Stop buying Ulli stones, you *#%*tards

[hellstorm]

Why does everyone need to call eachother names to get their points across?

this is a flameboard that the difference between a flameboard and a discussion board

 

[hellstorm]

You apparently missed the several times where I have said that I know someone who sold a stone and blazeoffury's posts where he knows someone trying to sell one now.

you act like they sell them daily

 

[hellstorm]

did you read any of the last 700 posts?

did you?

 

[Bajaratt]

Hellstorm, if you're not going to do anything besides spamming retarded one-liner posts that don't actually contribute in any intelligent way, stop posting like a dumbass.

 

[Blazeoffury]

you have not been reading then, people have gave about 20 supporting arguments why buying from bazarr is different from AH

edit and yes speed belt and K club would apply

Noone has gave a legitimate arguement, no one has argued the fact that both ways there's an unknown % that you buy from a legit or from a seller. Why is this? Because noone knows who they aer buying from, the person selling said item remains anonymous unless they are bazaaring from their main character, which a lot of people simply won't do because they use their main character for other things, this has been said repeatedly<sp>. Show me one good supporting arguement that proves the AH is different from buying from a Level 1 Bazaar.

The only difference is, people are willing to gamble on Ochidu's kote, Damascene cloths, Fuma Khayan, Fudo's, Bomb Cores, etc, but they are not willing to gamle on something as big as an autumnstone. I'm sick of the childish <You can tell by a name if it is RMT or not> well what if the character's name is Marco, what if it is wolfgang, mabye a name such as Haydn, or Mozart. Any one of those names could be legit, and any one of those names could be RMT. The true point is there is no way to know exactly who you are buying from, the fact is you are ignorant of the source of the stone, or any of the items you buy off AH daily that support RMT far more then the few Autumnstones that they sell.

 

[Uzor]

Noone has gave a legitimate arguement, no one has argued the fact that both ways there's an unknown % that you buy from a legit or from a seller. Why is this? Because noone knows who they aer buying from, the person selling said item remains anonymous unless they are bazaaring from their main character, which a lot of people simply won't do because they use their main character for other things, this has been said repeatedly<sp>. Show me one good supporting arguement that proves the AH is different from buying from a Level 1 Bazaar.

I've mentioned several times why buying o. kote from AH is not the same as buying an Autumnstone from bazaars. No one ever responded to that, though.

 

[hellstorm]

Noone has gave a legitimate arguement, no one has argued the fact that both ways there's an unknown % that you buy from a legit or from a seller. Why is this? Because noone knows who they aer buying from, the person selling said item remains anonymous unless they are bazaaring from their main character, which a lot of people simply won't do because they use their main character for other things, this has been said repeatedly<sp>. Show me one good supporting arguement that proves the AH is different from buying from a Level 1 Bazaar.

come on as said like 20 times you are facing a person face to face when you are buying from BD bazaar unlike AH where it a turkey shot. The see no evil, hear no evil philosophy don't work here.

Hellstorm, if you're not going to do anything besides spamming retarded one-liner posts that don't actually contribute in any intelligent way, stop posting like a dumbass.

1 line is all it took to bring the point across, and they contribute neophytal has not read last 700 post because his statment show that. You would like everyone to belive that people sell ulli stone daily,that is no where near the case.

 

[Bajaratt]

come on as said like 20 times you are facing a person face to face when you are buying from BD bazaar unlike AH where it a turkey shot. The see no evil, hear no evil philosophy don't work here.

That argument fails because you can't always tell the owner of a bazaar. People just want to hide behind the increased anonymity of the AH, when there's really no difference between buying from a random person on the AH and buying from an unknown bazaar. That's also only 1 argument, the ONLY argument made; you said there were 20 arguments made, where are the rest?

1 line is all it took to bring the point across.

There was no point, you're a fucking retard. "Did you?" is no point, learn to use that lump in your head called a brain. Neophytal's post actually had a point, because he was responding to someone making points that had been refuted several times in the thread already, showing that he hadn't read the whole thing. You, on the other hand, just asked if Neophytal read it, with no point behind your post.

I've mentioned several times why buying o. kote from AH is not the same as buying an Autumnstone from bazaars. No one ever responded to that, though.

I don't remember that, what was your point?

 

[hellstorm]

That argument fails because you can't always tell the owner of a bazaar. People just want to hide behind the increased anonymity of the AH, when there's really no difference between buying from a random person on the AH and buying from an unknown bazaar. That's also only 1 argument, the ONLY argument made; you said there were 20 arguments made, where are the rest?


There was no point, you're a fucking retard. "Do you" is no point, learn to use that lump in your head called a brain.


I don't remember that, what was your point?

Agian how many legit shell in there sound mind would sell uli stones. 0. There one that maybe come out every now and then. By maybe 1 every now then I mean under a blue moon in june when pigs fly.

 

[hellstorm]

There was no point, you're a fucking retard. "Did you?" is no point, learn to use that lump in your head called a brain. Neophytal's post actually had a point, because he was responding to someone making points that had been refuted several times in the thread already, showing that he hadn't read the whole thing. You, on the other hand, just asked if Neophytal read it, with no point behind your post.

yet they been refuted the other way as well which obviously you have not read either, or maybe you have and wont except it.

 

[Blazeoffury]

Agian how many legit shell in there sound mind would sell uli stones. 0. There one that maybe come out every now and then. By maybe 1 every now then I mean under a blue moon in june when pigs fly.

I have Japanese friends who hunt Ulli to sell the stone for fun, don't say noone does it, it's just being naive. Saying noone in their rright mind would sell it is just retarded to say the least. Some people are done with sky, some people don't want to kill byakko, some people like hunting the NMs but not killing the god itself. don't make assumptions off of yourself, just because you and your LS are still and sky doesn't mean every else's is.

I've mentioned several times why buying o. kote from AH is not the same as buying an Autumnstone from bazaars. No one ever responded to that, though.

And you point was? It must not have been much different from everyone elses, because the anonyminty of the AH and the bazaar is the exact same. You have NO WAY TO KNOW WHOSE BAZAAR YOU ARE BUYING FROM the same way you have no way to know who you are going to buy from on AH. You can't allow ignorance on one part but not the other, its hypocriticial.

come on as said like 20 times you are facing a person face to face when you are buying from BD bazaar unlike AH where it a turkey shot. The see no evil, hear no evil philosophy don't work here.

Yes, you do see the person face to face, so.. since you can see the level 1 mule, whose mule is it? Please tell me how you came about this information. Yes there may have been 20 different people arguing the same arguement using all the same points which always end up being a hypocritical arguement because they can't agrue the face that there is no way to find out whose mule you are buying from just the same as you cannot tell ahead of time who you are going to buy from on the AH.

 

[Bajaratt]

yet they been refuted the other way as well which obviously you have not read either.

There was no refutation on neophytal's post, Alanon admitted that he hadn't read the whole thread because it was huge. Your post on the other hand was retarded, because he had been posting throughout the thread and had been keeping up.

Agian how many legit shell in there sound mind would sell uli stones. 0. There one that maybe come out every now and then. By maybe 1 every now then I mean under a blue moon in june when pigs fly.

So no legit player ever sells an ulli stone, but once in a blue moon legit players sell it? Great contradiction there. I know it's not common for Autumn stones to be sold by legit players, I never said otherwise, but it DOES happen. Denying that it happens when it's been shown that it does is complete stupidity on your part.

 

[Damita]

This is so eh... Everybody has opinions. I'm not going to change any minds, but figure I'd chip in. Also, wanted to see what the forum reaction is to a situation... (More out of morbid curiosity)

First let's get this out of the way... Yes I've sold Ulli stones in the past. It happened when I was first getting to 75 and xping with Japanese players at 1-3am est at the Ulli camp, and also when I was in between endgame/sky LS. I'll admit that I only sold a few, but eh w/e. NA players have sold stones before and there's nothing illegitmate about it.

Anyway, in a similar note, in the old days, I used to make scorpion harnesses left and right for a nice tidy profit. I'd buy v.claws from anybody and everybody. Now this was before the uproar on the forums about RMT and it was basically the "Japanese were evil" crap.

So... I probably bought some v.claws from the RMTs camping serket. Do I know for certain? Not really, but logic dictates that I did at some point... I don't know about anybody else, but when I'm in batallia I'm running through all the bazaars as fast as I can looking for whatever. (Used to be v.claws and now dynamis coins.)

So anyway, I'm buying up claws. (This was when Vader, a couple of other japanese crafters, Vires, and myself were selling the majority of the harnesses on the AH.) In turn, I would sell harnesses off in bazaars when the AH was oversaturated. We were all after HQ harnesses and dumped NQs pretty quickly.

At the time, I sold a harness to a certain individual... Let's say person A. I suspected that person A was a gil buyer b/c he was a rank 2 NA THF with an airpass and 5million+ gil... Later some folks confirmed the individual was a gil buyer.

So, my question is....

Is it just as immoral to sell to a gil buyer as it is to buy from a gil seller? (Interested to see what folks say...)

 

[Zalbag]

come on as said like 20 times you are facing a person face to face when you are buying from BD bazaar unlike AH where it a turkey shot. The see no evil, hear no evil philosophy don't work here.

You are hiding behind the fact that the AH doesnt let you see who you are buying from. That is called ignorance. When we say we do not know who the bazaars belong to when we purchase the stones we are ignorant of who we purchase from. By saying we cannot claim ignorace and then go claim ignorance yourself you become a hypocrite.

And since you do not read the 700 posts before hand I'll repeat this comment for you aswell. Go buy your AH items from bazaars in BD don't be lazy. By being lazy your ignorantly supporting rmt.

1 line is all it took to bring the point across, and they contribute neophytal has not read last 700 post because his statment show that.

Your point had no point. Just like all your other posts. You simply either reask the exact same question thinking it makes your point or you come up with all the views and opinions with absolutly nothing to back them up with. I can respect firestreaks and uzors comments because they have some form of evidance to back up their claims. You however fail to come up with your own opinions.

You would like everyone to belive that people sell ulli stone daily,that is no where near the case.

This is true, but you fail to have read the part were we stated he stones were bought over 2-3 months. Not all in 1-2 trips to BD. Maybe you should reread Neo's post, let me quote it again for you.

did you read any of the last 700 posts?

 

[Uzor]

I don't remember that, what was your point?

To sum it up, there's a difference between buying bazaared Autumnstones and o. kotes.

o. kotes never decrease unless people drop them or the account gets banned. That means about 365 o. kotes gets added to the server every year, and that's assuming 1 drop every day, which is unlikely with a pop time of 24 hours. That means that every time someone sell it, the likelyhood that its a gilseller decrease aswell. Second-hand sales, no matter how much you argue that it helps the gil sellers, helps them in no way.

However, in the Autumnstone case, there's a set ammount of about 700 every year, assuming 2 drop every 1,5 days. That means that everytime an autumn stone is used, there's 1 less on the server. And since gilsellers have only been active in sky for about half a year, that's only about 350 stones that have dropped total. Out of those, sky LS's and gilsellers have popped Byakko and wiped. You can't assume that people hold on to all of those Autumnstones all the time, which you seem to do, as proven by this argument:

So out of those 700 stones, 10 which were bought by Kaizen, where are the other 690 stones?

You fail to realize that Kaizen isn't the only shell doing sky. Kaizen pops 10 Byakkos, that's 350-5 (I make it 350-5 for half a year, sicne that's the time gilsellers have been active in sky). God knows how many bought by that other LS mentioned in this thread, and then several which are bought by Japanese LS's, and not to forget those which are legally claimed by other LS's which they have popped.

You also assume everyone holds on to them and pop them at the same time, to make your own arguments look better. To make i clearer, I'll present some better numbers.

Let's say pop time is 14 hours. I know people can camp in for god knows how many hours without seeing him pop. I've camped him for well over 10 hours without seeing him pop several times.

That's 12 stones every week. I'm sure linkshells claim them legally to pop, so let's say linkshells claim 6 of them over the gilsellers. That's probably being generous, although I do admit I haven't been in sky for hellova long time, so it might be more.

That's 6 stones each week that gilsellers can sell. And with BDS buying a few, and I'm sure JP buying a few, that's not a whole lot of stones available. A total of 12 stones i ncirculation per week is far less then the perhaps 700+ kotes every week in circulation.

Fuma Kyahans work the same way, and as for b. hides etc. those drop from other things then only 1 mob. So the circulation of those items are also larger then you make it out to be.

Whe nthe chance of buying an item from a gilseller is 50-75% per week, and the chance of buying fuma kyahans, o. kote, damascene cloth is maybe 5-10%, I wouldn't compare them as 1 and the same.

 

[hellstorm]

There was no refutation on neophytal's post, Alanon admitted that he hadn't read the whole thread because it was huge. Your post on the other hand was retarded, because he had been posting throughout the thread and had been keeping up.


So no legit player ever sells an ulli stone, but once in a blue moon legit players sell it? Great contradiction there. I know it's not common for Autumn stones to be sold by legit players, I never said otherwise, but it DOES happen. Denying that it happens when it's been shown that it does is complete stupidity on your part.

actually when I wrote that i was on that page reading. It beside the point If she did not read because what alanon posted has been backed up.

Nice play on words. to say no legit player has never sold a stone would be naive, but you would like people to think it a common every day occurrence, which is not the case. As for blazefury jp shell when was last time they got a stone? If You know legit people that get stones then why the hell are you/they buying from bazaar anyway.

 

[Blazeoffury]

To sum it up, there's a difference between buying bazaared Autumnstones and o. kotes.

o. kotes never decrease unless people drop them or the account gets banned. That means about 365 o. kotes gets added to the server every year, and that's assuming 1 drop every day, which is unlikely with a pop time of 24 hours. That means that every time someone sell it, the likelyhood that its a gilseller decrease aswell. Second-hand sales, no matter how much you argue that it helps the gil sellers, helps them in no way.

However, in the Autumnstone case, there's a set ammount of about 700 every year, assuming 2 drop every 1,5 days. That means that everytime an autumn stone is used, there's 1 less on the server. And since gilsellers have only been active in sky for about half a year, that's only about 350 stones that have dropped total. Out of those, sky LS's and gilsellers have popped Byakko and wiped. You can't assume that people hold on to all of those Autumnstones all the time, which you seem to do, as proven by this argument:



You fail to realize that Kaizen isn't the only shell doing sky. Kaizen pops 10 Byakkos, that's 350-5 (I make it 350-5 for half a year, sicne that's the time gilsellers have been active in sky). God knows how many bought by that other LS mentioned in this thread, and then several which are bought by Japanese LS's, and not to forget those which are legally claimed by other LS's which they have popped.

You also assume everyone holds on to them and pop them at the same time, to make your own arguments look better. To make i clearer, I'll present some better numbers.

Let's say pop time is 14 hours. I know people can camp in for god knows how many hours without seeing him pop. I've camped him for well over 10 hours without seeing him pop several times.

That's 12 stones every week. I'm sure linkshells claim them legally to pop, so let's say linkshells claim 6 of them over the gilsellers. That's probably being generous, although I do admit I haven't been in sky for hellova long time, so it might be more.

That's 6 stones each week that gilsellers can sell. And with BDS buying a few, and I'm sure JP buying a few, that's not a whole lot of stones available. A total of 12 stones i ncirculation per week is far less then the perhaps 700+ kotes every week in circulation.

Fuma Kyahans work the same way, and as for b. hides etc. those drop from other things then only 1 mob. So the circulation of those items are also larger then you make it out to be.

Whe nthe chance of buying an item from a gilseller is 50-75% per week, and the chance of buying fuma kyahans, o. kote, damascene cloth is maybe 5-10%, I wouldn't compare them as 1 and the same.

I'm not talking about what happens after you buy them, absolutely no one is. That isn't even the arguement at hand. I know there are less autumnstones, and those actually disappear upon each use. But we are talking about how there is no way to know who you are buying from albeit AH or bazaar. Either place knowing the person whom you are going to purchase the said item from is impossible. What happens after it is bought is irrelevent to this arguement.

 

[Blazeoffury]

actually when I wrote that i was on that page reading. It beside the point If she did not read because what alanon posted has been backed up.

Nice play on words. to say no legit player has never sold a stone would be naive, but you would like people to think it a common every day occurrence, which is not the case. As for blazefury jp shell when was last time they got a stone? If You know legit people that get stones then why the hell are you/they buying from bazaar anyway.

The last time they got a stone was during this month I know this for a fact, my friend was selling it for 6M. I have never bought a stone, my Japanese friends don't buy stones, they sell them. Why do they sell them? Because it gives them a little bit of spending cash. They know it's not the best way to make money, they just enjoy the hunt, and they enjoy beating the gilsellers just as much as we do.

 

[hellstorm]

First let's get this out of the way... Yes I've sold Ulli stones in the past. It happened when I was first getting to 75 and xping with Japanese players at 1-3am est at the Ulli camp, and also when I was in between endgame/sky LS. I'll admit that I only sold a few, but eh w/e. NA players have sold stones before and there's nothing illegitmate about it.

Past is the key word there ever since they change the way uli spawn that all changed.

 

[hellstorm]

The last time they got a stone was during this month I know this for a fact, my friend was selling it for 6M. I have never bought a stone, my Japanese friends don't buy stones, they sell them. Why do they sell them? Because it gives them a little bit of spending cash. They know it's not the best way to make money, they just enjoy the hunt, and they enjoy beating the gilsellers just as much as we do.

k then hook kaizen up with jp friend, have jp friend provide stones for kaizen.. everyone happy.