TA + WS

[Cherron]

With Trick Attack being modified by AGI and most Dagger WS (Dancing Edge, Shark Bite, Evisceration) being modified by DEX and to some degree STR, at what point does adding more AGI overcome the DEX and STR modifiers on a WS?

I know THF AF+1 hands add an additional 15% AGI and is recommended for all things TA and TA WS. Keeping along this point, if one had AF+1 hands, would it be equally beneficial to swap out DEX pieces for AGI on a TA WS? This is, of course, assuming you could still land all of your hits, in instances such as the mob has Feint effect.

 

[Khajit]

Think of agi as a 100% mod to the first hit of a WS.(well basically because it is)
Then simply guesstimate the damage difference using that info.
So on something like mandalic stab this would be an easy decision.
For that :
1 agi=1 dmg
3 dex = about 1 dmg
Of course you're going to want to factor in the af+1 and to a degree the acc+ resulting from the dex among other things for DE but even just a basic idea like the fact that agi is a 100% mod during trick attack can help you make a more informed decision.

 

[Sneakypants]

TA + WS has better returns, even with AF+1 Hands and FULL AGI build, with stats that cater directly to the WS mods. AF+1 Hands and FULL AGI build is great for Solo TA, however. One can really bolster solo TA damage in that regard. WS average output will suffer if the emphasis is placed on AGI stacking. As Khajit mentioned, it will help out your first strike, while the remaining hits aren't modded at all or as much as they could be with gear that catered directly to the mods of the WS.

I usually try and break SA, TA and WS out separately, but if I have to stack, I'd rather stack on SA. Some people prefer having a TA partner, but I lose just as many SA to a turning MOB as I do TA to a blinking/moving TA buddy.

Play around with it more for yourself, but I don't find TA+WS worth it even with AF+1 hands and full AGI build. Now, if you merely supplement your TA + WS build with some AGI, while keeping most of the usual gear for WSing, you might be able to find a better balance. That flat % boost to AGI for solo TA from the gloves is fantastic though.

 

[mdkuser]

Dont TA+WS. instead, solo TA and SA+WS for more dmg.

 

[Javir]

If you can't afford the room to SA and TA build, SA over TA every time. I do keep some TA gear, so what I do is I have a TA macro and an SA macro. Both macros have some exclusive pieces that I use for either one and then lines specifically for whether is a TA or SA.

For example, if I want to SA, I use my TA macro then my SA macro to get all the gear associated with SA. I do the reverse for TA, using the SA > TA... now if only we got more lines for macros, it would be that much easier lol...


Anyhow, I still say focus on SA, because your WSs are modified by DEX for the most part so it all works well together.

 

[Phraust]

Think of agi as a 100% mod to the first hit of a WS.(well basically because it is)
Then simply guesstimate the damage difference using that info.
So on something like mandalic stab this would be an easy decision.
For that :
1 agi=1 dmg
3 dex = about 1 dmg
Of course you're going to want to factor in the af+1 and to a degree the acc+ resulting from the dex among other things for DE but even just a basic idea like the fact that agi is a 100% mod during trick attack can help you make a more informed decision.

This is actually pretty good, I never thought of it like that. Good Job Khaj.

Personally I must confess I have gotten a little bit lazy when it comes to thief gear. In general all the numbers are +/- 50 damage at the absolute best/worst circumstances. To me that's just not enough to stress over, mainly because the average of that is a lot less...

Also worth noting: Stack SA and TA with Weaponskills, always for both. It's not THAT hard to get 100 TP in 30 seconds on thief, even if you do 100TP every 45 seconds it's worth it in my opinion. That's just my playstyle though.

 

[Sneakypants]

Yeah stacking is a better option on higher def MOBs. On most MOBs though it really just totals what your solo SA or TA would do plus what your WS would do. Ensuring that the first hit of the WS will land, given that you're properly lined up as well. The drawback is that we talk about 30 second TP, and 45 second TP. Big difference. For all the times you don't stack right at 30 seconds, those seconds add up over time to sum up the amount of time you did nothing and could have.

Like you said, you may see nominal differences with gear. You will also see nominal differences depending on play style as well. In the end it's not a big deal or anything, but all those nominal differences add up. I don't always do it as effectively and efficiently as possible. I don't always care. But when I do, I know how to maximize DPS. That's damage measured in seconds, not 1/2 or 3/4 minutes. Because seconds ultimately matter. We just have the choice to work harder and play to squeeze out every bit of damage we can per second, or relax a bit and let several seconds every minute pass by without performing optimally. I understand play styles, but splitting everything and using /JAs and WS the moment they are available (assuming it's not massive overkill in doing so), will prove to be the most effective DPS as you waste very little to no time. You just won't see as many individual Epeen numbers. I still enjoy stacking everything I can whenever I can, simply for the novelty of it. That doesn't mean that's the most effective option though.