Summoner Discussion

[K. Ishitar]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Astral_Flow

quick question

Normally when we use our 2hr we just summon an avatar and blow everything to pieces and wait to recharge

according to this site could it be better to

Cast the highest tier spirit(as in accordance to your level) and let them nuke away then when your mp is barely enough summon then finish it off

Example

Lets say I'm a 34 Summoner with every spirit except light dark

I use astral flow then I summon my air spirit and according to the site it should use more aggresive magic (ie nukes)

the astral flow doesnt include free spirit perp so i let it drain and let my spirit keep nuking then when my mp is strained near limit I summon any avatar and finish it


Or...

Astral Flow

If even with the most +skill the spirit may not be casting enough nukes so after each nuke dismiss and summon another element from powerful to least powerful and rotate(which I doubt we will have to do) ie lv 34 Air Spirit Aero II> Water Spirit Water II> Earth Spirit Stone II>etc.

Then when mp barely meets the requirements use judgmentbolt,etc.


I ask because

A. We smns can get our smn skill far up(the higher skill you have in relation to the mob the more likely it will use more powerful magic, there is also what the mob cons to you which is an important factor but I think with +skill it can be reduced or negated)due to the recent buff to the smn class being able to skill up magic with blood of rage and ward much faster

B. It seems a bit too good to be true considering no source is 100% reliable(I will test regardless of input but much is needed)

C. Spirit nukes are fairly powerful in their own right

If this does work then there could be a problem 50+ we get AM which as blms know take forever to cast(19.25secs)

All of the +skill is 50+ meaning I couldnt give an accurate test

The spirit will cast its most powerful spell or am some spirits are tricky to get am to proc ie ice spirit with freeze.

Could the time be better spent waiting for cooldown and using 2-3 judgment bolts,etc. or using spirits which dont use our blood pact of rage

either way something interesting could come of it no?

 

[Zerayla]

Those are some good questions, and though I don't have any answers I do have another question to add (but not to get off-topic from the original questions asked)

When do you SMNs typically find use for the Spirit Pacts? I don't think in my entire FFXI career i've seen them used aside from being summoned outside Rolanberry for skillups.

 

[K. Ishitar]

we generally dont just for skill up

we can use light spirit to help heal a party or buff us (smn> person closest of party,etc.)

Or the hidden fact that when soloing you can summon it to take hate with a big nuke since the chance of the spirit using a nuke is almost guarranteed if the hate is centered well on the smn

 

[Negorissimo]

You will have to cap SMN Skill in order to rely on spirit nuking, at lvl 34 it's 105. At that lvl your best attack is Ifrit's Double Punch. You can try Tail Whip too.

In my experience spirits are a waste of MP and I've been skill capped all my time lvling as SMN. I spent months skilling under the tree by Jeuno's exit to Battalia...

The only spirit I trust is Light because it gives me Protect IV(cast Regen on yourself because thats the 1st spell it likes to do...).

 

[Mishaela]

Spirits are mainly useless because pet AI, whether it be summoned monsters or pet AI, is terribly weak. By the time your element even starts to cast magic (which from my experience has been anywhere from 30 seconds to 5 minutes, @ 289 summoning magic) your MP pool will be badly hurt as is, and it'll usually be junk like DoTs and Enfeebling spells to start. Maybe there's some way to get them to cast sooner and stick to stronger spells, but from my experience it just turns into a 1200MP cost for a DoT, Enfeeb, and a IV/AM spell.

 

[CmdrFly]

How are you recovering enough MP between Astral shots? You only have a minute to gain back whatever it is, 2x or 3x your smn level.

Ethers... well honestly I've never used one so I don't know if they leave you medicated, but between a Spirit perp cost and the meager Auto-Refresh at that level even a Yagudo Drink seems like it isn't enough.

I know precious little of the job, but whenever I popped Astral Flow I know I had to rest for I'm guessing 35-40 seconds before I had enough MP to pop another one.

 

[Skaw]

Only Pro-Ether, and Hyper Ether medicates.

Oh, and Drops. But Drops should really be common knowledge by now =/

 

[Kiere]

How are you recovering enough MP between Astral shots? You only have a minute to gain back whatever it is, 2x or 3x your smn level.

Ethers... well honestly I've never used one so I don't know if they leave you medicated, but between a Spirit perp cost and the meager Auto-Refresh at that level even a Yagudo Drink seems like it isn't enough.

I know precious little of the job, but whenever I popped Astral Flow I know I had to rest for I'm guessing 35-40 seconds before I had enough MP to pop another one.

When I'm leveling smn/using smn for a mission etc. I always carry a few ethers on me. Hi-ethers do not leave you medicated. Generally I'll use a yag drink and a couple of ethers and be ready when the bp timer is up.

 

[CmdrFly]

Well that'd make sense. Nevermind my whole spiel then.

 

[Negorissimo]

2~3 Ethers should do the trick when the minute is up.

 

[Mishaela]

Astral Flow cost is (level)*2MP. If you're low-level (rather, until level 20), a Yagudo Drink will be enough to get your MP back before the cooldown is over at long as you do nothing else in that time. Will afterwards need an Ether, and later on a Hi-Ether, but unless you're keeping your avatar out this entire time (which 9/10 of the time is pointless, at least pre-L70) there really shouldn't be a need to use Ethers since you can more or less just rest a tic or two and still have time to recall your avatar and be ready to go again.


Now that I think about it...Astral Flow probably has the most diminishing return of all 2-hour abilities out there; rather, it becomes more useless as you become higher level...Post-70 it's only good for free perpetuation cost and nothing more. Astral Pot helps their AOE abilities a slight amount, but it's still not enough to warrant using...maybe this isn't the case with free elementals though?

 

[Zaltana]

i never rely in spirits either. and for that matter i rarely use my astral flow only ability much either. i simply use it fenrir fight style. get MP back while using the lvl 70 BP's every time the timer is up. that seem like better DMG total overall.

when exping i always astral flow before i lvl up so i can MB with the astral flow spell. other then that i rarely use it.

 

[Vilurum]

Astral Flow's big boom is awesome for lowbie exping if you have someone train a bunch of linking mobs that are VT-ish to you. And of course for certain fights like Promyvions and those Merc Kris mobs and certain BCNMs. But as a general rule, the higher level you get, the less useful the 2-hour becomes.

 

[Negorissimo]

When everyone Astral Flows they go for the 2~3 attacks, then get done with it.

What I do is:

1- Use the highest DMG Bloodpact consecutively untill NEGO gets close to the MP number that will allow him to nail the Astral Flow.

2- Hit the 2 Hour Button.

3- Try to nail 3 Attacks. ^^

Magic will be gone anyways, so get the most of it before starting up the 2 Hour.

 

[K. Ishitar]

Spirits are mainly useless because pet AI, whether it be summoned monsters or pet AI, is terribly weak. By the time your element even starts to cast magic (which from my experience has been anywhere from 30 seconds to 5 minutes, @ 289 summoning magic) your MP pool will be badly hurt as is, and it'll usually be junk like DoTs and Enfeebling spells to start. Maybe there's some way to get them to cast sooner and stick to stronger spells, but from my experience it just turns into a 1200MP cost for a DoT, Enfeeb, and a IV/AM spell.

There are some factors to consider

A. Chances are the mob has been debuffed by a whm or rdm which means the spirit wont cast debuffs at least I like to believe that there are good red mages out there that keep them up

B. According to the link Astral Flow decreases the time needed for spirits to proc spells and increases the chance that they are more aggressive

C. Even if it doesnt cast any more nukes after it has intially nuked you can dismiss and move to the "second" strongest in accordance to your level

As to address CmdrFly's question about mp regain

I forgot to say that it's a one or two shot thing not the usual 3 attacks of astral flow

Pop spirits let them nuke(assuming that my plan works) then dismiss and resummon the next strongest until your mp satifies the condition barely then pop astral flow attack then rest for the next( in exp there shouldnt be a next this will likely be in more dangerous events >_>)

My nukes do okay from spirits they average 110-160 so even if half resisted it still adds more damage than just one astral flow attack alone so potentially you could add maybe 3 100 nukes to your 560( thats what ramuh did yesterday with no resist to an exp mob)

I didnt think about mp recovery but that helps no you cant recover mp with avatar or spirits out but it shouldnt matter the avatar does enough damage to get instant hate and killed, if it is a full resist with no hate dismiss rest up and attempt again

 

[K. Ishitar]

bump still trying to gather input I'm deciding to lv smn to 50 and use my austere robe,etc. and test but input from more or cricitcism on what I said could make a new "technique" with the Astral Flow which is a longshot but I'll figure something out