Str <=> Atk

hellstorm said:
well i whould depend if you are able to hit mobs because why have so much atk/str if you cant hit the mob. Yesterday there was a debate in one my linkshells on which is better for ninja tp gain/ evading sh+1, kirin osode, or af+1

kirin osode: Def: 52 MP: 30 STR: 10 DEX: 10 VIT: 10 AGI: 10 INT: 10 MND: 10 CHR: 10 Vs. Light: 50

Scorpion Harness +1: Def: 41 HP: 20 Vs. Ice: -20 Vs. Water: 20 Vs. Dark: 20

Ninja Chainmail: Def: 41 HP: 15 VIT: 3 Enhances Dual Wield Effect
Physical Damage: "Blaze Spikes" effect

Which whould you pick
Click to expand...

hauby :3 if they are lv 75 you do not need evs (unless you are a crap nin) and the STR DEX attack and acc all help
KO is for looks
SH+1 is for long long fights
af1 is for TP gain when you have capped haste and ONLY then as haste% and DW% is not the same
 
hellstorm said:
well i whould depend if you are able to hit mobs because why have so much atk/str if you cant hit the mob. Yesterday there was a debate in one my linkshells on which is better for ninja tp gain/ evading sh+1, kirin osode, or af+1

kirin osode: Def: 52 MP: 30 STR: 10 DEX: 10 VIT: 10 AGI: 10 INT: 10 MND: 10 CHR: 10 Vs. Light: 50

Scorpion Harness +1: Def: 41 HP: 20 Vs. Ice: -20 Vs. Water: 20 Vs. Dark: 20

Ninja Chainmail: Def: 41 HP: 15 VIT: 3 Enhances Dual Wield Effect
Physical Damage: "Blaze Spikes" effect

Which whould you pick
Click to expand...
You're right, focusing on maxing your damage is only after you can actually hit the mob, but then most of this discussion is pertaining to level 75 jobs, so accuracy isn't an issue. Given the TP change, Kirin's osode is probably the best, but I'm not sure how much NIN was effected by the TP change.
 
I'm glad this topic came up.

As many know, I've converted from mage to melee. (i.e. Ninja). In the beginining it was all about evasion, and then it became all about the haste. Well, now that my Ninja is level 57 damage has become more and more nessessary to consider and I'm honestly am not sure where to find information on what modifies what weapon skills. Also, I am not too sure why, but I've really taken a liking to meat for a food choice. And honestly, its not for the sake of being cheap even despite most advocate sushi > all. Not that I have a parser, but it just seems like I do better using meat. It could be possible that this is due to the fact that I'm a mithra.

Does anyone know where I can find a parser? As a parser seems to be about the only way to completely gauge any tests. And, also, is there anyone who could walk me through setting up windower macros? Right now I use the generic SE intergrated macro template that can usually result in me hitting multiple macros to complete the same task since it's nessesary to swap nearly full sets of gear at a time that cannot fit on one macro. Such lovely things that I did not need to focus on as a mage.
 
For some WS data, you can look here.

There's a parser here. He's stopped working on it, but it still works.
 
Ok, so let me see if I understand this correctly. For doing a WS in an equipment slot that I could put something with like +15 ATT and also be able to put something with +1 STR I would be better with the +1 STR verses +15 ATT? The reason this confuses me is because on our paper doll window where it shows your ATT and your DEF STR is not a high increase to attack.

So is it like a "hidden effect" and.. is there ever a point where when chosing equipment of str over att that you would want to pick att? Will 1 STR always be better than 100 ATT or is there a formula involved? If that doesn't make sense let me know and I will try to explain it differently.


I was told that there is also a formula involved with AGI over Evasion, but I've yet to find two sources that say the same thing. I've had some say that Dodge earrings is better than Drone and some who say Drone is better than Dodge-- though, I've just tried Melody and those are nice with song.

edit: I thing I'm pushing the envelope of this forum a bit since my questions are obviously less to do with End game-- but, I guess all roads lead to the same.
 
Last edited:
Spirits Within 4/32 6/32 15/32 ×1 Damage = HP x fTP modifier

Now, what does it mean by the 4/32? That supposed to come out as a decimal, or? I know Spirits Within is a Health Bar modifier, but when it talks about the 100%, 200%, 250%... what do the fractions mean?
 
i think this topic strayed a little off where i was going. STR for ws is a no brainer, even thou with shura head/legs, chivy chain it's still decent acc for ws. i was wondering if anyone knew the what would be the atk cap? so say you had like (as example) 5STR and 60 atk in tping... would that be optimal? or would there be room for more str or more atk.

i've switched to 2 flame rings a while back to tp in because with full GK merit + DM earring, 25 acc with sushi or meat netted me between 88-95% acc. i figured 2 acc rings would gain you only 10 acc, equivilent to life belt, where 2 flame would get you 10 str, not equivilent to warwolf

still open for suggestions thou
 
Torqameda said:
Spirits Within 4/32 6/32 15/32 ×1 Damage = HP x fTP modifier

Now, what does it mean by the 4/32? That supposed to come out as a decimal, or? I know Spirits Within is a Health Bar modifier, but when it talks about the 100%, 200%, 250%... what do the fractions mean?
Click to expand...
SW @ 300% = damage equal to HP basicly
at 100% and 200% hard to say can be random normaly around 120 for 100% and 300 for 200%
 
ds083roadkill said:
i think this topic strayed a little off where i was going. STR for ws is a no brainer, even thou with shura head/legs, chivy chain it's still decent acc for ws. i was wondering if anyone knew the what would be the atk cap? so say you had like (as example) 5STR and 60 atk in tping... would that be optimal? or would there be room for more str or more atk.

i've switched to 2 flame rings a while back to tp in because with full GK merit + DM earring, 25 acc with sushi or meat netted me between 88-95% acc. i figured 2 acc rings would gain you only 10 acc, equivilent to life belt, where 2 flame would get you 10 str, not equivilent to warwolf

still open for suggestions thou
Click to expand...


I believe diminishing returns on Atkk starts for 2-handed weapons around 750ish. Maybe a tad lower. That is from memory though.
 
Reality said:
using meat:
Click to expand...
Is that the format the windower macros still use? I tried those with 3.22 and it didn't work at all; I think the command then was input_kb /equip slot "l337gear".

Kire said:
SW @ 300% = damage equal to HP basicly
Click to expand...
Not really. SW @ 300% = dmg equivalent to 15/32 of your HP.

Say you have 1600hp; a 300% Spirits Within would do 750dmg on the dot. (1600x15)/32.

I'm an advocate of str during TP build, dont know why but I just am. I get razzed a lot for it. As Big said I think you want to start focussing on str when your atk gets to be above 650ish, this will vary based on your race & base str if I remember correctly.
 
CmdrFly said:
I'm an advocate of str during TP build, dont know why but I just am. I get razzed a lot for it. As Big said I think you want to start focussing on str when your atk gets to be above 650ish, this will vary based on your race & base str if I remember correctly.
Click to expand...

Once your attack is above 650, you're pretty much good to go on STR for TP building I've been told. And even when you are using STR, you gain 1 ATK for every 2 STR, so even though your ATK goes down a bit, your still compensate with a little growth of ATK, and STR.

EDIT--

Thanks for the calculations on SW's damage
 
CmdrFly said:
Is that the format the windower macros still use? I tried those with 3.22 and it didn't work at all; I think the command then was input_kb /equip slot "l337gear".


Not really. SW @ 300% = dmg equivalent to 15/32 of your HP.

Say you have 1600hp; a 300% Spirits Within would do 750dmg on the dot. (1600x15)/32.

I'm an advocate of str during TP build, dont know why but I just am. I get razzed a lot for it. As Big said I think you want to start focussing on str when your atk gets to be above 650ish, this will vary based on your race & base str if I remember correctly.
Click to expand...
my bad lol was thinking of video i got of a galka pld doing SW for 2k because of his godly sword lol
 
I'm a huge fan of meat and attack food(red curry as /war is <3), at least in caedamire. I start with my full haste set (about 20%) and then just put on gear till shit cons low evasion I guess.

For WS I gear DEX>ATT>STR.

With zerk and curry I can usually break around 800 attack.
 
Last edited:
ds083roadkill said:
i've switched to 2 flame rings a while back to tp in because with full GK merit + DM earring, 25 acc with sushi or meat netted me between 88-95% acc. i figured 2 acc rings would gain you only 10 acc, equivilent to life belt, where 2 flame would get you 10 str, not equivilent to warwolf
Click to expand...

Going with accuracy rings and swift belt or sword belt +1 would yield better results for TPing.
 
Eulore said:
Going with accuracy rings and swift belt or sword belt +1 would yield better results for TPing.
Click to expand...

hmmm, i'll have to try that... gotta barrow someone acc rings lol

also, anyone know a place/job potent belt might fit in well? looking less and less likely i'ma get it cuz i dont feel it will work for me
 
I personally always saw 5att per 1str (no berserk) as decent, 8att per 1 str as great. But then I'm not the most DD-savvy person out there...

Also, Potent Belt is kindof a good inbetween for WS (compared to, say, Warwolf), if you want a bit of a STR mod but are still worried you'll miss. I'd say it's really good, but that also depends on what the secondary mods of the WS are.
 
mmmm i suppose potent would be good for meat eating dd with multihit ws that dont wanna ws in lifebelt
 
The only benefit of wearing str outside of WS is for the weapon rank-based damage modifier (rank = floor(dmg/9)). And even then, the effect is rather marginal, because if you're wearing enough STR to see a visible difference, you probably don't have enough atk to be high enough of the atk/def curve to be able to see it (unless you're just brutalizing tw mobs).

On merit mobs (T-IT), there is no question that atk > str (other than the 1 atk per 2 str you get as a side-effect) for melee damage (that is, 4 atk will amount to more damage than 1str, for example) even on high-dmg weapons like lances and scythes. The WS case is hairier, as you sometimes need some atk boost on the WS with negative atk modifiers (such as penta thrust, vorpal blade, etc), but if you have berserk/minuet/etc, I think it's fairly agreed upon that boosting the ws stats will get you better results.
 
Mishaela said:
I personally always saw 5att per 1str (no berserk) as decent, 8att per 1 str as great. But then I'm not the most DD-savvy person out there...

Also, Potent Belt is kindof a good inbetween for WS (compared to, say, Warwolf)
Click to expand...

master belt > potent belt for tp'ing

potent or warwolf for WS swap gear~
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top