Swift Belt or Life Belt? A definitive answer

[Jojojo]

When is Swift Belt better than Life Belt? Surely with little accuracy, haste won't do you much good...but eventually haste is better, right? This is the answer on when to use Swift vs. Life.

Swift Belt is better than Life Belt when:

Hit rate > 82.5%, levels 50-71.
Hit rate > 78.125%, levels 72-74.
Hit rate > 69.5%, level 75.

The level difference is due to new haste gear at levels 72 and 75.

If you have haste cast on you, the percentages go down a lot more...so if you have haste cast on you, use swift belt unless you're overcamping like crazy.

link to proof

Sorry if the proof is messy. I don't know how to write reciprocals in Microsoft Word...


What if I don't know my hit rate? What then, huh?

Parse it, you buffoon! Or guess! 8-10 battles is plenty to get a decent estimate of your hit rate, I'd prove it but I'm too tired atm.

Anyway, enjoy. If this should be in the endgame forum I apologize =|

 

[Rappa]

if you have haste cast on you, use swift belt

tl;dr version

 

[ForteTeppo]

as much as i try too, i dun understand most net speak. What that mean again? :I

 

[Ewok]

Seeing that acc+ gear is more readily available in other slots, I think swift belt always wins out. Only thing I dislike about it is the -att >.> But I don't think I will ever TP in anything else. Basically, you need a total gear setup comparison, from 50 and up.

 

[Jakey]

Seeing that acc+ gear is more readily available in other slots, I think swift belt always wins out. Only thing I dislike about it is the -att >.> But I don't think I will ever TP in anything else. Basically, you need a total gear setup comparison, from 50 and up.

ya to say certain acc amounts by lvl without even saying which job is kind of silly as we have access to different amounts of haste gear. but more importantly swift belt always wins(unless you have speed or something) because your acc should never be that low and usually you should have haste anyways.

 

[Diabllos]

Swift Belt > Life Belt

Haste is a lot less available than Acc. Therefore, haste should be put wherever possible (with the exception of lolBlitz), and a setup should be used to make it work for best results. I really can't think of a situation where Accuracy would be that serious an issue to replace it.

There's so much accuracy gear available, where haste can't be put. Jaridah/SH/Hauby in the late 50's, Acc+10 on the rings from Lv40... combined with the accuracy boost from 2handers making accuracy even less of an issue for jobs like DRK, SAM, DRG, and even WAR nowadays. Jobs like NIN and THF will be using sushi, making Life belt very much a waste in comparison to Swift. MNK doesn't come into this, obviously, and I didn't include PUP because it's not a real job.

Edit: Forgot to mention, that it's only 7 Acc Vs 4% Haste when comparing the two. And at 50+, with both RDM and WHM having access to haste, you shouldn't ever not have haste.

 

[Jojojo]

against lesser colibri in your mid 50s and regular colibri in your early 60s, you won't be able to eat sushi, and the level difference is enough that you probably cannot hit 82% hit rate. At this point you will find that Life Belt is better.

Also, Rappa, SCH doesn't have haste, if you have that instead of RDM in your party. But you're basically right.

 

[Jakey]

against lesser colibri in your mid 50s and regular colibri in your early 60s, you won't be able to eat sushi, and the level difference is enough that you probably cannot hit 82% hit rate. At this point you will find that Life Belt is better.

Also, Rappa, SCH doesn't have haste, if you have that instead of RDM in your party. But you're basically right.

Use squid sushi.

if your a nin tank I guess I can understand no food but in that case you should be being hasted and swift still wins.

 

[Jojojo]

Use squid sushi.

if your a nin tank I guess I can understand no food but in that case you should be being hasted and swift still wins.

It's hard enough to get people to use mithkabobs, no one is going to use squid sushi on birds.

Well, whatever. I thought I'd share my research. For those of you who want to use swift belt forever, do it. Personally I'm going to make sure I'm using the right one.

 

[Ewok]

Unfortunately, by the sounds of it, you have already made up your mind on the subject, and are a little upset we don't agree with you ("I'll use the right one"). What is your gear setup where you absolutely need that +7 acc? How much +acc in gear are you looking for? By the time you hit 60, you have access to SH, various acc rings (from +3 to +7 for those who are rich, lol), and PCC. I'm sure I am missing others, but I don't know what job you are using either. Something like nin actually benefits from haste in more ways then just dmg/tp. I am all for being original and going against popular belief, but to compare 1 slot only I believe is simplifying things too much.


I am not able to access the file in your link, mainly because I am not signed up to the site in it. I will try and sign up later and look at what "proof" you have compiled.

 

[Sandria]

You're all pretty much right. Typically accuracy isnt an issue in the level range where the bellt is available, but yah if you're having a whiff fest .. whiffing faster without an additional need for haste aside from TP.. then yes, Life Belt would be better.

 

[Jojojo]

Unfortunately, by the sounds of it, you have already made up your mind on the subject, and are a little upset we don't agree with you ("I'll use the right one"). What is your gear setup where you absolutely need that +7 acc?

How much +acc in gear are you looking for?

If your initial hit rate is below 82%, you do absolutely need that 7 acc, as it will benefit you more than 4% haste. I am a little upset that people are oversimplifying things and outright resisting concrete analysis, but what can you do. I didn't mean to condescend: I only mean that I will use the right belt for the situation, whichever it is.

To answer your question, I'm looking for at least a 82% hit rate. If I can get that without life belt, I'd love to use swift.

I am all for being original and going against popular belief, but to compare 1 slot only I believe is simplifying things too much.


I am not able to access the file in your link, mainly because I am not signed up to the site in it. I will try and sign up later and look at what "proof" you have compiled.

If you check my "proof" you will see precisely why your other gear doesn't matter. You can separate haste and accuracy from everything else in the DPS function--they are coefficients of it, already separated. Attack, def, STR, VIT, nothing else matters for this discussion because whatever damage you do is multiplied by the frequency with which you hit and the speed with which you do it.

If someone can suggest a file-hosting site that works, I'd be happy to put it there.

 

[pchan]

If your initial hit rate is below 82%, you do absolutely need that 7 acc, as it will benefit you more than 4% haste. .

No. Assume you have 80% accuracy and haste spell + march cast on you, but no other haste gear

- number of swings during 100x the base delay of you weapon

with swift : total haste 15+11+4=30% spell+gear, so 100/(1-0.30)=143 swings
without swift : 26%, so 100/(1-0.26)=135 swings

- number of swings that hit the mob

with swift, acc 81.5%, so 143x0.815=116 hits
without swift, but life belt, 85% acc, so 114 hits

You can type a general formula, but with this setup swift > life if you have more than 60% acc. This is typically what happens during standard XP party.

Now for merits it's even more obvious, as your accuracy is better, and haste gear is more available for all jobs. Let's say you are thf using turban, lv50 jse body, swift, dusk gloves feet, barbarossa zereh. total : 21% haste on gear. That's 47% haste with spells and swift belt.

then swift > life as long as you have more than 45% accuracy which covers all possible foods.

general formula for the number of swings is
accuracy*100/(1-haste%)

 

[mdkuser]

You can also use those formulas to get an idea on when it's better to use meat over sushi. And the result should be, when your accuracy is over about 85%, meat wins.

 

[Jojojo]

No. Assume you have 80% accuracy and haste spell + march cast on you, but no other haste gear

- number of swings during 100x the base delay of you weapon

with swift : total haste 15+11+4=30% spell+gear, so 100/(1-0.30)=143 swings
without swift : 26%, so 100/(1-0.26)=135 swings

- number of swings that hit the mob

with swift, acc 81.5%, so 143x0.815=116 hits
without swift, but life belt, 85% acc, so 114 hits

You can type a general formula, but with this setup swift > life if you have more than 60% acc. This is typically what happens during standard XP party.

Now for merits it's even more obvious, as your accuracy is better, and haste gear is more available for all jobs. Let's say you are thf using turban, lv50 jse body, swift, dusk gloves feet, barbarossa zereh. total : 21% haste on gear. That's 47% haste with spells and swift belt.

then swift > life as long as you have more than 45% accuracy which covers all possible foods.

general formula for the number of swings is
accuracy*100/(1-haste%)

I already said that having haste cast on you changes things. In fact, it lowers the 82% to 69% without any other haste gear. Since you brought up March as well, it would probably in fact lower it to 60% as you said.

Then you bring up having 21% haste on gear. These equations were obviously not for merit use--of COURSE you will break 69% (lower with haste and march) in a merit party. This is for your 50s and maybe 60s during awkward colibri levels.

I appreciate your using math to support your argument though...what you have looks a lot like what I have in my proof.