STR vs Attack and damage output

Veresko

Veresko

Retired from FFXI
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http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sh...443fdb&threadid=40812&perpage=19&pagenumber=1

http://www.moonlight.gr.jp/~el/ffxi/ab_calc.html.en

Damage= (Your STR - Mob VIT) + Weapon Damage * [(Your Atck/ Mob Def)³+ (Random between -0,5 and -,5)]

This formula is of course nothing confirmed, just deduction from people who I assume are pretty good in maths.

I though I'd post that here and see what you guys think.

If I get this right, damage is basically a curve that will raise with each added STR and decrease with each added VIT to the mob.

Attack will help you reach the higher part of that curves.

Also, the author pretends there is a limit to the rising of the curve (the STR bonus you can get, past this limit, each +1 is useless) That limit is determined by your weaponskill and damage.

What to make of all this? Well, if this all holds true, that could help in determining what food and weapon to get. If you STR bonuses are close to your limit, getting a weapon with more DMG will raise that limit, allowing you to raise your DMG curve more.

If your curve (STR bonus and/or weapons DMG) are high enough, getting more attack bonus will help you exploit that curve and reaching the higher ends of it.

Again, I'd like to know what you guys think of this and if there is anything to add.
 
Playing with this formula a bit, you find that the Centered damage (used in the rate that multiplies your weapon's damage) will cap at 2 if your attack is 26% more then the ennemy's defense.

If you take a MNK that can boost his attack several time before a fight, using 2-3 boosts VS and even defense mob (no comment when you check) will cap this, the rest of the boosts will be useless. Therefore, if you already have a boosted attack with equipment, those 3 boosts might even have lower impact. That would suggest that a MNK is much better to invest in STR (that is for damage only, accuracy is not the topic of discussion) then +attack gear, since he can get his attack capped by himself.

Same thing could apply to food. Most food will give you that 26% boost in your attack (note, this will NOT necesseraly equals the 26% cap, since the later is calculated on the ennemy's defense), bringing you closer to the cap. Therefore, STR again is what you would look for to increase your damage, since the extra +attack the equipment might give could be render useless because of the food.

Again, this forumla might be slightly innacurate, but testing it with my 18 MNK, it gave me an average damage equals to what I was doing on gobs in the dunes 2 nights ago, given their defense was equal to my attack BEFORE boosts.

Any thought on this would be nice, come on people! :)
 
If this were true, I'd hit Rarabs for ~200 on my WHM, but I don't...nor is my damage capped (I do 80-110). And I don't think Savanna Rababs have 90 VIT..
 
Mishaela said:
If this were true, I'd hit Rarabs for ~200 on my WHM, but I don't...nor is my damage capped (I do 80-110). And I don't think Savanna Rababs have 90 VIT..
Click to expand...

Well, not necessarily. You forgot to take in account the caps. The first part of to formula is either the difference between your STR and the Rarab's VIT or 24+ 3*(your weapon's damage/9). Let's say your weapon does 27 dmg, that means your cap for the first part is 40. Is the diference between your STR and the rarab's VIT over 40? I honnestly don't know, but let's say it is.

Now, the second is a multiplier of your Dmg weapon, determined by the difference in your attack vs the rarabs def. Again, it caps at 2, which I am sure you are way over. So keeping the same weapon, you are doing 54 for that second part, add the 40 for your base damage and you got 97 of maximum damage.

Keep in mind there is always that random factor. Most of your hits will be for the capped maximum of 97, but some could be sliglthy under, since the second part could produce 50 or even 48, for a total of 88.

Of course, I assumed for the weapon, but you can see that you still won't hit for 200 dmg and that 90-110 seems actually pretty accurate.
 
I've always favored STR over Attack ever since I compared my Temple Gloves to Ochiudo's Kote and found that I did more overall damage with them. At STR70+28 before foods. Use Shura Haidate and Temple Gloves on STR based weaponskills, so thats +37 on Dragon Kick and the likes. Only use coral earrings, Melee Gloves, and Amemit+1 for Attack.

If only I could get Black Belt, and had the gil for Triumph Earring/Rings or Flame Rings, Foragers Mantle, and Alk. Bracelets.

I use Bison Steak/Marbled Steak for food in PTs.
 
There is a problem with the above formula:

As Veresko has done the math, the "Centered damage" is capped when your attack is 26% higher than the mob's defense. Thus, if that condition is met there is no variation to the damage output, which is false because damage varies (although little) even on level 5 monsters in Gustaberg.

There is another problem, I will post it along with the formula I use after I get back from class.
 
There is a problem with the above formula:

As Veresko has done the math, the "Centered damage" is capped when your attack is 26% higher than the mob's defense. Thus, if that condition is met there is no variation to the damage output, which is false because damage varies (although little) even on level 5 monsters in Gustaberg.

There is another problem, I will post it along with the formula I use after I get back from class.
 
Seawolf said:
There is a problem with the above formula:

As Veresko has done the math, the "Centered damage" is capped when your attack is 26% higher than the mob's defense. Thus, if that condition is met there is no variation to the damage output, which is false because damage varies (although little) even on level 5 monsters in Gustaberg.

There is another problem, I will post it along with the formula I use after I get back from class.
Click to expand...

But you have to keep in mind there is always that random factor:

Damage = (Your STR- Mob VIT) + Weapon Dmg* [(your attk/mob def)³ +( Random between -0,5 and 0,5)]

The first term, the STR/VIT one can be capped, the second term, weapon dnmg is fixed and the first part of the third term (att/def) can also be capped, at 2. If that was the end of it, then yes I would say once it's capped, it never changes.

But the random number will affect the 3rd term, therefore affecting the final result.

[(your attk/mob def)³ +( Random between -0,5 and 0,5)] cannot be over 2. So if the (att/def) part is capped at two, any result of the random number between -0,5 and 0 will give a lower damage then the capped. Any result of the random number between 0 and 0,5 will, in return, give the exact same result, because it cannot be more then 0, since the 3rd term is already capped at 2 with the (att/def) ratio.
 
My head hurts when I start thinking about math and formulas relating to this game =/
 
What I know (and give a shit about) is what damage numbers I see fly by...STR helps raise those numbers, as does attack.
Food has caps and you should eat the appropriate foods, lest ye be not performing at your most efficient.

To break it down this much seems silly...Especially when we're talking about numbers that are NOT confirmed. :?
 
I never thought people would get this insane about figuring out the engineering behind the game's mechanics. Attempting to calculate these things out is literally impossible until you can actually produce the code of the game in order to see the developers actual formulas which, I'm guessing, have half a dozen selective statements in them and at least 2 randomizers. Though this formula may be a relatively close calculator, it will be flawed. I'd like to see someone even attempt to figure out a formula for magic damage on mobs, now that would be impressive.
 
I misunderstood the formula, please disregard my last post :D

Ok, these are a few observations:

A. I was chilling in North Gusta the other day killing TW mobs as WAR50. I was using a Zamburak+1. (Dmg: 20)
- When I used Bloody Bolt (Dmg: 1) I did 123 Dmg every shot. (20 + 1 + 20) x 3.0 = 123
- WHen I used Crossbow Bolt (Dmg: 10) I did 150 Dmg every shot. (20 + 10 + 20) x 3.0 = 150
- When I used Holy Bolt (Dmg: 32) I did 216 Dmg everyshot. (20 + 32 + 20) x 3.0 = 216

B. In exp as WHM, whenever I cast Dia II (-10% def), the RNG does 10% more dmg.
C. In exp as WAR, whenever I use Berserk (+25% att), my ranged attack does 25% more dmg.

From those observations I made 2 conclusions:
- (Attack/Defense) is a universal multipiler for ranged attack, which caps at 3.0
- From A, I notice there is an amount of 20 being multiplied by 3.0 I believe this is the amount from (STR - VIT) which caps at 20.

There is a research on WS damage here at ffxionline.com. If you remove the bonus from base attribute (like STR30%) and the TP modifier (fTP), you'll see that my numbers fit the formula. I know that is only ranged attack, but I doubt melee attack would differ much from ranged attack, except for the factor of randomess.

I will modify the formula on that website a bit for normal attack:

Physical Attack Calculation:
D: Base damage of your weapon (e.g., Espadon = 43)
fSTR: difference between your STR and target's VIT (see below).
R: random number of an unknown range determined by fSTR (could be "from 0 to fSTR" or "from fSTR-15 to fSTR)
PDIF: (your ATK/target’s DEF) Caps at 2.4 for melee attacks and 3.0 for ranged attacks.

Melee Damage = (D + R) * PDIF
Ranged Damage = (D + fSTR2) * PDIF (no or very little randomness)

As for the difference between fSTR and fSTR2, they have different caps:

fSTR cap = (D / 9) + 8
fSTR2 cap = fSTR*2 (arrow Dmg is not counted in this case).

*That is what I think the formula is. Take it with a grain of salt if you like :D*
 
This seems really complicated. I've always thought it was a simple figure that STR increased the peaks of the damage curve. And ATKK Increased the entire curve itself.

So basically what it boils down to if you want consistant damage you increase your attk. This will in turn increase your peaks, and increase your low points, and increase your average. If you are merely trying to increase your peak damage without affecting your average or lows you get more STR.

This is why when you have alot of STR you might see a huge variation in the numbers of damage that you have. So yes thfs do benefit from STR since they do all thier damage in 1 hit and not over time, but atk helps too.
 
Ive heard about this formula from a few places. Apparently this ONLY works if your Str is higher than the mobs Vit. As you can imagine...on any exp mobs this will most likely not be the case.

Anderithe yes, it does immensly help a Thief to add Str. When you are loaded with like +30 Dex and +30 Agi, another point of either will make very little difference. On the other hand, a point of Str will add a bit more to your damage. There is also a point when a Thief will be maxed out on Str and any more will not matter whatsoever. Not sure exactly what point this is, but it does exist. Id recommend you think about race. You are a Mithra I think, so you are naturally going to have more Dex and Agi. You can think about adding a bit more Str to your setup and see how it works out. Also, when considering SATA, most thieves dont factor in weapon damage for it. For instance, at leve 50...having a Corsair knife in your main hand at +3 damage over any other dagger will be massive. Hope it helps out a bit.

Faedryth
 
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