Tanking

[Dowzer]

Honcho gave me the opportunity to tank Sarameya on SAM/WAR. Well actually, he thought I was crazy and wouldn't normally put a SAM in that position. I wouldn't either, unless they know wtf they are doing with the proper gear to support it.

Songs were Carol/Ballad or Carol/March, whichever the PLD needed at the time. A few times we only had Barfira on, but it didn't really matter.

Fire Resist set had: Fire+120 MDT-9% MDB+4. This set could have much more Fire Resist, but only 225+ is needed for Sarameya.

Physical Reduction set had: PDT-30% and -50% if I equipped Terra's Staff, but it wasn't needed. -40% with the Campaign Lance, however my damage would suffer incredibly. (PLM requires too much support, Madrigal/Minuet/Berserk for good accuracy and damage. If I had a personal BRD I would definitely use it.)

Enmity set had: PDT-25% and Enmity+34. Used with Provoke/Warcry/Hasso/Seigan

All of that mitigation gear makes it very manageable. I wish we had 5/5 Phalanx II cast on us, as well as a constant Regen III and Dancer's roll. Phalanx helps to 0 a majority of nukes, Regen III and Dancer's roll totally negate Sara's Poison additional effect (30/tic). Instead, I brought a few stacks of Antidotes.

Sara has an obvious pattern of Howl > Ululation > Firaga III/Gates > Magma Hoplon > Howl. On the last Howl it clears everyone from the hate list - but leaves their enmity untouched. The tank's goal is to perform an action on Sarameya before a mage does, when a mage does first, it's usually because they are dispelling Magma Hoplon.

The key for the SAM is to DD, keeping up with the PLD's hate while mitigating any damage taken. They need to be very aggressive, WS whenever possible and mash JA abilities to maintain hate. (Use Hasso>Seigan>Third Eye every 60 seconds.)

Regular TP gear should be full timed when Third Eye is up. Fire Resist gear is full timed during Chainspell. Very quick equipment swaps are needed in certain situations: When Third Eye falls, PDT immediately. When Firaga III/Flare II/Fire IV are being cast on you, Fire Resist gear immediately.

Here are some damage screenshots.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

 

[ds083roadkill]

i was under the assumption sam tanking was designed for 10 or so members, not 16. should be zerging

 

[Dowzer]

You're telling this to a guy who keeps his DRK at 72. ^^

I suggested it but they didn't want to.

 

[LadyKiKi]

Hard to trust a pickup group style to zerg it actually, considering the time it took to get the 500 zeni too lol

Also the reason why I absolutely demanded I stay out of the party.

Firaga and Para also hit me despite me not having hate and outside of party, so I had to back off a little, initally i wanted to close it in and popcorn, but didn't work.

And also, I was surprised how much the fire attacks did to you, despite not being in full fire gear. Was neat. I suppose the fire carols helped a bit.

EDIT: wait why the hell is 24 called Katashi

EDIT2: Wait, is this another pop I wasn't on for

EDIT3: this must be, did you win? drop?

 

[Dowzer]

Yeah that was another pop. We had it 5% until ultimately everyone died.

Dispel was going fine for the entire fight but positioning was always a problem. Really, the best way to position is: (In this position, it lets mages be over 20' away, even 25' and still be able to cast on the tanks.)

Sara > Tanks >>> Mages
V V V
Ranged DD

Instead, we were positioned as: (In this position, mages couldn't be over 20' away, they wouldn't be able to cast on the tanks)

Tanks >>> Mages
^^^
Sara
V V V
Ranged DD

Ultimately the mages were avoiding every Firaga, but that's only a 15' distance around the target. When it started using GoH, mages were getting hit. On top of that, at 9% too many people were in range and died.

 

[Zoolander]

Use two SAMs, PLD + SAM is not really a balanced tanking team. Could try subbing NIN as well, voke isn't really that necessary and it obviously reduces the DMG taken. I'm sure either would work though...biggest fix is just getting two tanks together that compliment each other. Or zerg like the others said lol

Oh yea, and just position yourselves correctly like dowzer pointed out, no reason for mages to be consistently getting paralyzed. Not really rocket science figuring how how to best position yourselves so that tanks are in between the mages and Cerb/Sara.

 

[Dowzer]

While I'd like to sub nin (it seems to tank SCNM trigger item mobs very well) it's not too realistic with this. Would Elegy/Slow land with ES maybe? It just seems like a hassle because Seigan really shines with mobs who attack quickly.

I don't know about Provoke, it seemed necessary after the Howling phase. I also made an effort to have 100 TP ready to WS after the last Howl. Sometimes, actually more often than not, just before my WS would fire off, a spell would be cast on Sara after the last howl. I tried to save Provoke in case Sara ran for the mages.

Gotta agree about having two SAM rather than mix matching tanks. I know how well Atonement works against it but it's just no match for DD jobs. It's because it's attacks are quite weak, both physically and magically. I've read about alternative methods to SAM tanks, with dual WAR/SAM.

 

[Hobobob]

Think I remember reading it was immune to Slow/Elegy. Wether pick up group or not, zerging is the easiest way to go, the longer something is there the more chance for something bad to happen there is. With 16 people a zerg can be done w/o using 2-hrs, although on your first try you may want to use 2-hrs just to be safe.

 

[Dowzer]

Think I remember reading it was immune to Slow/Elegy. Wether pick up group or not, zerging is the easiest way to go, the longer something is there the more chance for something bad to happen there is. With 16 people a zerg can be done w/o using 2-hrs, although on your first try you may want to use 2-hrs just to be safe.

I read it is immune too, someone mentioned it's possible with ES but I have my doubts. I convinced Rawr to burn their first Kirin (after countless kited pops) by discussing with leaders to start a poll for our members, with a majority in favor, we burned every single one after that. We had nothing special besides a great group of people who worked well with each other and had common sense to deal great damage as DD jobs, organize songs properly as BRDs and keep everyone alive as WHMs. The only zerg knights we had were my OCDRK and a FortDRK. Later on a few members put me to shame with KCs. :nono:

I have no problems organizing and directing a zerg, this one's not particularly different from Kirin aside Barstonra<Barfira.

 

[Darkakuma]

The first run was basically a test run for Honcho and me.
We knew we would prolly wipe considering we don't really
have a static group and shout for pickup members. As far
as zerg went we know its easier from talking with many
friends about it but doing so with a pick-up group didn't
seem worth it and were lacking bards etc at the time.
First run dispel was a big issue. Was times it would regen
almost 20% because spikes were on. Also like scwall said
mages died several times being in range of spells/gates/etc.
Small things to, para etc.
Second run again decided not to do zerg. Just seems to
risky without a solid group you have done similar things
with before. Kept dispel on it very good this time. Maybe
once or twice it regen'd 5-10%ish. I think when we got
it down to 5%ish we just lacked DD for the most part.
We also put the DD which was mostly us 3 rangers on
one side of the island mages in other and tanked Sara
in the middle. Middle being in the wall where there is like
that little cove.
As far as 2 sam's tanking instead of a
paladin and sam I could see it working good if they are
geared as well as scwall was. He did an awesome job tanking
was tempted to go sam the second run after watching
him on the first. I don't see /nin working and being able
to constantly DD though which is needed in a non-zerg
setup I think though. I pulled hate after almost every
slugshot and I was holding back most of the time.
Also stun was an issue. Read many mixed things on
it. Some sites said it would only resist between the rotate
of first and second howl which wasn't true. So we held
stun till gates but even then resist rate was very high
from what I remember. Think we stunned 2 out of like
7 maybe?
So for straight up fighting I think we just need some
small fixes for it to be a constant win. 2 solid tanks sam/sam
or pld/sam could go with one but don't like risking it unless
we make a LS and members work well with each other but
if open to dabate for others on there runs. 2-3 solid dispel'ers
Even the best rdm will get resisted randomly. So for tank
PT pld/sam rdm whm brd and 6th your choice (rdm/brd/whm/etc)
Then just really need a DD PT because I think this is completely
doable with 12 members. Range attackers being best I think.
Rng Rng Rng Smn Cor or brd and thief(For those TH lovers).
Thats going without stun for gates. And a blm or 2 if we can
find postive info on resist rates.
Dark.

 

[Daveee]

you just need me, PLD or RNG

P.S, Too weak Galka

 

[Dowzer]

If I eat sushi I'll hold hate a lot better. I whiffed so many WS it wasn't funny, I'd say that's the main reason you had to hold back.

 

[ds083roadkill]

not sure the differance on how strong hagun ws were hitting for without melee buffs/songs or SA, but the acc effect on ushi acc would be in effect on sara, as well s the hp and emnity holding some merit.

inc trolls

 

[Treg]

Few suggestions:

We used a hybrid defense set. In my case i used HQ arhat head/body, Seiryu's kote, Usukane sune-ate, byakko's haidate, Jelly ring, boxer's mantle and the rest was normal TP gear (if I didn't have usukane sune-ates i would've used Askar feet/hachiman hands). This way we were able to keep doing damage while third eye was down without taking an insane amount of damage.

We used rabbit pies, good defense and attack food.

We used madrigal/Carol. This really sped up the fight vs. our first try using either minuet or march/carol.

About the missing WS stuff, I'm sure you were just having a bad day. Y/G/K usually have capped accuracy as long as you're not blinded/flashed, Sarameya is not the exception to this.

COR with SAM's roll and DNC's roll and a RDM with capped Phalanx II (I know dowzer already mentioned them but they really really help)

Don't use /nin. Saying that you somehow can keep shadows up, you're gonna spend almost all of your time casting Utsusemi and you're going to hurt your damage a lot. Also, Provoke is really useful for when it howls and resets hate.

I don't remember if Dowzer mentioned this, but WS when it uses Magma Hoplon. It's a Stoneskin move so the more damage you do the faster it will break.


Sorry if there are any grammar errors, english is not my first language and on top of that, it's late here.

 

[Dowzer]

Rabbit pie is a great suggestion and I didn't even think of it. I do have a hybrid set as well, maybe I'll use that more often, instead of using -30% when Third Eye is down. Hybrid is -25% so that's not a big loss. Madrigal/Carol would really really speed it up as I lose a lot of accuracy with both PDT/Hybrid.

Do you mean use my WS when it does the Howl phase Magma Hoplon? I understand the Stoneskin, it can't be dispelled like Blaze Spikes so damage has to break it.

As for YGK, I would switch a few STR items like Forager's > Cuch, Kirin's > Haub +1 which adds more accuracy than dropping Hagun's TP Bonus for Ushikirimaru. I already use sole sushi instead of pizza or attack food at MMJ which I get great results from. Going from 80.43% to 94.14% accuracy is the best thing any SAM can do at MMJ.

I used full STR gear (+56 before Food/Hasso) and was hitting for 500~700 and 900~1k DA.