Summoners and CoP Missions

[Stouter]

First off, let me say that 5 summoners and a pld can easily and quickly win almost any CoP mission BC. Invincible > 5x Astral Flow BP's will take out all but a couple of the BC's promptly. This is the same way 16 blms can easily win Divine Might with a synchronized ES thundaga III. However, if you only have 6 blms for divine might, you sure wouldn't have them start the fight with an ES thundaga III, because it would result in the fastest wipe ever. So why would you take 2 summoners to a CoP BC and use the same play style you would with 5?

In a BC fight that takes more than 15 seconds, with a summoner using their 2 hour, the smn does one big burst damage, lets their avatar tank til they die (at least the smart ones do, the retards promptly release) and then are useless for the next 60 seconds. Astral flow Blood Pacts drain every last mp that a smn has. Yes they can use ethers to get mp up, and toss out a few cures, but you can't count on them to have mp to cure at any given time, and can't count on them to cure and get another BP in asap.

For all the BC fights through CoP, assuming a party that doesn't already have 3-4 summoners:

Promys - Summoner is the best DD, OR a decent healer. They can play the role of healer for the first 80%, then DD for the end, but they cannot play both for the whole fight. Summoner is very useful, but can only DD one every 2 hours, so you can't count on them to DD all 3 when doing a full run. Summoner as support isn't that great, all they have is aerial armor as a "useful" BP, but most promy parties are straight utsusemi, which makes AA useless.

Riverne A01 - Summoner is an ok kiter, if the smn knows how to carby kite, but a hasted nin/anything would do better. As healer they are ok, but lack haste which makes whm preferred. Summoner are meh for this fight in a normal setup. As support, summoner isn't that useful for most setups in this fight, due to the party being spread out tanking 3 different mobs.

Diabolos - Summoner is a gimpy DD, ninja is an overpowered DD at this level with elemental ni's, can tank without taking damage, and doesn't need mp. Summoner as a healer is lacking, as they lack both haste and erase for this fight. As support, earthen ward helps out immensely with nightmare.

Riverne B01 - Summoner can be useful for this fight as a DD. They can astral BP, then someone uses a mistmelt, and a rdm or blm sleep II's him. Repeat 60 seconds later. Blm can do the same with freeze though, and it's better to pile up blms for this fight than to pile up summoners. As a healer summoner is also decent for this fight. As support they can be somewhat useful.

Promy Vhazl - Summoners are a terrible DD for this fight. Their normal BP's are gimp, their astral BP's are AoE, and a really bad idea, not to mention the fact that they would likely be resisted on 2 of the mobs. As support they can be useful.

3 paths snoll - Summoner is a lacking DD, they'll get 2 BP's in if they are lucky, and even then do less damage than almost any other DD. As a healer they would be on level footing with a whm. As support earthen ward again helps a bit, but summoner shouldn't play support for the fight, they should do their buffs before engaging, and then DD.

3 paths shikaree mithras - For this fight, everyone says get A summoner to DD and it's easy. If you want it easy, get 3 summoners to DD. If you get one smn, the fight won't be noticeably easier. Blm will do just as well when paired with a pld 2 hour tank, and Rdm/blm will blow smn and blm out of the water with chainspell aeroga. As healer or support, smn is ok for this fight.

3 paths moblins - Summoner can make a good DD with astral for this fight. They can make a decent healer. Due to multiple mobs, summoner wouldn't be that useful as support, because the fight would either be too short to make a contribution, or the party would be too spread out tanking/kiting their own mobs.

Ultima/Omega - Summoner sucks as DD. They can be a DD for one of the 3 fights, but for the other two all they can do is support or heal. As a healer they lack erase, which is big for this fight. As support they can make a moderate contribution.

Everything after ultima/omega - Uncapped fights, so smn has BP70's. This lets them be a serious DD, and at the same time backup heal, as well as do support buffs before engaging in the fight.




So what's my beef? Whenever doing CoP missions, when forming parties, everyone always says "let's get a summoner or two." This is the same way things were for ranger pre-nerf. Pile up rangers for the fight, no matter what the fight. Ranger wasn't always the best for a fight, and sometimes was even a hinderance. This is the same way summoner is with CoP, and people need to realize that jobs have strengths and weaknesses.

My other beef is that you need a skilled summoner to fill a role in a balance party. These are hard to find, and you'll rarely find a good summoner that has only leveled it to 40 to be useful for CoP. You'll often find a 70+ summoner that sucks as well at capped fights, because they forget how to play support, if they ever knew, or think they can be a DD in 50 cap because their BP70's do big damage.

I was lucky going through CoP the first time, I had a good summoner with me for the 2nd half of the missions, one who played a role that fit the party nicely, and used a play style that meshed well with the other jobs. However, judging by the summoners that I've seen in exp parties and missions, you're better off getting another job 9/10 times than getting a summoner. At least the other job will be used to doing the role you want them to, because it will be what they've done in exp as that job.

 

[Answa~]

Just tell the SMN what you want him to do... I always did exactly what I was told when I did capped fights because I had no idea what to expect. Then again, I only got to the Mammets and lost the one time we tried... the strategy they had sucked. This isn't really a flame, though...

 

[Nicolette]

Um. Some corrections.

promys- Smn can mainheal for first 30-40% of the boss's life, and nuke the remainder down with 3x astral flow bloodpacts. We only need 64 MP to 2hr and start off with nearly 600 (taru). Also if doing all 3 runs it usually takes a party longer to get to spire than recast on 2hr. If you have 2-3 smn, you can have 1 smn 2hr the 1st, while the other mainheals, the 2nd smn 2hr the second bc while the reverse mainheals, and by the third the firsts' will be back up again.

Riverne - rdm/nin gravity kiters are good for this BC, but Im something like 4/6 on this BC from helping with it, and most rdms that do this either have no idea how to kite, or get into trouble fairly quickly. Only once did the rdm kiter kite without needing the whm to go and save them. Summoner kiters, especially with carby mitts, can kite the mammets around the circle, up and down the center, or any which way, practically all day long with no potions or danger.

Diabolos - in the mission fight I felt uber, earthen ward rocks diabolos's world, and inferno and judgement bolt both do massive damage. In the uncapped I was mostly mainheal, I could pact diabolos probably twice, But our tanks could use the MP more for heals.

Ouryu fight - agreed, Smn is the same as blm for this fight, for when you dont want ppl to accuse you of using the strategy of throwing BLM at any problems you have. =p

Vahzl - I've never heard of any smn using 2hr BP's for this fight, but I would laugh if they did (before the first 2 dead), its an endurance fight though, and summoners can make better mainheal simply because of the large mp pool and auto-refresh. Nin's will whine without haste tho.

snoll - I felt gimp as smn on snoll. damn rangers and their DD abils.

mithras - 2 smn, 1 lvl 1 pld, invicible 2hr 2hr .. finish off last 30% of X, or wait for smn to be able to 2hr again =p

moblins - Funny story about moblin bc. I kited the healer moblin from the arena all the way to the gate and left him there fighting carby. He didnt make it back to the bc (where I went to cure ppl) until all but the bugbear were dead, and the bugbear died before he got close enough to cure.

ultima - agreed

after - agreed. we rock uncapped.

Sorry to hear you had smn trouble on your SECOND trip through CoP
Just wanted to put in smn PoV though since yours was melee sounding.

 

[Mishaela]

If I remember right, Earthen Ward is 46..so you couldn't have done that in the Diablos fight.

And I KNOW this is referring to yesterday..which..I hafto agree, mostly. SMNs kept trying to toss out these 80-180 damage BPs, thinking they were all uber when the NIN was tossing out 80-100DMG Ni nukes...they refused to Tail Whip to try to weigh it down, they 2h'd way too late the first time we tried (which resulted in a wipe - had they done it a bit sooner we probably would've won). We failed enough runs for 2h to cool off...and then the SMN that stayed still did 2h way too late...just glad that time it wasn't needed.

 

[Stouter]

Speak of the devil, here's the smn I was fortunate enough to do my CoP with

promys- Smn can mainheal for first 30-40% of the boss's life, and nuke the remainder down with 3x astral flow bloodpacts. We only need 64 MP to 2hr and start off with nearly 600 (taru). Also if doing all 3 runs it usually takes a party longer to get to spire than recast on 2hr. If you have 2-3 smn, you can have 1 smn 2hr the 1st, while the other mainheals, the 2nd smn 2hr the second bc while the reverse mainheals, and by the third the firsts' will be back up again.

Riverne - rdm/nin gravity kiters are good for this BC, but Im something like 4/6 on this BC from helping with it, and most rdms that do this either have no idea how to kite, or get into trouble fairly quickly. Only once did the rdm kiter kite without needing the whm to go and save them. Summoner kiters, especially with carby mitts, can kite the mammets around the circle, up and down the center, or any which way, practically all day long with no potions or danger.

mithras - 2 smn, 1 lvl 1 pld, invicible 2hr 2hr .. finish off last 30% of X, or wait for smn to be able to 2hr again =p

Sorry to hear you had smn trouble on your SECOND trip through CoP
Just wanted to put in smn PoV though since yours was melee sounding.

Counter corrections
Promys - You can't lone heal and get off 3 astral BP's. You need a 2nd healer to get more than one off, although you'll probably have one anyway. 2 summoners for a full promy run is uber, you're damn straight there.

Riverne A01 - Nin/rdm or Nin/blm > any other job to kite, because they don't need to kite. They just straight up tank and spam elemental ni's. They have their mammet half dead by the time the kill group has the first one dead. Smn can kite, rdm/nin can kite, but there's a much much better way to do it.

Mithras - pld and 2 rdm/blm > pld and 2 smn. Chainspell aeroga will take all 3 out in under 15 seconds, 2 summoners will take over a minute, and invincible will wear in that time.

And I'm not having trouble the 2nd time through, nor am I in a melee heavy group. For the mithras we took a pld, 2 rdm/blm, and 3 blm. Instant death. Coming up for snoll and moblins we're gonna break out melee for the first time since site A01, with a single monk combined with soul voiced buffs.

I helped with a diabolos mission last night, and we had 2 summoners, and our whm made a comment after failing the first try that she should have come as a smn too. We ended up winning it easily after one smn had to go and we replaced with a 2nd whm.

Correction on original post, smn doesn't have earthen ward for diabolos mission, so they are mostly undesireable for any position for that fight.

But I'll mention it here if I forgot to before, smn and most any job is useful for any BC, if played properly, with the proper setup. My problem is with people that think adding a smn to the party with make any CoP BC easier. This is the "Hey rangers are good DD's, let's toss a bunch of them at Fafnir" mentality.

Ranger 1 uses barrage.
Ranger 2 uses barrage.
Ranger 3 uses barrage.
Fafnir readies AoE spamga.
Fafnir pwns the whole alliance in homeroom.

 

[Phraust]

Just a quick Note, I know it sounds impossible, and the math doesn't work out on paper or anything, but SMN can indeed do 3 BP on the snoll BCNM.

 

[Mishaela]

Just a quick Note, I know it sounds impossible, and the math doesn't work out on paper or anything, but SMN can indeed do 3 BP on the snoll BCNM.

Austere. =P

 

[Stouter]

It's not all referring to yesterday, yesterday is just when it reached the point where it bugged the crap out of me. I've rarely seen a good smn in exp, they either want to use gimpy BP's, and/or whip out their staff and melee along side their avatars. Or you get the smn's that have settled into the role of gimpy whm, and don't even bother using BP's. They're just trying to swallow the rough road to a level where they feel they can be useful as a summoner.

Summoner is a multi-purpose job, that should conform to the party's needs. If you want to play your own style of summoner only, then build your own parites around that style. Don't accept invites to pick up parties and refuse to play the way that benefits the party most.

My beef is that most summoners can't figure out how to conform to the party's needs, and you would be better off getting a job that specializes in doing what you're wanting the summoner to do.

 

[Dayner]

Riverne-1 is an easy mission i dont know why ppl say need 2 nin/war and rdm/nin ........... we did it with pld as tank only

 

[Mishaela]

Admittedly, it IS amazing to see so many SMNs struggle with their job..and the ones without Fenrir really should be having an easier time figuring out what to apply to the party. I hate having to hold a SMN's hand and point out "The tank is a NIN, Earthen Ward would help in case they get hit between casts." and misc crap like that.

One in a hundred SMN I know will try to SC Detonation with Tail Whip when they get it (because at that time, it's that, Shining Ruby, or Aerial Armor, which isn't too great vs. Mandies), and will sooner just throw out a 90DMG Aero II "because it's the best they have". Puke.

 

[justarius]

What I did for the 3 mammats was I 1st smned levi and used tail whip. Then I took fenrir out and kited with fenrir. Carby will die too soon and will lose hate easy. I think that will all change now since diabolos is out.

 

[Sabia]

I don't really consider myself a terrible smn in parties. I conform to what my party needs me to do. What you have to understand is it's not just the summoners fault when things don't go right. Do you know how many times I've been invited to pts pre 70 to be a damage dealer? I mean seriously - I'm a killer buffer/healer with a good tank. I have a 61 WHM and a 71 SMN and I can honestly say that paired with a GOOD RDM I find my summoner a more effective job than my whm WITH A GOOD TANK. If I'm main healing and I stop spamming Buffing Bloodpacts like Ward/Growl/Howl it's because my tank sucks and is taking too much damage leaving me no time to summon/bloodpact, and most support jobs like RDM or BLM would rather die than throw out a cure to help me out.

I was in a pt the other night and our ninja tank couldn't get his shadows back up, so rather than say....RDM cast Cure IV, BLM cast stun and then Cure III they left me there mashing on my Cure III macro (which had way too much wait time) and watched the Tank die. So don't try to say that if a SMN is having a hard time it's all their fault. It's a Party for shits sake and should be a party effort, jesus if you see your tank going down and my cure IIIs aren't coming fast enough (not my fault, it's game mechanics) why not try to pull hate with a WS or provoke....maybe help me cure for like 1 min!!!

As for the prommy thing, There's some things that SMN just absolutely rock at in CoP. For example the first three Prommy missions - I seriously rocked from everthing from the Spires (the blow back move did a whole lot of shit all to fenrir and he was back up there in a second while our melee tryed to get thier bearings) and he absolutely destroyed the BCNM. The Mammet fight I ended up going as WHM, I was pretty sure I would of kited pretty awesome but we didn't have a whm in the group and I think it ended up saving the day. I'll probably take WHM to Diabolos too unless we get one allready...Anyway SMN is an exceptionally good job for most Prommy missions but as with every job you need to know your limits. RNG may kick ass but if he pulls hate he's screwed, War/Nin is a killer DD/Tank but when tanking ends up wasting a lot of time getting shadows up rather than swinging an axe...I could go on but you get the point.

CoP like most everything in this game is a Party effort and if you're not there to fill in the gaps that certain members of your party leaves you're going to have a hard time....ie Doing stuff between that summoners 1 min Astral Flow rather than just waiting for the timer to be up and them to beat the BC for you.

 

[Pompidou]

There are too many people who suck at any job to single out summoners in this regard. There are bad blms and yet there are still blm-preferred events such as Divine Might or Operation Desert Swarm. I've heard of cases where an unskilled blm has caused party wipes in these events, and yet blms are still highly desired. Warrior/Ninja is the preferred tank for Promvions, and yet, there are many poor warrior/ninjas. A skilled paladin is better than a poor warrior/ninja, yet people continue to shoot for warrior/ninjas. Anyway, the skill of the player shouldn't have much bearing on the ideal jobs one seeks for an event party. If a good summoner is the best class for a specific job, then people should seek out good summoners. If the first summoner you try isn't any good, then note the name and use a different one. With the number of meleeing-nonrefreshing rdms I've partied with, and other people complain about, you never see "you're better off inviting any other job to your pt than a rdm". Just remember the bad names, don't choose them again, and things will be fine.

 

[Stouter]

As for the prommy thing, There's some things that SMN just absolutely rock at in CoP. For example the first three Prommy missions - I seriously rocked from everthing from the Spires (the blow back move did a whole lot of shit all to fenrir and he was back up there in a second while our melee tryed to get thier bearings) and he absolutely destroyed the BCNM. The Mammet fight I ended up going as WHM, I was pretty sure I would of kited pretty awesome but we didn't have a whm in the group and I think it ended up saving the day. I'll probably take WHM to Diabolos too unless we get one allready...Anyway SMN is an exceptionally good job for most Prommy missions but as with every job you need to know your limits. RNG may kick ass but if he pulls hate he's screwed, War/Nin is a killer DD/Tank but when tanking ends up wasting a lot of time getting shadows up rather than swinging an axe...I could go on but you get the point.

CoP like most everything in this game is a Party effort and if you're not there to fill in the gaps that certain members of your party leaves you're going to have a hard time....ie Doing stuff between that summoners 1 min Astral Flow rather than just waiting for the timer to be up and them to beat the BC for you.

My point is that summoner is great for the promys, and because of this everyone perceives that they must be great for every CoP BC. This is not the case. Astral Flowing smn is not the best DD available for any of the level capped fights after the first 3 promys. Without astral flow smn is a joke of a DD. For the majority of those fights a healer isn't an issue with most setups, or a whm makes a far superior healer due to erase and higher level cures.

Summoner can fit into a role in these fights, however the mentality that grabbing a couple and having them astral flow will make the fight easy is just stupid.

ps - For diabolos go as whm, the fight is much smoother with 2 whm's, especially if you have no drk to stun nightmare. That bio that comes with nightmare is about 15 a tick, and one whm erasing 6 people and keeping the tank alive is rough. Also ranger isn't screwed if they pull hate. Any ranger that's gonna be pulling hate better have ninja sub, and should be ready to kite. I've kited several BC mobs as rng/nin, including the final fight, and bought quite a bit of time for tanks to recover, and for mages to rest up mp.

There are too many people who suck at any job to single out summoners in this regard. There are bad blms and yet there are still blm-preferred events such as Divine Might or Operation Desert Swarm. I've heard of cases where an unskilled blm has caused party wipes in these events, and yet blms are still highly desired.

Those take a really bad blm to screw up. All it takes is looking at the game clock, and starting casting a spell when the time hits a pre-determined number. That's not lack of skill. That's either a bad connection, or someone that has no common sense.

Anyway, the skill of the player shouldn't have much bearing on the ideal jobs one seeks for an event party. If a good summoner is the best class for a specific job, then people should seek out good summoners. If the first summoner you try isn't any good, then note the name and use a different one. With the number of meleeing-nonrefreshing rdms I've partied with, and other people complain about, you never see "you're better off inviting any other job to your pt than a rdm". Just remember the bad names, don't choose them again, and things will be fine.

The skill is exactly what should be the determining factor, the same way Sabia said that a good pld makes a better tank than a bad war/nin for the promys.

As far as bad rdm's, what percentage of rdm's that you've partied with would you say have really made absolutely no contribution to the party? 10-20% maybe? That's a fair number I'd say, and I can say that's about my experience with both summoners and rdm's in exp. How many really excelled at their job, making the party more effecient, and doing all the duties a good rdm should do given the setup? Again 10-20%? The big difference is the middle ground. When you get a mediocre rdm, especially with a pld tank, if they can keep refresh on the pld, casting dispel when needed, and tossing out some cures, then a rdm is a huge boost to a party. This is just a small portion of their job, but doing just that makes them irreplaceable. The middle ground smn is not that great for a party, they are either a gimpy DD, or a gimpy whm. In either case you could replace them with a job better suited to do what they are trying to do.

There are some jobs where you can be ok at and be a huge boost to the party, most notably rdm brd and whm. Summoner is not one of those jobs. If you're not using your BP's to help out the party's needs, or not using your whm sub to help out the party's needs, then you're not worth having in the party.

As far as remembering the names of the bad ones and not partying with them again, it's a lot easier to remember the names of the few good ones that realized that they had BP's other than meteorite, and that realized that they could cast cures and status cures and bar-elementra spells to help out the main healer. It's a whole lot easier to remember 2 good summoners than to remember 20 bad ones.

 

[Mishaela]

I wouldn't call SMNs a "joke of a DD"...regarding the IV spells that only do 600ish, I'd compare MP-> Damage as opposed to the spell name...and the 70BPs deal great damage if the right one is used...most of the stuff pre-these spells seem to be otherwise useless only because avatars have set acc and crap, which makes it tough to make them reliable..and most people like to EXP on Beetles and Flies, which guess what, most of the DD-based BPs are blunt damage, which isn't good vs them, so most people stick to buffing the party instead since that has no chance of "crapping out" unless they use the BP right before the mob dies which'll cause the ava to look like it's using Self-Destruct. *shrug*

 

[Sandria]

Oi! As if SMNs don't already have a hard enough time getting parties. lol. Fact is, I agree to most of what you're saying. I couldn't agree more to what Sabia said though about the healing and using blood pacts. The frustrating moments of trying to get a blood pact out (or so much as the time it takes to cast the avatar).. and the tank just going from full health to no health. I am guilty of taking the role of the gimped whm more often than not. Partially due to having been a whm for so long, and partly because I was simply feeling a bit more lazy and only fullfilling the minimal tasks needed. (And also fullfilling the job that the party invited me for in the first place.)

I'd love nothing more than the parties that can communicate their skillchains well to where I'm not having the problem of either the melees doing the skillchain mid-cast or causing me to drain too much mp and then proceed with releasing avatar for them to then decide to skillchain. So many of said cases is why I generally just retreat to the gimpy-whm role.

Summoner is a very versitile job- which is why I love it so much. But, as with any job, you can only as good as the rest of the party. Party set-up also plays a major part in it too. Parties where I can play healer, support, and dd all at the same time is great-- cus trust me, spamming Cure III is not all that enjoyable to me either. But, if it's what I gotta do to get to that next lvl or that next blood pact, by all means some exp > no exp.


Now as far as CoP goes: I've said it before, I'll say it again.. Any job can get through it, but some can get through it a lot better if not easier. And I'm not sure if it was simply due the party set up that I had or not, but I went in as SMN and found it to be greatly effective. I was able to back up the WHM in the begining of the fight (since astral would kill my mp towards the end) and then manage to pull off the ending kill shot. I had one BP get resisted though, and changed up avatar to finish up. Had to have been the easiest cop mission I was on (but then again, might've been due to the team). I just wish that the Diablos Avatar fight could go as smooth *grumble*. In mammets, eh, I never seemed to get the whole kiting thing to work well. Not just as smn, but ninja and rdm kiters as well. The endurance of a SMN as a healer is nice when certain spells are not nearly as critical because they can add a nice mix to a group.

Whether or not I am a good summoner or a bad summoner, I am not sure. I have never actually exp'd with a summoner before aside from in .. the jungle.. (I think) and the smn didn't even have anything aside from carbuncle. In that sense I think I am at bit of a disadvange for the sake I have really no one to compare myself to accept for "elder summoners" who I've asked tips from. Same holding true as WHM as naturally multiple whms in a party is a bit silly. However, whether or good or not good-- I'm having fun with it. My only suggestion really is.. if the player is not performing the way that you would like, or feel would better suit the party, kindly find a way to state so to them and perhaps they might adapt. That holds true with any job. It could be that they might not have considered it.

A good example being that I normally would use fenrir to boost the ninjas eva, but in a paladin set up I didn't think to consider the fact the rangers were missing a lot of their hits (I had on filters).. and the blm very nicely asked.. "hey.. do you have fenrir?" And I was like, yes.. and he suggested to use it too boost their accuracy. He did it in a very non-offensive way and it was helpful to the party as a whole. Now granted, I suppose he could've very simply went off into ls chat or in tells saying "Gah, this smn sucks.. not even boosting the melee's accuracy".. but, 9/10 it's not going to do the party much good unless the party knows where to make the changes.

SMN job is a crowd pleaser at best, because almost every player has a different idea as to how the smn should be playing their job. Some would rather have stat boosts, some would rather have aa, some earthen ward, etc. Then you have the others who are expecting a massive DD'er in mid-range lvls because of misunderstanding the way blood pacts work.

Anyhoo.. I'm rambling.

 

[Moev]

Lucy OhhhNose.... lol

Ok 1st off just a corection on that corection. In a level 40 BCNM CoP fight a SMN needs 80MP to recast another AFBP (AstralFlow BloodPact). Pretty simple to remember really it's X2 mp your level. EG: Level 40 = 80MP, 50= 100MP, 60 = 120MP, ect ect.

My opinion on this matter is this simply...

It's two part really. 1st is alot of people have heard about the great acomplishments that SMN's have done on various servers. Which has gained some much needed respect for the job. I believe this has helped to increase the popluation of the job SMN serverwide, which typically was at about 1-2% before the "BOOM". However due to lack of proper information and guidance on how to excel at the job there are many many SMN's who play the job who don't fully understand the job and just what it has to offer and how to adapt to a party or whatever situation a SMN may find themselfs in, to the needs of that party or situation.

2nd is that along with acomplishments of fellow SMN's, people have foundout moreso about the power of 70+ SMN's BP's and all that a 70+ SMN can offer to a HNM fight, Gods, Dynamsis, ect. Which has also added to the "BOOM" of many new players to the job smn.

Now with all that in mind and to see how many SMN's still debate over such things as "what does Summoning magic do exactly...", stuff that has been tested, retested, tested, and retested again many many times by many SMN's greater then myself, all leads to confusion about the job. I can understand how someone new to the job would have a hard time learning just how to adapt and adjust to a partys situational needs, when they can't even be clear about something so simple as SMN magic. Along with the fact that someone pointed out that every job will have their fair share of players who are just not very good at that kind of a job.

Upon my return to this server I have noticed that the atmosphere here is very different then on others when looking at how SMN's interact and deal with each other. I am used to more of a teamwork vibe along with focusing on the improvment of all smns in various aspects. Like in knowldge, gear, items, ect. Where here sadly it was basically a dog eat dog, law of the land kind of deal. Fighting over gear, exp, and title of the best SMN on the server.

So lucy in all fairness, how is a SMN who is newer and trying to learn to be great at this awsome job, suppost to do so?? Where do they turn to for help and guidence?? SMN is a hard enough job as it is. I know of you and that you are not only a highly skilled player, but also a pretty cool one too. So I know you will understand what I am saying, I do however see your point and understand where your comming from.

Basically I look at it like this. If you take off for the weekend and leave the kids alone unsupervised, of course they will have their friends over and get into trouble. I know it's a bad anology but point is if they have no one to teach them how will they learn??

I guess that is why I feel fortunate to have a great group of highly skilled smns, such as Kyora, Enore, Hillie, Wak, taylor, just, and many more who although have alot of things on the go and other responsibilities in game, as members of AstralBurn. With preimere SMN's like this who as a whole offer a wealth of knowldge to pass onto up and comming SMN's on our server, I feel will help to improve the quality of SMN's here. Along with a great core group of SMN's like skoal, dragonx, Ivolt, mikkel, sabs, and honestly too many to list or remember off the top of my head along with a large amount of JP SMN's, who all have something to offer and help teach each other.

When the day finally arrives (although I may not be here at the time to see it happen) when teamwork and co-operation shine the brightest for SMN's of Quezt and Vrtra or Tiamat or even jorm is taken down by NA SMN's here it will make me even prouder to have a SMN on this server. To know that in some way I was able to have some sort of part in that will make it even better.

So lucy know that there are quite a few good people out there trying to work hard to make sure all your future exp's with a SMN will always be a great one.

P.S Sabs your an awsome SMN, we all have a bad day or moment, so I'd chalk it upto that. Hell I know in the past week I played I was so overtired I had more then a few. Like when I was standing on the wrong square in 3-5 and basically lost the fight for us when we were kicking butt (<-------- Such a sleepy idiot lol Meh) it happens. Personally I find that having 2 War's tank along with a thf or sam great while exp'n as a SMN main healer. Since not only can they share the tanking but can do a powerful SC too. I wouldn't be too hard on yourself, whoever setup the party probally didn't understand the limits of a SMN main healer. They can be great... in the proper situations.

Anyway Happy holidays to all

 

[Foofighter]

I completed all my CoP with a smn in only the Mithra BC on 3 roads. Most of us had 2 jobs we switched back and forth to complete the missions (I was nin and rng) and we had no trouble completeing all the fights with no smn. In fact we lost our 1st snoll fight with a smn - switched it out with another rng and we were good. In reality, most normal exp type setups can win most of the fights pretty easy with the right strat. Exceptions would be Ouryu and Snoll - we went in with specialized jobs for these so I am not sure if normal exp. setup would work.

 

[Moev]

Oh sorry double post again. Just wanted to say P.P.S lol Mish I am sure you know that Avatar BP spells like the IV's are <pettp> related. Just wanted to point out that during the 60-70 range (broad range since I forget exactly when BLM's get all the aga3 spells) I was fortunate enough to find myself several times in the role of MB'r aka BLM while leveling both my SMN's to post 70, where I was able to keep my avatar out throughout the fight to gain upwards of 100-200 pettp. My MB's were often hitting for the 700-900ish mark. Along with my avatar doing approx 30 damage per hit while gaining TP after looking at the past BLM's I had replaced I was doing alot more damage output per hour then the BLM.

Granted this is often a rare and openly welcomed position for a smn to find themself in, along with the fact that not only did we have a BRD for both ballads, I used yag drinks, and I had HQ staffs for the avatars I was using. Basically the best gear possible for a smn at that level - having a Pennance Robe which quite frankly not many SMN's have.

Thing is with HQ staffs I know it has been debated if it slightly increase the amount of damage your avatar can do. I do mean slightly like 10-20 damage. I personally question this theory, however I have noticed at times small differances in regards to HQ and NQ staffs. I just wonder if in some way a HQ staff lessens the chances or amounts that a mob can resist a BP IV spell, rather then actually increasing the amount of damage. Basically max'n the total possible damage to a certain mob. It's hard to say or confirm either way, but I am sure all SMN's who have ever been MB'n for 500+ damage to a mob wonder wtf when that low 30-100 MB comes rolling around on the exact same mob.

 

[Solitia]

My CoP static has a SMN that can come as either SMN or WHM to most things (Jaise), and we've used him as SMN for about half the fights.

We had him kiting a mammet in Riverne #A01 following Kyr's 1337 example, and he utterly pwned it. I don't think he was touched.

I also chose to bring him as SMN to Promy - Vahzl, not for 2-hour AOE but to quickly beat down the Holla NM (I think we overestimated the difficulty of this BC, but we still won/broke record). We've also tried a wide variety of alternative setups, and have used BRD extensively (a job that we were told was almost useless in CoP) and have had good success in every mission.

I don't think it's quite true that any job is useless for CoP or not as effective in CoP. Skilled players and a thoughtful strategy go a long way to making a setup work.