Straight from the developer? Oo

[Mokk]

Price Slashed again! unbeatable price from the direct sale. You are buying the gil from the game developers directly, not from the resellers, no hacking , no cheating , guarantee work !

*quote taken from http://www.igxe.com/FinalFantasyXI.cfm not trying to promote the site but >.>

If this wording is true then SE is in violation of their own ToS, and if it's not isn't that false advertising?

 

[Bajaratt]

great, that's all we need. More gil buyers and now they'll think it's ok to buy gil.

 

[Mokk]

just in case a clarification is neccessary:

3.1 Prohibited Activities.
You may not use the Game or PlayOnline for any activities that are illegal, fraudulent, or a violation of the rights of any third party. Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, the following acts and activities are strictly prohibited and shall, without prejudice to any other rights or remedies that SEI may have, be cause for immediate termination of your PlayOnline account and your right to play the Game (or any other services) in connection therewith:

(a) Any activities consisting of selling, purchasing or exchanging “gil” or any other currency that may be used in the Game from time to time, characters, and/or Game items for value (including, but not limited to, any payment in kind and any payment in any currency recognized as legal tender in any country, state, territory or other jurisdiction anywhere in the world) through any means or venue, including, without limitation, Internet auctions or other online exchanges;

 

[Acutie]

I really wish they didn't lose that law suit against the sellers.

 

[Peregrine]

To my knowledge there has been no such suit, ever, in any court in any country. It seems to be a MMORPG wivestale.

 

[Mokk]

agreed, i've yet to find info on any suit involving this situation. Any lawyer who can't point out breach of contract and ride it to the right verdict isn't worth his weight in guano.

 

[Strid]

Seems most game developers are seeing this business, buying virtual currency, as unstoppable. If you can't beat them, and they NEVER will or could, you might as well join them and make a cut for yourself. FFXI just has a sole problem of gil > everything. They'll learn the next go around but for this time they are stuck with the system they created and we blew up, over time. For the ToS talk, they'll just change it, no biggie for them they do reserve that right. Seems like every developer these days are resorting to the Softnyx way but what can ya do? You'll all still play despite the huge inflation it will bring and the bitching and whining you do. Welcome to the new age of online gaming to meet the demand of the fast paced American lifestyle.

 

[Mariox]

I call BS on this. Most likly thay just saying developers selling directly to get people to think "its ok to buy gil".

As I see it... if thay are willing to lie to you, thay are willing to rip you off.

Perhaps just a reason to lower the price without saying "We got too much gil, and buyers are stop buying!"

IF SE can't stop them from selling gil, thay can't stop them from lieing.

 

[Valandil]

look at the freaking URL i-g-X-e.com it's probably as legit as monopoly money. Not to mention just because someone says "straight from the developers" doesn't mean that's the truth. Kind of like those "you have already been selected as a winner" mailings I get once a week.

 

[resipsa]

agreed, i've yet to find info on any suit involving this situation. Any lawyer who can't point out breach of contract and ride it to the right verdict isn't worth his weight in guano.

Perhaps, but it's not as simple as you think.

IGE, Belrion, and other online gil vendors, are not breaching any contract with SE because they do not have any contract with SE, nor have they ever accepted the ToS.

You cannot breach a contract you are not a party to, nor can you be punished for purchasing the fruits of another person's breach.

The only people who are breaching any contract with SE are the gil farmers who sell their gil to the online vendors. They are not employees of the online vendors - they are independent contractors.

This means that if SE wanted to stop gil selling they would have to sue each gil farmer individually, probably in a Chinese court. Now ask yourself, after all the effort and money that would take, what would SE be awarded as damages? SE would have a hard time proving monetary damages since SE does not sell gil (yet).

 

[Direwolf]

I call BS, for such low prices that they advertise it aint that low. Maybe they do get it strait from the developers in certain games, but I highly doubt it for FF XI.

 

[Rones]

IGE, Belrion, and other online gil vendors, are not breaching any contract with SE because they do not have any contract with SE, nor have they ever accepted the ToS.

You cannot breach a contract you are not a party to, nor can you be punished for purchasing the fruits of another person's breach.

You can't distribute and recieve gil without having characters in the game. Thus they have agreed to the ToS. Ever seen what happens when you buy a stolen car even unknowingly? 8)

There is no question about it though, the part about them receiving the money directly from SE is BS. It would cause inflation like we can't imagine if SE just started magically creating gil to sell.

 

[Veteran]

The only people who are breaching any contract with SE are the gil farmers who sell their gil to the online vendors. They are not employees of the online vendors - they are independent contractors.

Bingo.

 

[resipsa]

IGE, Belrion, and other online gil vendors, are not breaching any contract with SE because they do not have any contract with SE, nor have they ever accepted the ToS.

You cannot breach a contract you are not a party to, nor can you be punished for purchasing the fruits of another person's breach.

You can't distribute and recieve gil without having characters in the game. Thus they have agreed to the ToS. Ever seen what happens when you buy a stolen car even unknowingly? 8)

The gil farmers have characters in the game. The online sellers do not.

If you buy a stolen car unknowingly, the true owner can sue you for replevin. The gil being sold by online sellers isn't stolen. It is transferred in violation of the ToS - which is a contract. The farmers are breaching a contract by selling to online sellers. You are breaching a contract by buying from the online seller. The online seller is breaching nothing.

 

[Rones]

The gil farmers have characters in the game. The online sellers do not.

Really? So IGE buys the gil from the farmers and just lets them hold it huh? Same thing when players use to sell gil directly to them? And how do you suppose IGE delivers gil to you if not with characters? Heck, ige even buys and sell characters.

 

[Valoran]

I hope this website IS from SE, and that it is a trap. They just wait a month, send everyone their gil, then crackdown and boot all the gilbuyers. Then maybe we can have our economy back.

 

[resipsa]

The gil farmers have characters in the game. The online sellers do not.

Really? So IGE buys the gil from the farmers and just lets them hold it huh? Same thing when players use to sell gil directly to them? And how do you suppose IGE delivers gil to you if not with characters? Heck, ige even buys and sell characters.

IGE has been doing this for a long time. They are not stupid. IGE arranges the exchange for a fee. IGE puts the buyer in contact with the farmer and pays the farmer his cut. Anyone with an in-game character is an independent contractor.

This arrangement is beneficial to IGE aside from insulating themselves from contract liability. IGE takes a substantial cut of every transaction for doing very little work other than running a web site and taking credit card information.

Furthermore, it would be pretty stupid to pay for hundreds of accounts with a corporate credit card in the name of IGE with IGE's billing address wouldn't it?

 

[Mokk]

BREACH - The violation of an obligation, engagement or duty; as a breach of covenant is the non-performance or violation of a covenant; the breach of a promise is non-performance of a promise; the breach of a duty is the refusal or neglect to execute an office or public trust, according to law.

Breaches of a contract are single or continuing breaches. The former are those which are committed at one single time. A continuing breach is one committed at different times as if a covenant to repair be broken at one time, and the same covenant be again broken, it is a continuing breach. When a covenant running with the land is assigned after a single breach the right of action for such breach does not pass to the assignee but if it be assigned after the commencement of a continuing breach, the right of action then vests in such assignee.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SE ToS/EULA sections that apply:

4.2 Restrictions.
To the maximum extent permitted by law, you may not:
(a) Modify, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Software;
(b) rent, lease, loan, sell, sublicense, distribute, transmit or otherwise transfer the Software, your User or other account-related information (including, but not limited to, your User ID or password information) to any third party;
(c) make any copy of or otherwise reproduce the Software; or,
(d) use the Software or your PlayOnline user account to provide service bureau or time-sharing services, or for any other commercial purpose. The PlayOnline Service and the ability to access PlayOnline are for the personal use of Users only and may not be copied, resold, leased, transferred, exchanged or bartered.

4.4 Revocation of User Rights.
SEI shall reserve the right in its sole discretion to revoke or suspend your PlayOnline user account and your ability to use PlayOnline at any time without prior notice to you, particularly but not limited to if SEI should determine (in its sole discretion) or should reasonably believe that you are responsible for, or have participated in, any of the following (collectively, "Prohibited Activities"):
(a) Providing any false name, address or other registration information to SEI;
(b) Interfering with or obstructing the operation of the PlayOnline Service;
(c) Taking any action that has the effect of tarnishing or otherwise damaging the reputation or credibility of SEI or any of its business partners;
(d) Making available or otherwise using PlayOnline to transmit any Restricted Material;
(e) Offering for sale, selling, or otherwise seeking monetary compensation for
(1) any Software characters (or "avatars"),
(2) any names, abilities, character features or other items available within a game or obtained as a result of game play or through PlayOnline Service,
(3) any points acquired as a result of using the Software or playing any online games in PlayOnline, or
(4) access to any PlayOnline user account;
(f) Harassing, tormenting, intimidating, pestering, obstructing, taking advantage of, or any way hurting or damaging other Users or any third parties or their properties utilizing the PlayOnline Service;
(g) Committing, attempting to commit, or soliciting or attempting to solicit other to commit, any illegal, criminal, inappropriate, inconceivable, or any unwelcome acts;
(h) Impersonating or attempting to impersonate of any employee of SEI or any SEI partner or affiliate, any other user of the Game or the PlayOnline Service, or any other person, in a manner intended to deceive or mislead any third party, or in any effort to access the account of another Game player or PlayOnline user; or
(i) Use of any cheat codes or cheat devices; or
(j) Violating any Rule.
In addition, SEI shall be entitled to terminate the account (immediately and without notice) of any User who was previously suspended or terminated by SEI and who re-registered using different information in order to avoid such suspension or termination. You agree to indemnify and hold SEI harmless from and against any losses or damages sustained by SEI as a result of your engaging in any Prohibited Activities, and you further agree to reimburse SEI for any and all expenses incurred by SEI in remedying the effects of such action.

5.7 Indemnification.
You will indemnify, defend, and hold SEI harmless against any and all claims, suits, actions, expenses, attorney and other legal fees and costs arising from your use of the PlayOnline Service or the Software and relating to
(a) your breach of any provision of this Agreement, or the inaccuracy of any of your representations in this Agreement or made in connection with your registration for a PlayOnline user account;
(b) your violation or infringement of any proprietary or privacy rights of any third party;
(c) any User content or information you provide or otherwise generate, including, without limitation, your transmission of any unlawful, libelous, offensive, or defamatory content, or content deemed obscene or harmful to minors; or
(d) any third-party claims arising out of or relating to your use of the PlayOnline Service or the Software.

3.1 Prohibited Activities.
You may not use the Game or PlayOnline for any activities that are illegal, fraudulent, or a violation of the rights of any third party. Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, the following acts and activities are strictly prohibited and shall, without prejudice to any other rights or remedies that SEI may have, be cause for immediate termination of your PlayOnline account and your right to play the Game (or any other services) in connection therewith:

(a) Any activities consisting of selling, purchasing or exchanging “gil” or any other currency that may be used in the Game from time to time, characters, and/or Game items for value (including, but not limited to, any payment in kind and any payment in any currency recognized as legal tender in any country, state, territory or other jurisdiction anywhere in the world) through any means or venue, including, without limitation, Internet auctions or other online exchanges;
(b) The use of or participation in the Game for the purpose, in furtherance of, or in preparation for committing any illegal acts (including, by way of example but not limitation, any kind of gambling) or otherwise violating any applicable local, state, national or international law, or any rules or regulations promulgated thereunder;
(d) The unauthorized use, duplication, transmission, display, performance or distribution of any items owned by you or third parties, or any other commission of any act of copyright, trademark, or patent infringement, trade secret infringement or misappropriation, or any other violation of any intellectual property or other proprietary right;



... now then ...

RMT companies facilitate a continuing breach of contract via employing third party contractors to breach their contracts knowingly, making them partially responsible for said breach via association and recieving a % of currency on that breach making them an accessory to the breach on multiple levels.

Regardless of how anyone would love to twist this around and say the providers could never get a prosecution on these situations it's utter BS. Not only could a provider sue the company providing RMT for damages and possible larceny/theft of proprietary or intellectual properties they could then sieze all their records and begin banning accounts at will. The fact of the matter is the outlets for RMT are so numerous it would be counter-productive to cost measures for them to do so.

I said it before and i'll say it again; eventually money packages (allowances if you will) will be added to most MMO's at a premium cost as to make sure your not-so-serious gamers can not feel like complete gimps while all the while providing extra funds to the developers. This is the ultimate solution to RMT problems and would only stand to boost revenue for the developer in question. Any developer who doesn't arrive at this conclusion within the next 5-15 years is going to end up dropping off the face of the MMO scene

 

[resipsa]

{Taking a deep breath}

BREACH - The violation of an obligation, engagement or duty; as a breach of covenant is the non-performance or violation of a covenant; the breach of a promise is non-performance of a promise; the breach of a duty is the refusal or neglect to execute an office or public trust, according to law.

IGE has no obligation, engagement or duty to SE. IGE has not entered into a covenant with SE. IGE has made no promises to SE.

Breaches of a contract are single or continuing breaches. The former are those which are committed at one single time. A continuing breach is one committed at different times as if a covenant to repair be broken at one time, and the same covenant be again broken, it is a continuing breach.

If you could establish a breach by IGE it might be a continuing breach, but you can't.

When a covenant running with the land is assigned after a single breach the right of action for such breach does not pass to the assignee but if it be assigned after the commencement of a continuing breach, the right of action then vests in such assignee.

When you purchase real property (land) there is sometimes a restrictive covenant in the deed. Usually they are restrictions against further subdivision, which are created by the land developer to preserve property values in the development. When your seller purchased the land he agreed with his seller to abide by the covenant and to only sell to future buyers who also agree to abide by the covenant. Gil is not real property, and it is not transferred by deed. In order for a restrictive covenant to be enforceable against a subsequent purchaser, the subsequent purchaser must have knowledge of the covenant, which is normally proven by the deed.

Now - I skimmed the ToS/EULA you supplied. I did not see anything in there that looked like a restrictive covenant. If there was, it would be pretty strange. "You are not allowed to sell gil or characters, but if you do sell gil or characters in violation of this agreement, you agree to make the person you sell it to agree to abide by this agreement" ?

Even if this bizarre covenant was in the ToS/EULA, IGE is not buying the gil or character - THEY ARE ONLY BROKERING THE EXCHANGE.

... now then ...

RMT companies facilitate a continuing breach of contract via employing third party contractors to breach their contracts knowingly, making them partially responsible for said breach via association and recieving a % of currency on that breach making them an accessory to the breach on multiple levels.

Partially true. But there is no cause of action for facilitating a breach of contract. There is a cause of action for "Tortious Interference" but that is used for egregiously anti-competitive acts designed to put another company out of business.

Regardless of how anyone would love to twist this around and say the providers could never get a prosecution on these situations it's utter BS. Not only could a provider sue the company providing RMT for damages and possible larceny/theft of proprietary or intellectual properties they could then sieze all their records and begin banning accounts at will.

An intellectual property lawsuit maybe. I don't practice in that area, so I don't know. However, until now this debate was solely about whether there is a breach of contract action.

The fact of the matter is the outlets for RMT are so numerous it would be counter-productive to cost measures for them to do so.

Exactly. Because SE would have to sue each gil farmer and each gil buyer individually.

I said it before and i'll say it again; eventually money packages (allowances if you will) will be added to most MMO's at a premium cost as to make sure your not-so-serious gamers can not feel like complete gimps while all the while providing extra funds to the developers. This is the ultimate solution to RMT problems and would only stand to boost revenue for the developer in question. Any developer who doesn't arrive at this conclusion within the next 5-15 years is going to end up dropping off the face of the MMO scene

I agree.

 

[Mokk]

I can dig, for the most part. Unfortunately this could go in circles forever it's simply a point of symantics, i would argue the breach of contract wouldn't be possible without the third party allowing for it to happen and that they were not only knowingly providing the service but benefiting monetarily off of an illegal transaction they facilitated to the end user making them partially responsible or at the very least an accessory to the illegal transaction which would open them up for prosecution by SE.

'Course i'm no lawyer, i just spent alot of time in a courtroom in my younger days and found that so long as your tongue is silver and your symantics aren't off by so much as a beat, it's not the law that matters just a well illustrated point in cases where there isn't much in the way of physical evidence.