Summoner makes me want to quit.

[Sabia]

Bursting once a minute is not DDing as a SMN. We can burst while healing. Plus, 1k is a gross exaggeration. Youre only gonna get that sort of number bursting Astral Flow. Realistically, the tier 4 bursts will hit 500-650 on average.

Bursting/buffing once a minute takes 9 seconds or so once a minute. Between casting BPs is what I think defines a healing (or a good) summoner and a DDing (bad) summoner.

A good summoner has a NIN tank and is main healing when not buffing/bursting, because wasting another job slot in a party on a purely healing class is pointless, as a summoner can main heal a ninja just fine while still buffing and bursting.

A bad summoner spends their time between bloodpacts with their avatar out which puts out melee damage comparable to a ninja/thief/paladin's single hits and then ends up out of mp regardless of refresh after a couple of fights, having to slow the chain down by resting for most of a fight.

Everyone always says 'If I wanted to heal, I'd play white mage'. Well Summoner IS A HEALING CLASS. For those 50 seconds between bloodpacts, HEALING is what we do best! Do it. You might as well as well play paladin, sub nin all the way to 75 and refuse to tank.

Best thing said in this thread is this.

I'm in the same situation as you, in the fact that I've wanted to be a summoner since I played the Beta and they only had carby and spirits. That being said however I still love my job. You're a wasted party slot if you're not main healing, simple as that. I can replace you with ANY other job and they would fill the gap better.

There are two ways to be a bad summoner (and I've seen both while leveling my whm to 68 ).

A) Only using cures. A summoner that sits there and spams cure III and nothing but is useless. If I wanted someone to spam cure on my tanks I'd invite a whm.

B) Only using avatars. I partied a little while ago (at about level 65) with a summoner while I was on my whm. She meleed with carbuncle the whole fight and spammed Meteorite every minute. We were fighting gobs and she would NOT cast Stoneskin nor help me heal. Totally useless. Even at 73 my pacts miss so often I find I do more damage through my other party members by buffing them with Acc/Eva, All stats up and Stoneskin. Granted I may get that 1700+ Pred Claws off every now and then but all the other misses complete with the 250 MP they cost - you'd be better off inviting a MNK or a WAR.

Peope don't understand the fact that there are TWO healing classes in this game and TWO tank classes. Just because both NIN and PLD can tank doesn't mean they tank in the exact same way. A PLD tries to get hit and uses cures to hold hate, they like taking damage. A NIN does his damndest to NOT get hit. He spams nin spells and uses damaging WSs to hold hate, they do not cure themselves and it's hard to believe that NIN and PLD are in the same class. It's the same with Summoner and WHM. A WHM is a perfect healer for a PLD as plds take high damage and sometimes require high level cures and such as they are constantly taking hate. A SMN is a great main healer in a NIN party. They can boost the NINs EVA, the NIN is low maintenance which means there's hardly a time where you need a cure IV and chances are your support mage is a RDM so they have cure IV and haste in a pinch.

This is summoner. Plain and simple - it's an absolutely excellent job and it bothers me when people trash it, it's fine the way it is. I've been in situations where I'm main healing with my whm and i'm like "Damn my smn would rock so much more ass in this pt, I'm such a wasted slot right now." The only time I"ve ever felt that way on my smn is when someone invites me to DD. I'm holding them back in these situations, and that really bothers me because this is a party orientated game and I"m not doing the best thing for my party by being in it.

Don't play summoner if you don't like it the way it is and you are incapable of being flexible. Summoner is a job that changes depending on what's in your party and what you're fighting, if you're not flexible enough this isn't the job for you. However that's why I love it. Every party I'm in it's a different experience with a different set of blood pacts. There have been times where I can browse the internet while playing whm in the middle of my parties because my tank is a NIN, I've never been able to do this on SMN because there's just too much to do with the bar spells, healing, blood pacts etc that I'm constantly spamming.

Summoner isn't a DD in this game, that being said however - that doesn't mean the job is broken. You don't like it, don't play it - simple as that.

PS: All this being said, there are what? 8 other jobs in the game you can play? I'm sure one of them will fill the gap that you thought summoner left. There is no penalty for switching your job in this game and I encourage you to give other ones a try - I"m sure you'll find one that you like.

 

[Trippyhippy]

If you're so tired of LFP, put in some effort to try to make your own parties. Don't just sit there complaining, because it won't get you any closer to 75.

I can't make a party when there is noone seeking 44-47 and less then 5 people actually logged that arent in a party in my lvl range.

I work odd hours. I can't be on during NA prime times. I have no quams about making a party, it's just not possible sometimes.

A lot of times, I'll ask any party leader in the range if they need a Smn. I've never gotten a party this way, but it never hurts to ask.

As a Drg, you should know that LFP time just can't be helped sometimes. Lay off me for not doing some shit that can't be done. You of all people know how it is.

 

[Tagrineth]

Yeah, and if I couldn't party on my DRG, I either changed jobs, or crafted while watching the player pool like a hawk for certain jobs.

 

[Trippyhippy]

Yeah, and if I couldn't party on my DRG, I either changed jobs, or crafted while watching the player pool like a hawk for certain jobs.

Indeed. I've been working on smithing. lvl 45 now. But crafting is boring and I wold rather mine up mats for it. I can't seek on smn (or any job for that matter) and mine at the same time. Both things require too much space. Not to mentioned a lvl 45 character would get slaughtered in the mines that were worth a damn.

I have all crafts over lvl 10 and I'm on recipies that either don't have stackable mats, or don't have stackable results.

Not to mention I'm broke. I have less than 100k.

 

[Tagrineth]

As an SMN, you can sub WHM and use sneak/invis all day long thanks to your auto-refresh... I don't really see that as an excuse. Gusgen Mines or Yughott Grotto should be perfectly easy for you to mine as SMN/WHM. Mt. Zhayolm is a sneak/invis onry zone too, if you get aggro it's warp or die anyway.

 

[Mokk]

I don't really see that as an excuse.

I don't recall him asking for your approval.

This thread is ridiculous at this point. The man wrote a rant about why he's thinking of quitting using summoner as a springboard to showcase the frustrations he has with the game as a whole and almost all of you entirely miss the point to tailor what you had to say to a conversational "head in the sand" stance, good going.

The fact of the matter is, if you had bothered to read the OP thoroughly, he's busted his ass and has absolutely crap to show for it. He's got multiple job levels, multiple craft levels, multiple mission completions, and nothing to feel good about but the people he knows in game. Instead of bolstering the good most of you have gone out of your way to change the topic to the job that brought this all to a head instead of trying to at least go somewhere positive with it or suggest some kind of resolution to the issues he has with the game as a whole. Anyone could pick this up from the OP if they managed to give it some thought without having the wrong persepective because it's just another post about someone being down about FFXI. To assume that a 2yr vet doesn't know to change jobs or take up a craft is all but insulting, if someone were to tell you guys the same you'd go ape about how you're so damn l33t and the noob in question who said that just needs to shut it. Give me a break.

The thread is about him wanting to quit for multiple reasons. If you think berating someone about what they're doing wrong is a good way to make them stay, by all means continue. Otherwise the whole thread and the contributions contained within are a complete waste of space by their very definition.

If you're looking to have a personalized experience that's enjoyable and flexible on the game end instead of you bending over backwards to accomadate the oversciencing and elitism on the part of the community FFXI is not for you, end of story.

 

[Trippyhippy]

PS: All this being said, there are what? 8 other jobs in the game you can play? I'm sure one of them will fill the gap that you thought summoner left. There is no penalty for switching your job in this game and I encourage you to give other ones a try - I"m sure you'll find one that you like.

Blm - 75
Smn - 45
Whm - 42
Brd - 40
War - 38
Mnk - 35
Rdm - 34
Sam - 26
Pld - 24
Rng - 24
Nin - 22
Thf -20
Drk - 10
Drg - 10
Bst - 10

I've tried other stuff. When I got 75 Blm, it was my 449th job lvl. It took me 2 years because I can't do 1 thing at a time for an extended period.

I will say this. Out of all the stuff I did, I had the most fun with CoP and Zilart missions. I enjoy story line, and there is plenty of it to be enjoyed. Just not comparitivly speaking.

If anyone that has played Smn past 60, I would be very appreciative to hear about parties you've had that you enjoyed. So far, my favorite setup was Nin, Nin, Sam, Smn, Smn, Rdm. we were lvl 42ish and I had a ball. I threw maybe 1 cure per fight. I used my avatars to melee (god forbid) and even did a couple of impromptu skillchains with the other Smn, on which the rdm managed to burst most of the time. It was a great party.

My main aversion to healing as a Smn is when someone invites me to a party that is Pld, DD, DD, DD, Blm, me. It doesn't work and people that try it are doing a disservice to everyone in the party. People will die and I'll get Blamed (and usually kicked from the party) all the while pointing out the Blm can cure just as well as I can.

A lot of my problem with finding a party has come around since ToAU came out. Everyone crowded to the new jobs while I was seeking and too broke to buy the expansion.

I will log on tonight after I get off from work and try to find a party once again. If any of you want to aprty with my sad ass tonight around 12pm eastern, let me know. I have to work 3rd shift tommorow night so I'll have a good 10 hours to party because I have to stay up all night.

Of course... The Dark side calls me, and I may just go home and be a Sith lord on KotORII. I'm about done with Nar Shadda and I only have 1 more planet to go to befoe Malachor. Perhaps my interest will be renewed after I get done with that game.

 

[Trippyhippy]

As an SMN, you can sub WHM and use sneak/invis all day long thanks to your auto-refresh... I don't really see that as an excuse. Gusgen Mines or Yughott Grotto should be perfectly easy for you to mine as SMN/WHM. Mt. Zhayolm is a sneak/invis onry zone too, if you get aggro it's warp or die anyway.

I like to mine Oldton. It's never crowded, all the points are close together, and I make steady cash. Gusgen is way over crowded and run by the "New..." Gilsellers. I'm just not going to the cauldron.

Besides, it's not worth it to go mine and seek at the same time. Too much equipment switching. If I'm gonna mine, I'm gonna mine.

Where is Mt. Zhayolm?

 

[hellstorm]

It ironic that people call this game work.

work- Physical or mental effort or activity directed toward the production or accomplishment of something.

A game is something pass time, more of a hobby of sorts. If you was on a football team then you would work to be the best. Yet work does not mean it not fun. This game is no diffent; if there was little work to this game everyone would get tired of it inside of a week. I play 1 player game beat them less then a week and I dont feel that it was that much of a accomplishment. Take the metal gear solid series. Ive beaten all the withen 3 days they was great games, good story but now is just a $50 beverage coster. I think rpg only thing that nigate this rule because there are so many thing you can do in rpg. mmorpg take rpg to next lvl, it is larger and the world is always changing leaving you always something to do. It is never ending; but you are never obligated to do anything. You choose what you want to do. every other game has some set goal but mmorpg has many goals that you set not that the game set for you. So you say you work by playing a game and I say when are you not working by playing a game.

tippy I have to ask do you expect everything to be handed to you? Take for example have you ever played FFx? If you have you would know that yuna fought all her summon as well. People lack the for sight to see why the game maker do what they do. Why do crafting guilds have open and close time? Well for one; Have you ever been to a store that open 24/7 that run by 1 guy:biggrin: ? For two; it is the program time to restock the guild with items. Agian they try to bring a little realistic into the game. Now back to the summons have you had read the diologe that go with the fights you would understand why you fight them. People take game to serious never take time to veiw the scenery (cut scenes) there alot of nice cg in this game yet I see so many people fly right though them:girl_were .


This game allow you to choose how you play, so if you do not want to be a healer then you do not have to be. Just like a red mage can melee in a party if he wants. Though you do have to remeber that there are 5 other poeple in a party that are "working" as well to try to perveil in there job. Considering there are very little amount of people lvling a certain job at any give time chances are the reason they are asking you to heal is because there are no whm lfp. Here the question you have to ask yourself, Why limit your ability, smn is a support class just like rdm, cor, brd, and whm. Meaning that you have offensive ability as well as defensive ability and you can do several jobs in a party. Anouther question you have to ask yourself, do you really want to be a dd? There are alot less healer classes the dd classes. Once you get past 70 that when you can start being picky but from 30-70 you should try to be some what flexible. Also if you insist on dd "only" place that in your search comment so everyone will know ahead of time and save you and them alot of trouble asking.

 

[Rinoah]

I know exactly how you feel, i both came from Earth and beyond (damn i miss that game...) and initially wanted to be a summoner. My story actually went pretty much exactly like yours (minus the success of hitting 75).

I would like to tell you i was happy with another job, but meh i have pretty much quit. I usually don't play for a month or two then play for a week or so then take another break.

On a side note if you were looking for a new MMO then Eve: online might be a good choice. Lots of people from EnB went there, and from what i have seen it looks to be thriving and fun. Main reason i didn't go there is because my brother holds massive prejudice against Eve as he considers it the main reason EnB got cancelled.

Whatever you decide to do i wish you the best.

 

[Shaunessy]

Peope don't understand the fact that there are TWO healing classes in this game and TWO tank classes.

For a second there I though you were going to say WHM and RDM. You know considering that those are the only 2 jobs with an actual cure spell. To be honest though I agree with Trip and Mokk on this. SMN is a hard job to get all of your spells for and they should be able to use them instead of being a fake WHM. Cutting people down for playing how they want to play is what this board is for though right.

 

[Rinoah]

Sure is.

I personally hate playing SMN as i play it to have a break from healing as my WHM main. No i am not joking and i wish i was.

When are these job adjustments coming out? because i might consider actually playing summoner if they adjust it well.

 

[hellstorm]

For a second there I though you were going to say WHM and RDM. You know considering that those are the only 2 jobs with an actual cure spell. To be honest though I agree with Trip and Mokk on this. SMN is a hard job to get all of your spells for and they should be able to use them instead of being a fake WHM. Cutting people down for playing how they want to play is what this board is for though right.

yes but smn is also alot cheaper then most jobs because all there spells are gotten by fighting bcnms. It not people cutting them down it just the people that make these post are all 1 sided. They scream me me me I I I. Yet there are 6 people in a party not 1. In a party me and I dont exist. adapt overcome be flexible.

 

[Firestreak]

For a second there I though you were going to say WHM and RDM. You know considering that those are the only 2 jobs with an actual cure spell. To be honest though I agree with Trip and Mokk on this. SMN is a hard job to get all of your spells for and they should be able to use them instead of being a fake WHM. Cutting people down for playing how they want to play is what this board is for though right.

PLD and NIN are considered the best tank jobs, and neither of them have provoke except for subjob. The fact is, we all know that main healing is what SMN does best. We may debate if WHM is better at or not, and we may debate if it can become an acceptable DD, but we know it's best at main healing. That being said, I'd rather be sitting in my mog house than partying with some DD summoner taking up a spot and holding me back. At least then I'd have a chance of getting a good party invite and making some actual exp instead of wasting time and getting frusterating watching someone screw up one of my favorite jobs.

 

[Rinoah]

Oh and as i have said previously. You may play as creatively as you wish shaun. Just don't expect me to party with a DRG/BLM. There are enough bad players with compatable jobs without throwing in others.

 

[Mokk]

Doesn't that just look like a ton of fun for everyone?

A slinky it is not, people.

I would also remind those of you jabbering on about what jobs are what, they weren't always like that. At one point in time the game and the community was flexible and diverse, this is what allowed for ninja to propigate as a tank among other examples that could easily be given. There are different ways to play than what's on alla, in the guide, what parses out, etc. Not everyone finds cold hard efficiency enjoyable, were it not the standard already not everyone would xp on IT++ mobs, were it not already the standards i'd bet you'd see a bunch of jobs playing with their roles in the party. But you don't because most of the community is just like this thread, passing over the option to make a positive impact to rush to the most contradictory stance one can have playing a game. Congratulations, you've been brainwashed in to thinking there's only one way to do things.

The problem as i see it, in respect to the entirely derailed content of this thread, is that there is no more autonomy in play thanks to ... well, you guys and everyone else like you.

 

[Trippyhippy]

This is going in the wrong direction.

I would like to point out that not 1 time have I ever mentioned in any post on this thread the phrase "Damage Dealing Summoner".

I have been a Blm. I know Smn isn't as effective as a Blm when it comes to being a Damage Dealer.

I want to use Blood Pacts. I have plenty of good ones. Next level I get earthen Ward. If it's close to a full moon, Ecliptic Growl is great for Damage Dealers, and it lasts about 2 minutes.

If no Rdm, fenrir has Dispel. Nightmare is great for sleeping links as far as I've seen. Garuda can heal everyone at once. Leviathan's spring water is better, but I still have a couple of levels to go before I get that one. Ifrit can start or end skillchains with moderate Damage. He can also use Warcry. Thunderspark does decent damage on a MB to things that are weak vs. Lightning. Rolling thunder is kind of worthless as the added damage is based on int. Unless you have a couple of drk in your party, the added damage is gonna be 5 points per hit at the most.

I want to use these abilities. My healing magic stat is around 80. I am not a main healer. I can help others do better Damage. Sure I can throw a cure here and there, but if I am the main healer for anything less than a ninja and a ?/nin then I am doing a disservice to anyone in the party.

work- Physical or mental effort or activity directed toward the production or accomplishment of something.

You can't deny that this game requires mentle effort. So by your deffinition, it is work unless you aren't trying to accomplish anything. Do you feel that you have accomplished nothing the whole time you've been playing?

A game is something pass time, more of a hobby of sorts. If you was on a football team then you would work to be the best. Yet work does not mean it not fun. This game is no diffent; if there was little work to this game everyone would get tired of it inside of a week. I play 1 player game beat them less then a week and I dont feel that it was that much of a accomplishment. Take the metal gear solid series. Ive beaten all the withen 3 days they was great games, good story but now is just a $50 beverage coster. I think rpg only thing that nigate this rule because there are so many thing you can do in rpg. mmorpg take rpg to next lvl, it is larger and the world is always changing leaving you always something to do. It is never ending; but you are never obligated to do anything. You choose what you want to do. every other game has some set goal but mmorpg has many goals that you set not that the game set for you. So you say you work by playing a game and I say when are you not working by playing a game.

If you say it's not work, you need to adjust your definition to reflect your view.

trippy I have to ask do you expect everything to be handed to you? Take for example have you ever played FFx? If you have you would know that yuna fought all her summon as well. People lack the for sight to see why the game maker do what they do. Why do crafting guilds have open and close time? Well for one; Have you ever been to a store that open 24/7 that run by 1 guy ? For two; it is the program time to restock the guild with items. Agian they try to bring a little realistic into the game. Now back to the summons have you had read the diologe that go with the fights you would understand why you fight them. People take game to serious never take time to veiw the scenery (cut scenes) there alot of nice cg in this game yet I see so many people fly right though them .

I don't understand where how you think I'm asking for anything to be handed to me. I've paid my dues on this game. I leveled a taru warrior to 38 with no power lvl. I killed all the avatars 2x except Diabolos and fenrir which I only beat once. What am I asking to be handed to me?

As for FFX... I beat Nemisis. On 2 different save files. I beat the butterfly Game. I dodged 200 lightning bolts in a row. I got all the summons. I got a piece of armor for all my characters that had Auto-Hast/Auto-Pheonix/Auto Protect/Break HP limit. None of that was as hard as getting to the point where you are even able to enter a Fenrir fight in FFXI.

I view the scenery all the time. I take many screen shots. I even entered the last Screenshot Competion. When I did divine might, I took screenshots of all the text so I could show it to friends that hadn't gotten that far.

I want nothing handed to me. I want to earn it. Not having the chance to do so is what irks me. People that know me would not accuse me of such things as "Wanting everything handed to me". Learn who I am before you berate me.

This game allow you to choose how you play, so if you do not want to be a healer then you do not have to be. Just like a red mage can melee in a party if he wants. Though you do have to remeber that there are 5 other poeple in a party that are "working" as well to try to perveil in there job. Considering there are very little amount of people lvling a certain job at any give time chances are the reason they are asking you to heal is because there are no whm lfp. Here the question you have to ask yourself, Why limit your ability, smn is a support class just like rdm, cor, brd, and whm. Meaning that you have offensive ability as well as defensive ability and you can do several jobs in a party. Anouther question you have to ask yourself, do you really want to be a dd? There are alot less healer classes the dd classes. Once you get past 70 that when you can start being picky but from 30-70 you should try to be some what flexible. Also if you insist on dd "only" place that in your search comment so everyone will know ahead of time and save you and them alot of trouble asking.

Once again, I'll have to say that I never used the phrase "Damage Dealing Summoner". All I said was "Not a main healer". Consider that and make another post. If you are responding to me, respond to my words and not the ones others have put in my mouth.

 

[Galaika]

Doesn't that just look like a ton of fun for everyone?

A slinky it is not, people.

I would also remind those of you jabbering on about what jobs are what, they weren't always like that. At one point in time the game and the community was flexible and diverse, this is what allowed for ninja to propigate as a tank among other examples that could easily be given. There are different ways to play than what's on alla, in the guide, what parses out, etc. Not everyone finds cold hard efficiency enjoyable, were it not the standard already not everyone would xp on IT++ mobs, were it not already the standards i'd bet you'd see a bunch of jobs playing with their roles in the party. But you don't because most of the community is just like this thread, passing over the option to make a positive impact to rush to the most contradictory stance one can have playing a game. Congratulations, you've been brainwashed in to thinking there's only one way to do things.

The problem as i see it, in respect to the entirely derailed content of this thread, is that there is no more autonomy in play thanks to ... well, you guys and everyone else like you.

Dont be so melodramatic. Of course there isnt only one way to do things, but there is an undeniable BETTER way to do things.

 

[Mokk]

Dont be so melodramatic. Of course there isnt only one way to do things, but there is an undeniable BETTER way to do things.

Out of all the posts contained in this thread i'm being melodramatic?

...

That's absolutely staggering.

 

[Galaika]

Once again, I'll have to say that I never used the phrase "Damage Dealing Summoner". All I said was "Not a main healer". Consider that and make another post. If you are responding to me, respond to my words and not the ones others have put in my mouth.

If you dont want to heal, and you dont want to do damage, what do you want to do between your bloodpacts? Stand around doing nothing?

Out of all the posts contained in this thread i'm being melodramatic?

...

That's absolutely staggering.

Yes, no other posts have mentioned brainwashing and blamed an entire community for the 'sterotyping' of the summoner class and others.