Summoner makes me want to quit.

[Kyp]

I think the changes with the balancing will make summoner a lot more fun too. But I must admit, whilst leveling with a static group in my linkshell we had to use a summoner as a main healer because when we'd set up.. we didn't have a white mage. Usually there was 1 white mage seeking, and I'd send them a tell. No response 99.9% of the time.

I also believe summoner isn't meant to main heal, people just fall back on it because almost No one wants to level white mage. I don't think it's that bad a job. I'll say this Trippy. Once I start my new job we were talkin about it'll likely be 3rd shift. I will level whm with your summoner so that you don't have to main heal. Just send me the word.

 

[Tagrineth]

Then why bash on someone else for being frustrated with it, kinda silly if you ask me.

Because I made 90% of my parties from 35 to 75, because I didn't get any invites?

 

[Mokk]

Hold on .. lemme bust out my bag of cookies...

Seriously, give it a rest.

Just to add a little substance to this i'm sure you never once griped about it like you are now, amirite?

It's worth mentioning is all i'm saying; no need to pick on that alone as the reason he's in his current situation. It's not like the name of the post is "LFP makes me want to quit." There were numerous reasons given, sounds like you've got an axe to grind about people whinning about the whole LFP thing. Which i can dig, but this isn't the place for it.

 

[Tymon]

I spend all my free time in a world that does not exist. People say "Hey man, whatcha been up to?"

All I can answer to non-players is "nothin, playin video games"

that single statement almost made me quit the game again

 

[Firestreak]

This is how I get by, but once in a blue moon, I get asked to DD, and then I love every minute of it.

I feel the exact opposite. It's not effective, and having played BLM I know it's crap. I feel ineffectient and useless trying to DD as SMN.

 

[Kyp]

No offense intended here Firestreak, but.. why is everyone always so concerned about efficiency instead of fun?

If someone enjoys it, why not let them do it.. since we're playing a game?


I'm not in a race to get to 75.. I don't see the problem.

 

[Bigboy]

I feel the exact opposite. It's not effective, and having played BLM I know it's crap. I feel ineffectient and useless trying to DD as SMN.

I dunno, those hate free 1k+ bursts of damage every minute are pretty sweet. Some might argue its actually more efficient than a BLM, especially since they can SC too.

I can totally understand the whole "not wanting to main heal as something other than WHM" attitude, but it's never bothered me much. I figure it must be much worse for a SMN than a RDM though, since they don't get other spells to mess around with while keeping people alive. SMN do make good SC partners though, and the update will probably make that more noticable too.

 

[Zyndara]

If you're so tired of LFP, put in some effort to try to make your own parties.

Quoted for supreme truth. As a Dragoon, this is something you learn fast or you don't get to play the job you love. That simple. People have so much garbage stuffed into their heads about "loldrg" and how dragoons somehow make a party less fun/sucessful. It's the same with summoners. Someone came along and said hey, there's a shortage of whm seeking, let's use the smn since his mp pool is off the hook. Every job seems to get pigeonholed in one way or another, although some get it way more than others. But the thing of it is... if you truly enjoy summoner... play it how you want to play it.

I leveled my smn mostly to sub for whm because I enjoy whm, but I found myself really liking it when it was a DD job. I, too, got irritated when asked to main heal as well because I thought, "Been there done that," not to mention, had put in my search message that I wasn't interested in main healing. I didn't level whm to 65 (so far) to do a repeat of those same duties all over again (only at half strength seeing it's /whm which most people don't seem to calculate in). Plus, I wanted a taste of summoner as it was intended to see if it would be a job that would interest me. So almost every party I was in from dunes level on, I created. And the ones I didn't create I joined with the understanding I would not main heal. They were good parties. Fun and "unconventional" parties. And very successful parties as well, with good chains, good exp, and good times.

I agree with some of the others here too. It sounds to me like it may not just be about the job here. A change of perspective may be exactly what you need. Sometimes a few days, a week; hell even a month or two could help you conclude what it is that keeps you coming back to FF. I put a lot of "work" into getting my dragoon to 75... at times it was frustrating, and there were times I wanted to give up and walk away from the job because I thought... this just shouldn't be this difficult. I spent some time away from the game too, albeit not months, and when I thought about it, I realized it is all about the journey, not the destination. Yes hitting 75 was a HUGE sense of accomplishment for me in terms of the game. I considered it a challenge and was proud of myself that I accomplished it. But I love the job. I love the people I spend so much time with. I love getting into new things and figuring things out and pushing myself to do things in the game I haven't done before. If you logoff at night and you feel like you've been working and don't feel like you've had a rewarding or enjoyable experience, then yeah... I think you are right to think about walking away. Because if it isn't fun to you anymore, then what's the point?

I hope that the new updates to smn make it more fun and give it that much more potential. Whatever conclusion you come to, I wish you the best. :wink:

 

[Eulore]

You should catch up to my nin. That way you can "heal" while still doing whatever it is you want to do because I'm too l33t of a nin to take much dmg

 

[Galaika]

I dunno, those hate free 1k+ bursts of damage every minute are pretty sweet. Some might argue its actually more efficient than a BLM, especially since they can SC too.

Bursting once a minute is not DDing as a SMN. We can burst while healing. Plus, 1k is a gross exaggeration. Youre only gonna get that sort of number bursting Astral Flow. Realistically, the tier 4 bursts will hit 500-650 on average.

Bursting/buffing once a minute takes 9 seconds or so once a minute. Between casting BPs is what I think defines a healing (or a good) summoner and a DDing (bad) summoner.

A good summoner has a NIN tank and is main healing when not buffing/bursting, because wasting another job slot in a party on a purely healing class is pointless, as a summoner can main heal a ninja just fine while still buffing and bursting.

A bad summoner spends their time between bloodpacts with their avatar out which puts out melee damage comparable to a ninja/thief/paladin's single hits and then ends up out of mp regardless of refresh after a couple of fights, having to slow the chain down by resting for most of a fight.

Everyone always says 'If I wanted to heal, I'd play white mage'. Well Summoner IS A HEALING CLASS. For those 50 seconds between bloodpacts, HEALING is what we do best! Do it. You might as well as well play paladin, sub nin all the way to 75 and refuse to tank.

 

[Eulore]

A bad summoner spends their time between bloodpacts with their avatar out which puts out melee damage comparable to a ninja/thief/paladin's single hits and then ends up out of mp regardless of refresh after a couple of fights, having to slow the chain down by resting for most of a fight.

I do as much dmg per katana as sushi-monks as nin at my level, kthx.

 

[Kyr]

.....

 

[Numa]

This is a game that revolves around teamwork. If you want to play a job in a style you feel is more "fun" regardless of its benefit/cost to the other five people dedicating their time to you as well, then put "looking for fun, not XP" in your search comment. Wrangle some friends into a static, where your methods can be agreed upon. Dont berate strangers because you dont feel like healing.

The game is hard. people need to 'work" hard to excel in this game, but I like it because this means your reputation is king. If you are a good player or bad player, you will be treated accordingly on the server. When you get that kind of recognition, you've earned the right to play it as you see fit.

If you want a great sense of acomplishment without having to "work" at it, forget ffxi and stick to masturbation.

 

[Eulore]

This is a game that revolves around teamwork. If you want to play a job in a style you feel is more "fun" regardless of its benefit/cost to the other five people dedicating their time to you as well, then put "looking for fun, not XP" in your search comment. Wrangle some friends into a static, where your methods can be agreed upon. Dont berate strangers because you dont feel like healing.

The game is hard. people need to 'work" hard to excel in this game, but I like it because this means your reputation is king. If you are a good player or bad player, you will be treated accordingly on the server. When you get that kind of recognition, you've earned the right to play it as you see fit.

If you want a great sense of acomplishment without having to "work" at it, forget ffxi and stick to masturbation.

One time it took me 3 hours to masturbate That doesn't seem like not having to work to me.

 

[Firestreak]

No offense intended here Firestreak, but.. why is everyone always so concerned about efficiency instead of fun?

If someone enjoys it, why not let them do it.. since we're playing a game?


I'm not in a race to get to 75.. I don't see the problem.

Well it's like this..

The first argument I hear is that they SMN are meant to be summoners, not main healers. This implies that as main healer a summoner cannot summon. This is not true.

Aerial Armor
Earthen Ward
Phalanxga

These all reduce damage saving MP long run for the summoner.

Fenrir Acc/Eva up
Fenrir All stats up

This increases a ninja's evasion(the second cause AGI+), while increasing all the melee DD's damage in the process. This is why the Ninja and Summoner are an ideal combination. While in the process of saving MP increasing the Nin's evasion so he has to be healed less, you increase everyone's damage.

There are some other random BPs you can do that help DD, mostly I do the ones that buff party members because those end up doing more damage than direct attacks. Of course I haven't hit 65 yet when SMN gets its first real damage BP. 1-64 all SMN gets is what... Double slap? Sometimes it does a few hundred, sometimes it does 12. Everyone emphasizes the double critical it got that one time and says "Summoner can do 400 damage!!!" Nobody actually averages out what it really does on a consistant basis on ITs.


So yes, if you bought FF for the sole purpose of playing Summoner as a damage dealer, and without that as a possibility for you, you must uninstall FFXI and leave the game, then by all means, quit. Summoner is not going to be a DD pre 70(maybe 65) no matter how hard you try. As a person who has played blackmage, you know how much damage a magic DD is supposed to do. In a regular exp party, not a Wyrm fight, you know that pulling hate because you are out damaging all the other DDs in the party combined is not a bad thing.

However SMN is not WHM. Summoner as a main healer can still use avatars, and still BP. However for the time in between cure or rest MP. If you absolutely can't stand main healer, don't play summoner. If you absolutely need to play summoner, learn to main heal. If you don't enjoy it, you probably aren't finding the little challenges built into the task. Making it more efficient, sacrificing reaction time for staying power. Finding a balance. Deciding what status cures to heal and what to let stand. Seeing how quickly you can take off the bad statuses that hit your tank. Deciding which BP is the most efficient. Finding the best time to summon and BP. Balancing your MP with the chain # deciding how many attack buffs you want to slap down on the DDs.

You've tried playing your way, forcing a SMN into a DD. You're obviously not having fun. It's agitating. Maybe some update will help you out? I don't know, but I can say this, it doesn't work at present, and many fine SMN have adjusted to the reality of the job and learned to have lots of fun healing their way through the levels as SMN.

 

[Zaltana]

On the smn main heal issue:
as a high lvl summoner myself, sig needs to be updated, i know the frustration of being asked to main heal when i wanna use my avatars like my job implies. we arent WHM's. we may have more MP then them naturally but they have more curing power then we could hope to. you want a main healer, get a whm or a rdm. you want a summoner then u ask for a summoner. (im curious about these changes SE is making and i hope one of them is easier skill ups.)

On the getting parties issue:
i dont even know what LFP is anymore. i got tired of it so i buckled down and started working at making parties. and i've become excreamly good at it. "i dont wanna put up with being a party leader" or "it's to much hassle finding replacements" are the words i hear out of people that complain for hours on end about not getting party invites. if you want to exp and you're not getting invites then the only opptions u have left is to make your own or log off.

 

[Zaltana]

Summoner is not going to be a DD pre 70(maybe 65) no matter how hard you try. As a person who has played blackmage, you know how much damage a magic DD is supposed to do.

that comaprison is a lil unfair imo. blm's were supposed to be the supreme made DD's in the game remember. smn's were not. i agree with alot of thing you said for the most part. i just feel that comparison is a lil off.

 

[Firestreak]

that comaprison is a lil unfair imo. blm's were supposed to be the supreme made DD's in the game remember. smn's were not. i agree with alot of thing you said for the most part. i just feel that comparison is a lil off.

BLM is the only one you can compare SMN to as a DD. They both burn MP and they both ineffective at skillchaining. Therefore in a non cannon-esque party they would be competiting for the same slot.

You may feel that WHM "has more healing power". I don't see it. til 68 with nobles tunic, there is nothing WHM has over SMN for more healing power except regens. Then there's Cure 5 but it's only a few levels at that point until SMN starts getting real DD BPs. I suggest you play WHM SMN and BLM. See who SMN is better to replace. DD is a game of how much damage you can crunch out. Healing is a question of how long you can keep the party going. I can keep a party going as my SMN - and I can give great buffs to speed up damage that my WHM can't do. I can't match my BLM's damage as a SMN, I just can't.

 

[Kirutaru]

that single statement almost made me quit the game again

I quoted for truth. I was thinking about that "nothin, just playin video games" line all day at work. How often I'm so proud of what I do (Just beat CoP) and how I want to tell everyone how awesome it was to finally get together and finish that sukker, but everyone at work would think I'm insane. And I'm their boss. =(

 

[Zaltana]

you forgot that whm's have cure 4. a spell what you never get subbing whm. you think i would have gotten this far if i hadnt found my own balence in this whole mess? and while healing ruby 2 is wonderful its still a BP useage. that means no other buffs for another minute. whm's curgas and other spells only have a few seconds to recast. smn's cannot out heal whm's the same as we cant out DD blm's. you're talking to a lvl 70 smn btw and i went from 50 to 70 lvling side by side with my GF's blm.

nearly part every i made consisted of a nin tank. caues, like you said, smn and nin go hand in hand. i heal'd, MB'd, was part of Skillchains, and even got a chance to DD melee style a little once i hit 65. i know my job inside and out. i had the most fun when i made smn x2 parties. with elph's high MB's and tack on 2 smn MB's, mobs rarely lasted long enough for the nin, or pld on occasion when one wasnt avalible, to lose much HP. thats what made smn fun for me. i participate in the fights directly. i dont sit back and toss out cures and the occacional BP like people seem to think thats all we're "supposed" to do.