Super Smash Bros Brawl pics, now with 100% Solid Snake

[Sabia]

Clones are in SSBM because people play to kick the shit out of characters with their fave characters. It's not about the moves it's about the fact you can be Gannon and hand it to link. Sure Gannon is a clone of captian falcon, but he's friggin gannon.

 

[Tagrineth]

Just as an example, Falco is a "clone" of fox. They have very similar move lists.

The trouble is, they simply cannot be played the same way. Fox moves and attacks faster than Falco, and his horizontal and down attacks don't hit nearly as hard as Falco's. Falco's gun has knockback and does more damage, but doesn't shoot as fast. Falco's air recovery attack does no damage during preparation, and is thus much more vulnerable than Fox's.

Where a Fox player might try to wear you out with a lot of quick combos, and finish with either Grab, Throw upward, Jump, Fox Flip -> KO (or some variation of this), Falco cannot do that as his up-A in the air, while similar to Fox's, simply doesn't have the same properties and won't KO anywhere near as well. Thus, the Falco may instead use Grab, Throw upward, Jump, Sideways kick, quick drop, jump back up, and then Spike for the KO... something a Fox player would have trouble doing as Fox's side A moves in the air don't push as hard.

 

[Bajaratt]

Just as an example, Falco is a "clone" of fox. They have very similar move lists.

The trouble is, they simply cannot be played the same way. Fox moves and attacks faster than Falco, and his horizontal and down attacks don't hit nearly as hard as Falco's. Falco's gun has knockback and does more damage, but doesn't shoot as fast. Falco's air recovery attack does no damage during preparation, and is thus much more vulnerable than Fox's.

Where a Fox player might try to wear you out with a lot of quick combos, and finish with either Grab, Throw upward, Jump, Fox Flip -> KO (or some variation of this), Falco cannot do that as his up-A in the air, while similar to Fox's, simply doesn't have the same properties and won't KO anywhere near as well. Thus, the Falco may instead use Grab, Throw upward, Jump, Sideways kick, quick drop, jump back up, and then Spike for the KO... something a Fox player would have trouble doing as Fox's side A moves in the air don't push as hard.

And this is explained by most post saying they're the same character just one is faster/stronger than the other. Yeah, because fox is faster than falco, falco can't do the same combos, but that doesn't stop him from having the exact same moveset as fox, which is why people don't like the clones. Give him some different moves and no one will complain.

 

[xlucifelx]

for only three bucks at gamespot you can get all the latest info ;3 GO GO E3, and solid snake in SSB

 

[Tagrineth]

And this is explained by most post saying they're the same character just one is faster/stronger than the other. Yeah, because fox is faster than falco, falco can't do the same combos, but that doesn't stop him from having the exact same moveset as fox, which is why people don't like the clones. Give him some different moves and no one will complain.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever played the three SoulCalibur games and/or SoulEdge?

SoulCalibur and SC2 introduced several "clone" characters at a time, with only a few small differences between their move sets (besides the requisite speed/power variations).

Enter SC3 - all of the "clone" characters introduced in the previous two games received complete rewrites.

We'll see what N does with Brawl's "clones".

 

[Blaine]

Just out of curiosity, have you ever played the three SoulCalibur games and/or SoulEdge?

SoulCalibur and SC2 introduced several "clone" characters at a time, with only a few small differences between their move sets (besides the requisite speed/power variations).

Enter SC3 - all of the "clone" characters introduced in the previous two games received complete rewrites.

We'll see what N does with Brawl's "clones".

Actually, Sung Mina is still basicly the same...

 

[Bajaratt]

Just out of curiosity, have you ever played the three SoulCalibur games and/or SoulEdge?

SoulCalibur and SC2 introduced several "clone" characters at a time, with only a few small differences between their move sets (besides the requisite speed/power variations).

Enter SC3 - all of the "clone" characters introduced in the previous two games received complete rewrites.

We'll see what N does with Brawl's "clones".

Yeah, I have played them; but changing the clones was one thing I said in my previous post. This also doesn't change the fact that the characters in Melee are clones. Maybe they'll change the characters in Brawl, who knows.

 

[Sorrowfulturnip]

Makes me wonder exactly how many characters are even going to be in this game when its all said and done.

 

[Kensou]

Well I've loved Smash since it's 64 version, I really believe in an honorable clean fight, with lots of variety and cool looking kills.

Wavedashing and edge hogging are lame IMO, if you don't have enough skill to send your opponent away without preventing his recovery then you suck. Now don't give me that "maybe you can't do wavedashing and that's why you complain, blah blah blah" I can infact do it, and I know other game exploits, but it wasn't meant to be in game, same as snaking in Mario Kart, it's there, you can do it, but that's not how they meant it. Game exploits will always be there I know it, in single player games take advantage of all the game exploits you want, you're only affecting your gameplay afterall, but in multiplayer you're affecting everyone else's gameplay. As for edge hogging, there are various ways to prevent it I'm sure, but I really don't find it fun to let your opponent die just flat, I even go out to bring the opponent back to the stage and play with it some some, then send him/her flying in a cool looking manner.

In tournaments I can understand the use of these techniques, since all that matters is that you win, then again, if you won because you edgehogged, or wavedashed a lot or w/e other dishonnest technique, I'll say you're the best "wavedassher" or "edgehogger" or w/e, but not the best in the world. Tho I gotta say, the considered "best player in the world" KEN, that is, is really good, I've seen him on the videos.

 

[Reya]

well the story behind Metal Gear's Snake is that when super smash Bros. Brawl was almost completed, Kojima (sorry if I ruined name lol) approached Nintendo asking them if they could take Snake along in the game since he loved all the previous Smash Bros. Nintendo then went back into the Brawl project to add in Snake, which in turn will delay the game's release no doubt. Good cause though, I can't wait to pick up my Wii <3

 

[Blaine]

I cant wait to play with my Wii every day Perhaps I'll invite a few girls over and let them all play with my Wii at the same time..?

 

[Valcristiel]

Wii is going to be the winner once this comes out. Har har can't wait to take on people online on this >=D. That or tourneys!

 

[Jagster]

Wii is going to be the winner once this comes out. Har har can't wait to take on people online on this >=D. That or tourneys!

AND it'll be even cooler if we can do tornaments online.

 

[Tagrineth]

Well I've loved Smash since it's 64 version, I really believe in an honorable clean fight, with lots of variety and cool looking kills.

Wavedashing and edge hogging are lame IMO, if you don't have enough skill to send your opponent away without preventing his recovery then you suck. Now don't give me that "maybe you can't do wavedashing and that's why you complain, blah blah blah" I can infact do it, and I know other game exploits, but it wasn't meant to be in game, same as snaking in Mario Kart, it's there, you can do it, but that's not how they meant it. Game exploits will always be there I know it, in single player games take advantage of all the game exploits you want, you're only affecting your gameplay afterall, but in multiplayer you're affecting everyone else's gameplay. As for edge hogging, there are various ways to prevent it I'm sure, but I really don't find it fun to let your opponent die just flat, I even go out to bring the opponent back to the stage and play with it some some, then send him/her flying in a cool looking manner.

In tournaments I can understand the use of these techniques, since all that matters is that you win, then again, if you won because you edgehogged, or wavedashed a lot or w/e other dishonnest technique, I'll say you're the best "wavedassher" or "edgehogger" or w/e, but not the best in the world. Tho I gotta say, the considered "best player in the world" KEN, that is, is really good, I've seen him on the videos.

Tournament play brings out all the most extreme exploits.

Check out http://www.sirlin.net/ - Sirlin's essays and writing on "playing to win" are very interesting.

Basically, the line of thought that says things like "Wavedashing/Edgeguarding/Snaking is wrong and cheating!" is primarly used by the "plays for fun" group. These people would rather enjoy the game to its fullest, as intended.

On the other hand, there's the "plays to win" group... people that want to hone their skills and use the tools at their disposal, regardless of what those tools are, to defeat the opponent - preferrably an opponent that uses the same level of technique and skill back against them.

The "plays for fun" group still enjoys winning, but they would rather do it "with honor" and use self-imposed limitations to avoid one player getting a truly unfair advantage - things like banning the Potemkin Buster in Guilty Gear (which gives Potemkin an extremely unfair advantage over average opponents due to its extreme unblockable damage), or banning Spike attacks in Smash Bros.: Melee.

In a tournament environment, generally, you WILL see mainly people with a "plays to win" attitude, and those are the people that will come out on top, regardless. Imposing special limitations to tournaments just ends up confusing players (except for certain cases like the semi infamous "infinite damage" Iceman bug in MvC2); not only that but special limitations can vary from tournament to tournament, which would screw a lot of people up very badly as they would have to adjust to avoiding certain moves that their muscles have become attuned to using in certain situations.

well the story behind Metal Gear's Snake is that when super smash Bros. Brawl was almost completed, Kojima (sorry if I ruined name lol) approached Nintendo asking them if they could take Snake along in the game since he loved all the previous Smash Bros. Nintendo then went back into the Brawl project to add in Snake, which in turn will delay the game's release no doubt. Good cause though, I can't wait to pick up my Wii <3

Actually, Kojima requested that Snake be put into Melee, but by the time he did, it was too late to add a new character to Melee's roster. During Brawl's development, Nintendo approached Kojima about it again.

 

[Kensou]

Tournament play brings out all the most extreme exploits.

Check out http://www.sirlin.net/ - Sirlin's essays and writing on "playing to win" are very interesting.

Basically, the line of thought that says things like "Wavedashing/Edgeguarding/Snaking is wrong and cheating!" is primarly used by the "plays for fun" group. These people would rather enjoy the game to its fullest, as intended.

On the other hand, there's the "plays to win" group... people that want to hone their skills and use the tools at their disposal, regardless of what those tools are, to defeat the opponent - preferrably an opponent that uses the same level of technique and skill back against them.

The "plays for fun" group still enjoys winning, but they would rather do it "with honor" and use self-imposed limitations to avoid one player getting a truly unfair advantage - things like banning the Potemkin Buster in Guilty Gear (which gives Potemkin an extremely unfair advantage over average opponents due to its extreme unblockable damage), or banning Spike attacks in Smash Bros.: Melee.

In a tournament environment, generally, you WILL see mainly people with a "plays to win" attitude, and those are the people that will come out on top, regardless. Imposing special limitations to tournaments just ends up confusing players (except for certain cases like the semi infamous "infinite damage" Iceman bug in MvC2); not only that but special limitations can vary from tournament to tournament, which would screw a lot of people up very badly as they would have to adjust to avoiding certain moves that their muscles have become attuned to using in certain situations.

Exactly my point, thanks for clearing that up, I play for fun, and yes, tournaments are "to win".

 

[Tagrineth]

Not only that, but some players - myself and many of my RL friends included - enjoy the "plays to win" style more than "plays for fun" as long as our skill levels stay roughly analogous. We all enjoy the thrill of seeing ourselves improve in the game, and hope to participate - and excel - in tournaments some day.

Having said that, there's nothing wrong with wanting to avoid tactics like wavedashing - but complaining that they're "cheating" is weak. If you don't like them, ask opponents not to use them; most people accustomed to using them will probably find it hard to "un-learn" the tricks due to muscle memory being set, but I for one would agree to it.

 

[Swishiee]

*tear*

But I'm definately a Mario fan in that game...WA HOO!

Seriously. She kicks some ass with Mario and Dr. Mario.

For characters, I like the idea of third party characters. But my thing is they have to at least had their start on a Nintendo system. Mega Man would be awesome. He went through seven+ games until he went to other systems. Even though Snake started out on the Japan only MSX, he got his big break on the NES version of Metal Gear.

I am, however, against them adding Waluigi if they were to do it. I'm cool with Daisy because she's in the Mario Land games for the Game Boy. But Waluigi was pretty much added just to be Luigi's version of Wario in Mario Party and the Mario sports games.

Pit is awesome because he hasn't really been around since his Game Boy game. And I believe Mr. Miyamoto said he'd like to see Pit make a return on the Wii. If it wasn't him who said it, then it was someone else from Nintendo. Pit didn't quite surprise me as an addition, but I still think it's awesome. Metaknight surprised as a new character for this one. I never even really thought of him as being a character for Smash Bros. Zero Suit Samus = meh. I'm sure she'll controll different out of her suit though, so there's a plus instead of it being the same character, just different attributes. Then I'm glad the FINALLY added Wario. I was highly surprised he wasn't in SSBM. He deserves to be in SSBM because he's had several solo games, without Mario at all.

One thing I was thinking would be cool for this one would be not only costume colour changes, but complete costume changes. Like Wario would have his Warioware costume as default, but then he could have another costume of his purple overalls and yellow shirt. Samus could have different looking suits (Light, Dark, Varia, X, etx), and so on with other characters. I think it'd be a cool addition.

 

[Skaw]

well the story behind Metal Gear's Snake is that when super smash Bros. Brawl was almost completed, Kojima (sorry if I ruined name lol) approached Nintendo asking them if they could take Snake along in the game since he loved all the previous Smash Bros. Nintendo then went back into the Brawl project to add in Snake, which in turn will delay the game's release no doubt. Good cause though, I can't wait to pick up my Wii <3

Kinda incorrect. You were right, originally, Kojima did request Snake to be added to Melee, but it was too late in production. Read the info on the official link I posted on the first page. Brawl was pretty much started up on the spot. They announced it last E3, and there wasn't even a team made up to produce it. During character implementation, they asked Kojima if he still wanted Snake in the franchise, and he did.

 

[Rinoah]

Not only that, but some players - myself and many of my RL friends included - enjoy the "plays to win" style more than "plays for fun" as long as our skill levels stay roughly analogous. We all enjoy the thrill of seeing ourselves improve in the game, and hope to participate - and excel - in tournaments some day.

Having said that, there's nothing wrong with wanting to avoid tactics like wavedashing - but complaining that they're "cheating" is weak. If you don't like them, ask opponents not to use them; most people accustomed to using them will probably find it hard to "un-learn" the tricks due to muscle memory being set, but I for one would agree to it.

I don't call it cheating (its not like you enter a code or anything for it) its a bug. Which isn't really supposed to be used (in my opinion).

Also none of my friends know about wavedashing so i don't use it as i consider it an unfair advantage. I would classify myself a nice balance between play for fun and play to win as i like to win but i prefer to do it with rules inplace.

Besides its so satisfying hearing "wait...did you just kill him with shieks 3rd jump? is that even possible!?!"

Its also entertaining watching friends who don't own the game pick DK when someone picks Jigglypuff because "Dk is bigger so he will win".

I might change my style to play to win however once the online play comes out. I am fiercely competitive with friends, but try to control it for their sake...i see no need online .

 

[Halifirien]

Heh. Sorry for the thread necro (only 10 days, so the corpse is still viable), but this week's VG Cats comic gives us a glimpse of Snake's future in the game.