you're buying from or what was done to obtain the item for sale. One's a violation of contract, the other isn't.

I'd provide a better comparison for you, but there actually isn't one that I can think of. Real Life mechanics can't, and do not apply to this situation.

Buying items like this is a time saver, yes. Buying gil isn't a time saver, but rather a method of extreme laziness/idiocy. To me, why work for 1~2 hours to buy gil when the cumulative time spent earning the same amount of gil can be far less than the time clocked in at your job, as well as require less effort? Don't tell me people are still tethered to the belief that they actually have to SPEND two hours at their PC/PS/Xbox to camp something with a respawn of two hours, whilst doing absolutely nothing else but staring at their screens.

It is that black and white, folks. Dispute/Cry/Cut Your Wrists all you want over the topic. If you want to say someones cheating by buying from cheaters, you have to admit you're most likely a cheater for the same reason, regardless of how you buy your items or from who. Like I said, theres a very good chance that it's originated from ill methods - after all, due to this games loot system, theres a chance it wouldn't exist at all without the cheating taking place in the first place. And thus why you have to be an absolute idiot to not only believe, but follow that logic.

Okay, yeah. I did think of an example: Paying someone to do a job for you, such as a contractor. But the point that you can't apply real life mechanics to a video game still remains.

 

[Zalbag]

The way I see it, RMT will do whatever provides the best source of income to them. Selling the stone is obviously more profitable and easier, if there are things they can do that are more gil/time efficient than fighting Byakko and less time/efficient than selling the stone, then if no one bought they'd go there.

Where i think they'd go? Not sure. Of course what's best for them is where they can make the most gil in the least time.

What's best for them is where they can make the most gil in the least time.

If camping Ulli is the most gil they can make in the least time then who's to say that other people havnt worked this out to? There may be some ligit group of 2-3 people who go up there and farm Ulli for gil on a regular basis. Just like there is normally a number of ligit players ccing rmt at kote's.

Ummm, no. Look at the sales history on O kote, I recognize a lot of those names as legit characters. wth K clubs?? No one has sold one on AH since 2004. And maybe Behemoth is beneath your dignity to camp but lots of legit shells do. Come on, you've already given up on you're "we didnt know they were rmt" defense and now you're trying to justify what you did by saying everyone does it.

Where do you think the bulk of those legit players got their kote's from? They're just old rmt kote's being resold because they're finished with them.

Ahh insults, the resort of the weak minded. Since I actually payed attention in math and economics let me make it clear. If your 5 stones were 20% of their sales in the last 3 months, at an average of 8 million each ,that would be 200 million gil they made. At current IGE price thats $5000; considering that an average worker in China might make $5 a day that is easily worth their time.

We don't buy stone's over 5mil, some we got as low as 3. Assuming all of them were 5 thats only 25mil. Now lets play your % game. Over 700 stones a year. Rmt are out claiming legit shells most of the time, using cheats or whatever methods. Using sir's theory that sellers get 9/14 stones that would mean rmt get about about 500 rmt stones. Now in your example you said rmt sell about 40 stones? That still leaves 460 stones missing. Does that mean rmt lose 460 accounts a year that all happen to have ulli stones on them?

Damn no wonder SE can't get rid of them.

Before I jump into the topic of the post, I'd like to explain why a reply hasn't been made by a Kaizen member in the past 30 pages of this thread. Despite what many may think, we don't have a rule strictly forbidding members from posting on the flameboards. What we do have is an unwritten policy asking members to refrain from making posts within the flameboard. The general consensus of the shell is that we don't want to deal with drama that has a tendency to follow us around. In cases such as this where a flame is directed at us, I (or one of the other leaders) would say to the shell that we would appreciate it if no one post in the topic. This isn't a threat that if they do post, they would be booted from the shell or anything of that nature. We just feel that a post coming from one of the leaders would be more official since we're the ones that run the linkshell. In this instance, I personally asked the shell to refrain from posting.

Another thing I want to address would be the jabs at Nasya (since she's the moderater of this section) saying that she would eventually lock the topic simply because this was being directed at our linkshell. When Nas originally signed up for the job of moderating, she said to Sculli that problems may arise due to the fact that she was a leader of Kaizen. However, over the course of her being a moderator for the flameboard, I have yet to see her lock a thread because we (Kaizen) wanted to avoid drama of some sort. Had there been an issue about her being a mod from the time she volunteered to do so, I'm sure someone would have said something by now. I also want to say that even if Nas did lock this thread, it wouldn't stop anyone from bringing the original topic back to life. One last thing I would like to add before I get on topic would be that locking this thread would be the last thing the shell would have wanted. When the thread was created, the very first thing I thought of was that I would eventually have to reply to it. If you've been around long enough to remember previous threads, we have always had someone reply if the topic was directed at us.

Well, to start off with, does Kaizen buy Autumnstones? Yes, we do but that isn't the entire story. More recently, we have been buying stones through bazaars. However, roughly a year ago we actually had discussions and dealings with both NA and JP linkshells to purchase stones. As of today, two of these linkshells have disbanded and 1 is still active. I would like to point out again that all our recent transactions were done through bazaar. We have not sought out famous RMT names when checking bazaars nor have we searched Ru'Avitau and asked said names if they were sellings stones as some have implied. We don't even look for bazaars for that matter. Our process of buying stones is that if a member happens to see one in a bazaar for a reasonable price, then they can buy it and the money we have set aside in our bank can refund them. Our main reason for doing this rather then camping Ulli is because in a gil/hr/sanity ratio, we are able to fund the money it takes to buy a stone in less time killing HNM's. More to the point would be that the drops we end up getting from Byakko funds itself. It may be the easy way out of not having to camp Ulli but that doesn't invalidate our Byakko kill or the Kirin that follows.

We still put in the effort it took to gather every single item to spawn Kirin and taking it from 100 to 0. Some compared this to grabbing a credit card and buying gil straight from a website. This logic is flawed because the gil we earned which was used to purchase the stone was done through the game. The effort we put in-game as well as in-game economics allows us to afford stones. It's as simple as that. The things we do to obtain gil is something every other shell is capable of doing. We don't have a magical program that allows us to take out that Tiamat or to kill that Kirin in under a minute despite what many may believe. Any shell with the drive and motivation is able to do that.

To go into more detail about the bazaar's we buy from. These bazaar's are lvl 1 mules right outside of jeuno, have no pearls on, no comments, nothing. If you went out to batallia right now you'd see about 50 of those just standing around. Granted, it's suspicious when all they have is an Autumnstone in their bazaar but unless you track every single Ulli kill, how would you go about knowing if the mule belongs to an RMT? There's just as much chance that the mule can belong to an NA/JP/EU player that has a stone and decided for some reason to sell it. It's a chance that's being taken but that same thing can be said about purchases through the AH. You don't know exactly who's selling it, how they obtained it, or why they're selling it. Until SE tracks every single player that sells gil and stamps a giant red RMT on their character's forehead, there's just as much chance of us buying from a gil seller as anyone that purchases from the AH. A lot of people are claiming with 100% certainty that we buy all our stones from RMT. This logic is flawed due to the fact that even we are unable to know for certain who we buy stones from. For others to say that they know our business better than we do is a very radical claim.

Let's say for a moment that there were no RMT's on the server. Can anyone honestly say that someone else wouldn't fill their spot and do the same thing? Even if they were gone, 5 different shells would take their place simply because there's less competition. Not only is this a plausible case it was how things were when sky started to become overcrowded. During that time when there were no RMT's in sky, Autumnstones were still being sold in bazaar's. We were not the first ones to buy stones and I'm sure we won't be the last. To bring up a point, the original idea of buying stones didn't even originate from us. There were numerous JP's that would sell stones for 15mil+ constantly because there was a market for it between other JP's. If anyone remembers the name Peavey, she was one of the few JP players we purchased stones from on several occasions.

It's quite clear from reading this thread that there are a few people that hold a grudge against us as a linkshell for whatever reason. Their views aren't going to change based on what is said in this post and that's fine. This post isn't for them. We felt that a reply to those that read QCDN should know where we stand on the subject matter. Part of the reason why we didn't reply initially is because we didn't want to react too hastily to the comments and insults that were directed at our linkshell and at some of our members. In spite of what was said about us, we still wanted to state our views about the topic at hand so that anyone can get both sides of the story. In addition to that, we felt that us responding immaturely to said comments would have just caused further problems and would have prevented us from explaining anything in decency.

Where in this post does it say we never camp Ulli? We only farm sky once a week for a good 8 odd hours. We've started doing sky again about a month ago thats 4 nights in which we farmed. 2/4 of those times we went up camp Ulli to find that he was already being killed. On the other 2 days we either didnt plan on ulli or were told he was recently killed.

 

[Bigboy]

The most amazing thing about this thread is the people that find it so hard to believe that 1.3% of the ulli stones obtained in a year could be sold by legitimate sellers. I'd wager about 5% of the Ulli stones obtained in a year actually goto this margin.

One thing that I think people may have missed is the actual process for obtaining a stone that we go through as a LS. I will try to demonstrait:

Bigboy goes to BD looking for an Enhancing Sword.
Bigboy sifts through random bazaarz checking out the goods.
Bigboy spots an Autumn Stone for sale in bazaar.
Bigboy types in LS that he found a stone in BD for 5Mil.
LS leader says, "Awsome, that makes another set. Now we have another full Kirin set. Meet me at moghouse, I'll refund you."
Bigboy types "kk"
Bigboy buys stone from Bazaar window that he had left open the whole time, so as no to risk loosing track of the right bazaar.
Bigboy heads to moghouse, and trades stone for his 5 Mil back.
Bigboy goes back out to look for enhancing sword.


Thats how most purchases go. Sometimes we have someone actually maning the bazaar and see if they wanna lower the price, (never hurts to ask ^^ but overall, thats the whole process, there's no scanning and anyone in the LS can do it, meaning that someone like me who doesnt even have sky, and has no way of recognizing sky RMT and their LSs can easily make the mistake, but, that doesn't mean certain things aren't viewed with a scruitinous eye, it just means it's different depending on who buys it, and it's really more up to the individual than the LS to determine where it came from. The LS has no way of seeing where I bought it from, and if I was wrong in my assumption that it was a normal player's bazaar, it's really only my fault. They just have to trust that I am not grabbing up stones out of people I know are RMT's bazaars. It's more likely an honest mistake when one is bought, but chances are, no one knows since if I, the buyer, didn't know, I wont just randomly name the bazaar I bought it from.... if I even looked.

Hopefully that makes things a little clearer. It was getting a tad rediculous, and hopefully a better understanding of the process, makes things easier to understand.

 

[Veresko]

The key thing here is that people are irritated that they aren't progressing because of the gilsellers camping. Remove the fact that they're gilsellers, and just regular player selling stones for their own gil pools - the same arguement would be going on.

No it would not. As long as legit players are exactly that, legits. Baj already pointed out why this whole discussion is taking place. RMTs like Euphori and Nehnet (sp?) cheat. They modifiy .dat files (ok, I know a lot of players who do that to but anyway...) to see who the real PH is. Just looking at them go for 4 hours you can easily spot that. Throw in a claim/warp bot and you get pissed off legit players.

If RMT would play fair and camp like the rest of us, no one would give a shit. Just another LS to compete with. But seeing 6-8 Tarus magically go from the Tele to a still 50% visible, almost-spawned Ullik and all claim at the exact same time after you spent 4 hours staring at a wall IS frustrating. If a regular LS would rather sell a stone then get a member Haidates, I wouldn't be pissed, I'd laugh.

As for progressing, I'm pretty sure if you get 50 people in a room you'll get 49 different goals and therefor, 49 different takes on what "progress" really is.

EDIT: Finally finished reading. This thread is going in more directions then my grandma on crack driving and more cheap shots then a Tujiana bar.

 

[Zaxxon]

The way I see it, RMT will do whatever provides the best source of income to them.

I was hoping someone would post something like this towards the end, because jebus, this is a long topic. Everyone is entirely focused on the wrong issue.

Firestreak is entirely wrong with this statement (pardon me if I've not quoted enough), RMT's make no money from people buying Ulli stones, tree cuttings, or whatever else they farm for gil. What they get there is some increment in a number in a video game. Now when they turn around and take real money for the gil, that's where the RMT's get paid. If Ulli wasn't such a money maker RMT's would be elsewhere doing other things, and for the most part people wouldn't care. But now that they've come for Ulli, now they've just pissed in your corn flakes and now "everybody's" angry.

Seriously, RMT's could have max gil, but if no one paid real money for it, they'd have to move on to something else. So, why don't people start flaming people who buy gil, oh wait, that'd be like hard, instead, let's flame people who use their money and time wisely.

 

[Uzor]

I was hoping someone would post something like this towards the end, because jebus, this is a long topic. Everyone is entirely focused on the wrong issue.

Firestreak is entirely wrong with this statement (pardon me if I've not quoted enough), RMT's make no money from people buying Ulli stones, tree cuttings, or whatever else they farm for gil. What they get there is some increment in a number in a video game. Now when they turn around and take real money for the gil, that's where the RMT's get paid. If Ulli wasn't such a money maker RMT's would be elsewhere doing other things, and for the most part people wouldn't care. But now that they've come for Ulli, now they've just pissed in your corn flakes and now "everybody's" angry.

Seriously, RMT's could have max gil, but if no one paid real money for it, they'd have to move on to something else. So, why don't people start flaming people who buy gil, oh wait, that'd be like hard, instead, let's flame people who use their money and time wisely.

Even if there were other things RMT could make money of, I would venture that they split up. One group for the same company might camp Ulli, while another one camp HNM's, and some other smaller group camp NM's. Then they have some farming for items, while some other synth (maybe even synth the items the farmers farm).

It would be completely useless for all of their groups in the same company do the same thing. Its farm more efficient for each group within the same company to do different things. That's how EVERY company work. Its a complete waste of time for 50 people to do the exact same thing that generates the most money.

Let's say Amemet generates the most money for RMT. If one company have 50 gilsellers working for them, it would be useless for all 50 of them to farm Amemet, when 12 people could to the exact same thing. That leaves 38 people that can do something else, thus generating a larger income for the company.

If 20 of those farm sky, then that leaves 18 other RMT's that could do something else, like killing other NM's and HNM's. While there are no HNM windows open, they can camp other NM's, or farm other items.

That is a far more efficient use of their time, so your agument is rather flawed. Just because sky doesn't generate the most income, doesn't mean its useless for them.

 

[Zaxxon]

That is a far more efficient use of their time, so your agument is rather flawed. Just because sky doesn't generate the most income, doesn't mean its useless for them.

I think you missed the point of my post. It doesn't matter what RMT's are camping, they will always be camping something, like you said probably spread out for the best use of their time resources, yielding the most gil.

But the true point of my post is if they do not get real money for the work they do, then they will be forced to do something else or farm in a different game. That's what the real issue/rant should be about.

 

[Firestreak]

I think you have to take into account they have shitty gear, little skill and use 3rd party hacks to get claim. this puts an emphasis on camping easily killable and hard to claim NMs which are much more profitable than hard to kill but easily claimable NMs. I have no idea where they'd end up, but from someone who gives a hobo's shit(ie. not me), it'll probably be somewhere better for the server in general than Ulli. Of course it's probably better for Kaizen that sky is as shitty as possible for any new LS so they have less competition on kings - not that I'm suggesting that has anything to do with their indifference.