Stop buying Ulli stones, you *#%*tards

[Bajaratt]

No it would not. As long as legit players are exactly that, legits. Baj already pointed out why this whole discussion is taking place. RMTs like Euphori and Nehnet (sp?) cheat. They modifiy .dat files (ok, I know a lot of players who do that to but anyway...) to see who the real PH is. Just looking at them go for 4 hours you can easily spot that. Throw in a claim/warp bot and you get pissed off legit players.

How do you modify a .dat to only change a specific mob in a pack of them? I've done a few .dat swaps of mithra gear, and every mithra I see has that gear, not just myself. Mobs work exactly the same way, when you change the model for a mob, every mob looks exactly like your changed model. You might be confusing .dat swapping with removing .dats of flies in Dragon's Aery.

 

[Uzor]

But the true point of my post is if they do not get real money for the work they do, then they will be forced to do something else or farm in a different game. That's what the real issue/rant should be about.

They don't get paid for the ammount they farm, no. But if they don't farm at all, they won't be paid. And thus, they get paid for what they do. Being to farm gil. Thus, farming gil is what they get paid for. If they didn't get paid for it, they wouldn't do it.

So in a way, yes, you are right, but since people will always buy gil, they will always be paid for it.

But this thread is't about that. Its about the linkshells that buy sky pop items from RMT, thus suporting them. While yes, even if Kaizen stopped buying pop items, they would still be in sky farming, since other people will be. And if no one bought the pop items, they would either

a) pop them themselves, or if that fail
b) do something else instead of sky.

Sadly, since people will always need sky items, they'll stay in sky. Which is why I personally don't care what Kaizen get their pop items from. What I do care about is that I find it hypocoritical of them to take a stance against RMT activities when they suport RMT by byting stones from them (and, again, you can plead ignorance all you want, it still doesn't change the fact that even 1 RMT bought stone suports them).

While you can say that buying O. kote suports gil sellers too. What you fail to take in to consideration is that second-hand bought O. kotes (being that someone don't need it anymore, and thus resell), does in no way suport gil sellers. This means that the number of o. kotes sold by gil sellers always decrease as more and more o. kotes are put in circulation, thus lowering the ammount of sales done by gil sellers. The NM for Ochido's Kote pops aproximately every hour, so even if there only were 1 drop per day, that's 356 o. kotes per year, which NEVER decreases unless its dropped, or the buyer is banned.

Autumnstones on the other hand, are constantly the same ammount, since they are used.

Thus, you can't compare o. kote with autumnstone. Even bringing that up is beyond retarded. And you can't say that second-hand sales support gil sellers. That's a lame way of trying to prove yourself right.

 

[Bajaratt]

except every drop that not ra/ex can be gotten from another place. Even so I dought they would do this they be wasting more there time. Drops are not 100% and they whould have to camp despot as well.

Byakko's Seal would be worth several million too, and that IS a 100% drop. Anything else that drops would be extra money made. Plus, any gear they get would replace their current gear, which they could sell and make up for the cost of the stone.

You apparently didn't read the part earlier or ever heard about how gil sellers on other servers actually kill gods with their seals and keep/sell the drops to players. Those are the gil sellers that on top of monopolizing sky are taking down kings on those servers with the gear they got from sky.

If no one bought the stones, the RMT would still bot Ulli, they'd just be killing byakko and keeping/selling the drops. Selling the stone is the easiest way to make money, but actually using the stone would overall be more profitable for them.

 

[Uzor]

Byakko's Seal would be worth several million too, and that IS a 100% drop. Anything else that drops would be extra money made. Plus, any gear they get would replace their current gear, which they could sell and make up for the cost of the stone.

You apparently didn't read the part earlier or ever heard about how gil sellers on other servers actually kill gods with their seals and keep/sell the drops to players. Those are the gil sellers that on top of monopolizing sky are taking down kings on those servers with the gear they got from sky.

If no one bought the stones, the RMT would still bot Ulli, they'd just be killing byakko and keeping/selling the drops. Selling the stone is the easiest way to make money, but actually using the stone would overall be more profitable for them.

Yeah. We should be glad our gilsellers are way behind those on other servers. On other servers, gil sellers constantly farm sea and sell the items to other players (Novio earring for 45 mil...), and constantly kill Tiamat, Jormungand etc. to sell those items.

 

[Bajaratt]

actually no not wrong thing have change. Rmt run rampant using pocketsnifers and bots. The way ulli is pop as change it no long 4-8 hours it now 4 to and unknown number of hours. This is the exactly the point i made back on page 36. You look at from stand point who has gotten all there item from sky and want little to do with sky. Look at it from stand point of a person like the OP who is trying to get his items. There was a similar thread about how people felt that they where not getting a fair shot. Was about year and half go. Maybe you will remember it. It was the post where NH was trying to get a shot at tiamet but could not because jda, kaz, and lucifer ls was there when it spawn. If remember the argument was about how NH would like a shot at taimet because kaizen had there time to practice wipe and retry. Well the new sky shell is NH. They want there chance, if you buying stones from rmt, there not getting there chance.

Wow, you have no idea what you're talking about(but then, I'm not surprised). There was never a NH thread whining about how we want a chance at Tiamat too. In the thread that existed outside of your retarded mind, NH called for help and then purposely wiped, Kaizen claimed after CFH wore off, before NH coudl reclaim. That thread was made by Sirelrohir, it was a stupid flame and never should have been made; it was made against the wishes of the leadership of NH. If you actually remember(Which I know you don't, but for others with a brain) I was posting on the first page saying just that along with it should be locked; but cubswoo thought it was too entertaining to lock so it stayed open.

It also has no bearing on what's being discussed right now. There was no cheating, no RMT, no buying of anything; they just claimed faster than us and there was nothing wrong done.

The fact that we sold the stone before it became such a rare comoditiy actually supports my point more than you've bothered to realize. The fact that when Ulli was common and easier to obtain that people bothered to buy/sell even if they were in an active sky linkshell; just shows that people have been doing this for years. It's less common now, sure, but it still happens.

 

[Zalbag]

Thus, you can't compare o. kote with autumnstone. Even bringing that up is beyond retarded. And you can't say that second-hand sales support gil sellers. That's a lame way of trying to prove yourself right.

No one ever said it supports sellers, Simply said they most likely originated from a rmt. And on that note how do you know that people arnt buying cheap ulli stones from rmt and reselling them for higher prices? On your logic that would mean that stone was no longer farmed by rmt.

I know no one ever buys and resells stones, they'd use them. Cause no one besides rmt ever sells a stone.

 

[Uzor]

No one ever said it supports sellers, Simply said they most likely originated from a rmt. And on that note how do you know that people arnt buying cheap ulli stones from rmt and reselling them for higher prices? On your logic that would mean that stone was no longer farmed by rmt.

They constantly compared o. kote to Autumnstones, sayign that if you buy o. kotes, you support gil sellers too. They went in ot this long process about how RMT sells kotes, and if you buy one you support them. Why would they even bring up 2nd hand sales in that context if they didn't mean RMT profited from it?

And no, we can't know people buy Autumnstones and resell them for higher prices. I've never said RMT is the only ones selling stones. Other people brought that point up. I agree, its possible that people do that. But if people bought them to resell them for higher prices, then that person supports RMT. Not the person who buys the raised autumnstone price, which would be the the same thing as o. kote.

Edit: to make it more clear, it doesn't matter if you buy from the AH even if the kote originated from an RMT, since RMT won't be the one selling the gil, thus not profiting from it, if the seller is legit. So even bringign o. kote in to this discussion is like comparing a tree to a flower.

 

[Rormant]

And to me a week of farming stupid stuff is worth far more than the 1-2 work hours it would take me to ~BUY~ that much gil, if not more. Does that mean I should "play for me" and buy gil? I don't think so.

Also, people claiming it's okay to buy, even from RMT (buying from normal players, if legit, is totally okay as I see it), and say it's because they "earned" their gil?
Excuse me thar sir, but the ARDUOUS LABOR of staring at a monitor and clicking macro's must be so intensive that earning it is oh so terribly crucial in a defense!

...except that in the time it takes me to -get- to work I've done more than most you do effort-wise in a full game week. And that's if you claim every day.

So excuse me while I spit on your pitiful excuses and stand tall on my moral high ground of not taking the easy way out and doing what's "worth more" to me. I'll stick to actually "earning" my things all the way, not the half-assed way you seem to find acceptable.

That is not a comment to Kaizen either, that is a simple logic. I hope I don't cause too much offense but when you read your arguements, it's just so ridiculous. :/

Excellent post. When RMT are working for 50 cents an hour, it will always be more efficient to buy from them rather than obtain items yourself. That doesnt make it right.

 

[Veresko]

How do you modify a .dat to only change a specific mob in a pack of them? I've done a few .dat swaps of mithra gear, and every mithra I see has that gear, not just myself. Mobs work exactly the same way, when you change the model for a mob, every mob looks exactly like your changed model. You might be confusing .dat swapping with removing .dats of flies in Dragon's Aery.

To be honnest with you, I have no clue at all. I'm on PS2 and anyone can tell you when it comes to a PC, if it involves more then a few clicks of the mouse, you totally lost me.

But one thing for sure, RMT will go after a specific one. I'm not gonna go into details as I'm sure most of you alrady know this but statue will pop in a specific order in widescan. RMT will always go for either the 3rd or 5th or a few others. They won't go for all of them, they'll change which one each pop set. I trained all statues once as nin to try and mix them up, having some despawned and repop. After a good 10-15 minutes of doing so and finally 2-houring, they went for a specific one, way at the back, avoiding 4-5 other statues to get THAT one. Sometimes they'll kil 4-5 statues, sometimes only 1 but they'll change which one every pop set. Maybe they don't, but it sure as hell look like they have something telling them which is the PH or which one they need to keep track of.

Plus, my point was that being counter-camped by legit players who would play fair and sell the stones, on my part at least, would never create such drama. I couldn't care less if someone decided to take the money rather then Haidates. In this case, RMT are almost monopolizing a sought-after NM using cheats. Maybe they don't play with .dat, maybe you can't prove they use voke-bots (but gimme a break) but warping from the Teleport to Ullik and ALL claiming at the exact same millisecond, no one's gonna make me say they don't use cheats after witnessing that myself. This is what pisses me off. They are using cheats, bots and whatever means to monopolize a NM and try to force us to buy the stones.

On the other hand, if a non-RMT LS was using the same bots and cheats to monopolize Ullik and force us to buy the stone for their own LS bank, you bet I'd come flame here as well.

 

[Uzor]

To be honnest with you, I have no clue at all. I'm on PS2 and anyone can tell you when it comes to a PC, if it involves more then a few clicks of the mouse, you totally lost me.

But one thing for sure, RMT will go after a specific one. I'm not gonna go into details as I'm sure most of you alrady know this but statue will pop in a specific order in widescan. RMT will always go for either the 3rd or 5th or a few others. They won't go for all of them, they'll change which one each pop set. I trained all statues once as nin to try and mix them up, having some despawned and repop. After a good 10-15 minutes of doing so and finally 2-houring, they went for a specific one, way at the back, avoiding 4-5 other statues to get THAT one. Sometimes they'll kil 4-5 statues, sometimes only 1 but they'll change which one every pop set. Maybe they don't, but it sure as hell look like they have something telling them which is the PH or which one they need to keep track of.

Plus, my point was that being counter-camped by legit players who would play fair and sell the stones, on my part at least, would never create such drama. I couldn't care less if someone decided to take the money rather then Haidates. In this case, RMT are almost monopolizing a sought-after NM using cheats. Maybe they don't play with .dat, maybe you can't prove they use voke-bots (but gimme a break) but warping from the Teleport to Ullik and ALL claiming at the exact same millisecond, no one's gonna make me say they don't use cheats after witnessing that myself. This is what pisses me off. They are using cheats, bots and whatever means to monopolize a NM and try to force us to buy the stones.

On the other hand, if a non-RMT LS was using the same bots and cheats to monopolize Ullik and force us to buy the stone for their own LS bank, you bet I'd come flame here as well.

they don't .dat swap to make only some statues or w/e visible, they go after a certain mob ID. I'm guessing after spending so much time in sky, they figured out exactly which mob ID's are Ullikummi place holders.

 

[Crosis]

Wow, you have no idea what you're talking about(but then, I'm not surprised). There was never a NH thread whining about how we want a chance at Tiamat too. In the thread that existed outside of your retarded mind, NH called for help and then purposely wiped, Kaizen claimed after CFH wore off, before NH coudl reclaim. That thread was made by Sirelrohir, it was a stupid flame and never should have been made; it was made against the wishes of the leadership of NH. If you actually remember(Which I know you don't, but for others with a brain) I was posting on the first page saying just that along with it should be locked; but cubswoo thought it was too entertaining to lock so it stayed open.

It also has no bearing on what's being discussed right now. There was no cheating, no RMT, no buying of anything; they just claimed faster than us and there was nothing wrong done.

OHH! That's where all his Kaizen hate comes from, I completely forgot he made that thread. Such a bitter bitch lol

 

[Giaganta]

Sorry if I'm not very good but anyway
These are pictures of a lv 1 mule in BD named Kingboos thats in a LS I have never heard of. Now anyone could mistaken this for just a regular mule it has no hints of being a RMT what so ever. This could possibly be a mule Kaizen could have bought from. Just from the looks of it, it seems to be a JP player.

 

[Firestreak]

Yeah, cause the Japanese camp Simurgh nonstop!

 

[Giaganta]

Guess there is no reasoning with the unreasonable.

 

[Darkseifer]

PandeFariMageBender is a LS that Pandetech made.

 

[Giaganta]

Is Pandetech RMT? Think i remember him being NA player.

 

[Darkseifer]

yea hes NA lol

 

[Firestreak]

I remember him being very disliked and eventually banned from this board. It's possible he shells up with RMT but don't remember the specific reasons that he's disliked.

 

[Giaganta]

So there ya go Fire NA LS selling Autumnstone. Guess this proves that non-RMT mules do sell stones.

 

[Giaganta]

I remember him being very disliked and eventually banned from this board. It's possible he shells up with RMT but don't remember the specific reasons that he's disliked.

Now your completely making things up.