Sub Jobs and YOU!

[Tristam Green]

Manage this t(^_^t) lol.

I lol'd.

 

[duncanrun]

Lol taru don't have to manage their mp... Right before I quit I had close to 1200mp on my blm. And even though I was lowering my damage slightly, I would still outdamage 95% of the other blms I ran across. Manage this t(^_^t) lol.

I assume a taru whm with 1200mp would be in the same situation.

As an Elvaan whm I can easily break 1200 at 75 although I do it having 100+ more hp that most tarus I see with the same amount.

 

[Vilurum]

My largely irrelevant suggestion is for Mabel to axe the /p lines in the buff macros (Lullaby's arguable, helps people know not to hit something). By that level, people either know what the buffs do or they should (and if not they can ask). And anyone (besides the bard) who's a. running around between mage and melee area and b. can't bother to watch the actual chatlog for the casting of songs themselves, can suffer with the wrong buffs for a bit.

Oh, I should probably also interject - at 65, BRD/WHM has 91 enhancing. WHM/BLM has 202 enhancing, assuming both are capped and unmerited and not using any +skill. That's a 22 elemental resistance difference from your Barfiras. Not hugehugehuge, no, but from my own fun times with Erucas on WHM, I did the Barfira myself for that reason (stopped resting just before pull came in, Haste, run in, Barfira as pull arrives, run away). Of course, being a BRD myself, I'm also good at timing myself around BRD songs to avoid losing my precious ballads, *or* I subject myself to the rule above, and put up with it because it's my own fault.

When it's a case of using a barspell for placebo effect because it takes way more than you'll ever get, to start resisting stuff, then yeah, let a BRD do that, but they actually work nicely on Eruca breath, so use a good Barfira.

 

[Eormanric]

Saliene was just trying that out, i told him how fun it was in ballista. (which it is, way better than war to sub in ballista) and he just wanted to try it in exp, so simmer down. He even told me after that he was going to stick to war sub.

 

[Alexxia]

BRD was hitting it so I wouldn't get hit with songs.

minor point but maybe thats why ppl were being hit with incernerate for so much. brds don't naturally have enhancing magic, and bar spells do better with higher enhancing skill.

 

[Kotsu]

My largely irrelevant suggestion is for Mabel to axe the /p lines in the buff macros (Lullaby's arguable, helps people know not to hit something). By that level, people either know what the buffs do or they should (and if not they can ask). And anyone (besides the bard) who's a. running around between mage and melee area and b. can't bother to watch the actual chatlog for the casting of songs themselves, can suffer with the wrong buffs for a bit.

Oh, I should probably also interject - at 65, BRD/WHM has 91 enhancing. WHM/BLM has 202 enhancing, assuming both are capped and unmerited and not using any +skill. That's a 22 elemental resistance difference from your Barfiras. Not hugehugehuge, no, but from my own fun times with Erucas on WHM, I did the Barfira myself for that reason (stopped resting just before pull came in, Haste, run in, Barfira as pull arrives, run away). Of course, being a BRD myself, I'm also good at timing myself around BRD songs to avoid losing my precious ballads, *or* I subject myself to the rule above, and put up with it because it's my own fault.

When it's a case of using a barspell for placebo effect because it takes way more than you'll ever get, to start resisting stuff, then yeah, let a BRD do that, but they actually work nicely on Eruca breath, so use a good Barfira.

The point I was just about to bring up....

Fuck worrying about getting hit with songs, he can come back to you and cast more ballads. Simple fact is, you need to get off your ass and cast barfira yourself. Obviously, without a possible argument, a main job whitemage will have a higher enfeebling than sub-job whitemage. If you're enhancing magic is not over 160 by 63 (just guessing that's the level you are at against Eruca) then you've obviously failed at some point. Of course, you don't seem to care that a Galka whm is gimped compared to every other job. Fuck the gear, it's simple fact. Cast Regen 2 (at that level, 3 @ 65 I think) as much as possible, haste the ninja and monk, direct the proper subjobs before leaving, make sure no one is /anon. Whether you're leader or not, you are investing time into the party. Get the fuck over it if you're not responsible enough to direct shit properly.

The sum things up in my paragraph, all you do is come on these fucking boards and bitch and moan about every little fucking thing. Sometimes, you're right. This time, you're wrong. Why? Galka Whitemage is fucking gimp; Better then shitty equipped other whm's but worse than mildly to nicely equipped anything else. Before you bitch about their subs, look back at yourself and accept the blame for even using the fucking Halvung portal before you told them verbatum: "Change those fucking gimp ass subs before we go." And don't go until they do. And, of course, finally don't make excuses for why you're too lazy to press the "8" key, cast your barfira macro, then press the "2" key back and have the Brd refresh your ballad. That should be clock work.

 

[Vilurum]

Well to be fair, when you're spamming cures trying to keep people alive, even important buffs may get slipped, and a reliable Barfira from a BRD is better than an unreliable one from a WHM. There were way more problems with the party, between subjobs and strategy, than the difference in elemental resistance from Barfira, but it's also true that a weaker Barfira did contribute. (Oh and, with good MP management, all the more MP a WHM really needs is like 400ish for most situations at high levels, less at low levels. The rest of the MP pool is basically a backup to dip into in case of emergencies or bad parties. Galkas are quite capable of getting plenty enough MP.)

(Also, if your enhancing magic is in painful need of skillups, protip: go to Besieged, find some Volunteer or other, and spam Protect 1 on them and pray that no well-meaning person gives them a better version forcing you to find another NPC or cast a more MP-intensive spell. Casting healing and enhancing spells on Besieged NPCs, FYI, gives skillups at about the same rate as casting spells on mobs (and Besieged NPCs are apparently all 75+, since they can cap you), so enhancing is actually fast to skillup, and healing doesn't require undead for good skillup rates.)

 

[Kotsu]

Hey, he's bitching that he got 3500 XP? You can pull a lot faster knowing the WHM has 700 more MP left than seeing he has 300 amirite? The whole situation was retarded. Re-fucking-tarded. I'm tired of the bandwagon Meeze-followers who don't have the balls to tell him what it is. He's wrong in this scenario. Right in some, but wrong in this one. Take responsibility for what you didn't do as well as did do.

 

[Zaltana]

exping off those damn crawlers was your first mistake. the dhamals in bibiki bay are much more manageble, esspecially when they zerk themselves. plus they dont get super buffed by the day or weather like those maggots do. and those things' incinerate laughs in barfira's face.

i've partied with kayn a few times. that party seems his one slip up cause he was a great SATA partner for elph when we partied in uleguarnd range. as for the mnk/sam idk. i've only partied with one once and i cant remember how it went. kayn probably will stick with /sam or /war from now on. imma have a chat with our wayward monk from that party.

 

[xlucifelx]

We got like 4k in the 30 minutes Meeze was there, at 65 that's pretty damn decent and no one was dying. Meeze just doesn't like to put a little effort into things XD but yeah, I suppose Meeze did have a right to complain, at times the incinerate was going all over the place because we couldn't hold it still.

Our plan at the time was the DRG would SA/WS behind the mob to turn it while I SATA/WS the NIN, which was working most of the time. The MNK was just being silly and fooling around, but like I said . . . good EXP, no deaths, I don't see the problem lol.

 

[xlucifelx]

exping off those damn crawlers was your first mistake. the dhamals in bibiki bay are much more manageble, esspecially when they zerk themselves. plus they dont get super buffed by the day or weather like those maggots do. and those things' incinerate laughs in barfira's face.

i've partied with kayn a few times. that party seems his one slip up cause he was a great SATA partner for elph when we partied in uleguarnd range. as for the mnk/sam idk. i've only partied with one once and i cant remember how it went. kayn probably will stick with /sam or /war from now on. imma have a chat with our wayward monk from that party.

Meeeh, we had a NIN tank, and he was only 63 . . . and no BLM, I'm not sure if the Dhamals would have went down as easily as we liked them too, I don't think a NIN should fight those until he's at least 65.

 

[Vilurum]

Hey, he's bitching that he got 3500 XP? You can pull a lot faster knowing the WHM has 700 more MP left than seeing he has 300 amirite? The whole situation was retarded. Re-fucking-tarded. I'm tired of the bandwagon Meeze-followers who don't have the balls to tell him what it is. He's wrong in this scenario. Right in some, but wrong in this one. Take responsibility for what you didn't do as well as did do.

Yes, but the whole "a lot of the fault lies with you merely because you're a galka and everyone knows galkas shouldn't be mages" argument is very *very* weak. Any race can get a perfectly healthy MP pool (tarus can just do that more cheaply).

And it's also worth pointing out that the situation gets bad enough that the WHM pulls hate by having to cure so much, a galka WHM is gonna be more likely to live through that situation (or at least live longer and keep people alive longer and have more time to *use* their MP) than a taru WHM, assuming more or less the same gear. And if you're gonna point out that's a flimsy argument (which it is, I'll admit that quite upfront), just bear in mind that it's pretty much your own argument spun around in the other direction.

Yes, the gimpier BRD Barfira instead of WHM Barfira was something *he* could have done, but that doesn't change the MNK/SAM (who was told to sub WAR), or the DRG/THF. That doesn't change the attempt to skillchain with jobs that would be better off spamming TP. That doesn't change the poor execution of what SATA'ing there was. That doesn't change that people were standing in positions that would result in 2+ people getting incinerated every time, rather than 1. That doesn't change the fact that a NIN shouldn't have even needed TA help for hate-holding at that level (particularly considering the subs of the other three lowering their potential damage).

I don't really care if it's Meeze or not, I can identify problems with the party, and the fact that the healer happened to be a galka was not high on the list (if it were a galka who had poor MP management *on top of that*, well that'd be a concern, but the same would be true for any race). The gimpier Barfira was higher on the list, but the other issues (see previous paragraph), whether the OP was Meeze or someone I'd never heard of ... *waaaaay* bigger issue.

I pointed out the Barfira thing for the sake of being fair (and also for the sake of being educational in case he or anyone else didn't know how important it was to have someone with mainjob high/capped enhancing to do the Barfira on erucas), but that doesn't suddenly shift the entire blame to Meeze, it merely means that he's not *completely* devoid of blame.

Beware when using terms like bandwagon, lest someone might suspect your argument of being on a, shall we say, anti-Meeze bandwagon? Try for a little objectivity, give credit and blame to all sides as they deserve it.

 

[Zaltana]

spamming TP it for cannon parties not traditional ones. and that wasnt a cannon by any means. i actually give them credit for at least trying to SC in a world where that perticuler art seems to have been forgotten. it already been stated that the monk and the drg were testing out new subs anyway. meeze was just in the wrong party at the wrong time thats all.

 

[Vilurum]

If jobs hit 100% TP at different rates, and their SC WS is enough weaker than their spam WS that it makes up for the skillchain effect (EDIT: this is especially true for DRGs, Penta Thrust is awesome but SCs horribly), and there's nobody to MB ... then cannon or non cannon, it's better to spam TP. SCs are very very good things *when* they're good, but they're not always good.

 

[Bajaratt]

As an Elvaan whm I can easily break 1200 at 75 although I do it having 100+ more hp that most tarus I see with the same amount.

That's only with /smn and wearing zenith, so you're sacrificing other stats for pure MP.

 

[Mishaela]

spamming TP it for cannon parties not traditional ones. and that wasnt a cannon by any means. i actually give them credit for at least trying to SC in a world where that perticuler art seems to have been forgotten. it already been stated that the monk and the drg were testing out new subs anyway. meeze was just in the wrong party at the wrong time thats all.

Depends on the setup and what you're fighting...sometimes, for the sake of the party, it's better to just not SC. Setting up to do Light on Eruca is sortof a waste of time and effort, but on the other side, closing Distortion for something like 900+450 is gonna get that DD killed incredibly quick. =/

*edit* In regards to this topic - I do agree that Meeze should've tried to go the extra mile and use Barfira himself, though Incinerate is nearly impossible to resist if the Eruca uses it above 75%HP as is...in regards to him "always whining about bad parties", I've partied with Meeze before - he points out faults and actually does start out quite patient, and a party hasto be pretty stubborn/inflexible for him to get pissed, believe it or not.

I personally have no problem with SAM/THF; they can make great hate-planters and SC closers. Never seen a MNK/SAM in my life though, and I didn't know anyone even used DRG/THF nowadays...moreso, I always saw /THF as a means to prevent the job from getting hate. DRG has High Jump and Super Jump, which, doesn't that make subbing THF a bit silly? All the same, from what I've read, the DRG's subbing WAR from now on so I think that's all fine now. =P

That being said, I'd say the only terribly dumb ones in this instance is the MNK/SAM who went anon, and the BRD who daresay said to "deal with it" and then actually made jabs at Meeze based on his race. People need to realize that max MP is overrated - if you only need [x] MP per fight and can have that much back during/inbetween said fights, then the rest of the MP pool is gonna just sit there for links or general emergencies anyhow (unfortunately, this party seemed to be having alot of those - but you can't blame the WHM for having below-average max MP in this case, you should be blaming the people who are constantly standing in bad spots. It's not at ALL tough to TP at the mobs side and then move to the respective spot to SA/TA...I mean come on)

 

[duncanrun]

That's only with /smn and wearing zenith, so you're sacrificing other stats for pure MP.

no as blm with only zenith pants (that can be macroed for AF2 bar spells) when I usually have around 1100ish though cause I like the set up better. I dont know what other stats I would need besides the bar spells for mobs Im not going to be enffebing them. Most tarus I run into have around the same mp as me but 100-200 less hp. Although not being Galka not sure the same is true for them.

Edit checked gear its zenith mitts and legs sorry. Also I was counting merits.

 

[Daggett]

I think a lot a people are either blind or just really don't read what other people say on these boards. The DRG in question pointed out before that he doesn't sub THF normally and was just trying it out for this PT. No where did he say he's been having problems on what he thinks he should be subbing, he asked what he should sub for the PT, no one really said anything apparently, and thusly he choose THF. Will he ever do it again? Probably not, but he just wanted to try it out.

Also to whomever it was that decided to tell Meeze to get off whm because he won't put up with people being retarded (I think it was either dagger or Kayn), just because you were stupid enough to put up with it doesn't mean he has to be. Some people value their time ingame, and wasting it with retards isn't very high on their to-do list.

Obviously another point is missed, but whatever.

Look you're always going to come across bullshit in this game, if it takes you about 30 mins to realize that nothing else can be done to make things possibly better and then come and complain about it like it's the worst fucking thing that could possibly happen to you then what the fuck are you even playing for?

God damn suggest a new area to go to or make it fucking crystal clear that they really did something stupid and ask them to go change. Is it that fucking hard or is it just too much to do? Just considering the fact that none of them were "bad" players It's more than likely they would really listen if it were made clear, but hey let's just ignore that fact and get onto them for some bullshit that they didn't put on the right sub for one PT, I guess that means they do it all the time.

I just feel there was a lot of miscomunication here from everyone, just a mistake which could have probably been fixed for the better but was ignored.

 

[meeze]

Saliene was just trying that out, i told him how fun it was in ballista. (which it is, way better than war to sub in ballista) and he just wanted to try it in exp, so simmer down. He even told me after that he was going to stick to war sub.

He asked the party which sub, he was told war, he went anon and subbed sam.

If he hadn't asked, and was seeking /sam, fine, but it is still a retarded sub.

 

[Mishaela]

God damn suggest a new area to go to or make it fucking crystal clear that they really did something stupid and ask them to go change. Is it that fucking hard or is it just too much to do? Just considering the fact that none of them were "bad" players It's more than likely they would really listen if it were made clear, but hey let's just ignore that fact and get onto them for some bullshit that they didn't put on the right sub for one PT, I guess that means they do it all the time.

Did you miss the part where the MNK was told to change his SJ and went /anon? The part where Meeze mentioned asking them to switch to WAR? Hell, it's even in the screenshot that he's telling them to stop standing in Incinerate/Slow range. Also in the screenshot, clear as day, is one of them telling Meeze to "deal with it". They all argued or as to why they should sub /WAR once Meeze gave up on them. It's not at all like he didn't try to fix the party or give advice, it was just ignored or even rejected for the most part.

I just feel there was a lot of miscomunication here from everyone, just a mistake which could have probably been fixed for the better but was ignored.

Huge maybe.