Teh 1337 Rdm debate.......

[K. Ishitar]

To answer the OP, I am an elite RDM and you are totally free to discuss my awesomeness, all twenty-two levels of ass kicking leetness!~

*looks around and scampers off in a hurry* h34r:

I'm lost >.>";


Huh?!

Well it was a good thread for the first few pages, until it flamed here and there

/roasts marshmallows

 

[Prothall]

at least this one had some sort of direction, where as the summoner thread just got shat on forever.

RDM MB & Main heal ftw!

 

[Bigboy]

You still should not pull. It endangers the party and adds nothing to the party situation itself. While yes, you get another mob to camp, but so what? The normal puller can still go pull another mob, instead of you pulling it and possibly endangering the party.

And I never said its automatically a merit party if its a merit zone. What I said was, that unless its a merit party, or possibly a 70+ party, the RDM should not pull.

Whatever, cuz BRDs havent been doing it since those levels anyways? And they are in far wose situations since they can be stuck in a 12 second song when sleep wears off.

Are you new or something? That last argument was BS and you know it. Not Safe? Killing VT-IT monsters isn't safe, but thats what you do to get xp. Bigger risks, bigger rewards. Thats what we do in this game.

 

[Uzor]

Whatever, cuz BRDs havent been doing it since those levels anyways? And they are in far wose situations since they can be stuck in a 12 second song when sleep wears off.

Are you new or something? That last argument was BS and you know it. Not Safe? Killing VT-IT monsters isn't safe, but thats what you do to get xp. Bigger risks, bigger rewards. Thats what we do in this game.

BRD's usually don't pull pre-70 parties at all. The THF usually do, you should know that. Atleast none of the parties I had, BRD's never pulled because of that reason.

Seriously, from all of your arguments, it seems that you're either new, or just plain sucks. Either that or argue for the sake of arguing.

 

[K. Ishitar]

Then one of you be mature enough to stop the bash fest? but hell thats just me bashing you guys there.....

 

[Bigboy]

BRD's usually don't pull pre-70 parties at all. The THF usually do, you should know that. Atleast none of the parties I had, BRD's never pulled because of that reason.

Seriously, from all of your arguments, it seems that you're either new, or just plain sucks. Either that or argue for the sake of arguing.

Good/skilled players don't need to do the norm. They can perform unusal tasks that others skip over due to difficulty and complexity. It seems the biggest problem we are having here is you acting like I don't know wtf I am doing, and/or am surrounded by idiots. For maximum xp/hour, which is the goal of a RDM (which I agree with) you do things the way I've stated. You can do well without them, but thats THE BEST way to do it from my experiences. If I wanted to do it as per the norm it would be easier, but I'm willing to take that extra step. If you aren't, thats fine, but don't bother talking down to me cuz I'm not following the old rules. We all know what that gets you, and I know I can get more.

I pull, on my BRD at it's current level, and have for the past 3 levels. Aside from the first pull I did, I have been hit exactly 2 times while pulling.

My conclusion: Your BRD's were not skilled enough. (at the time, they may be great now =P)

I was more capable on my RDM at those levels though, and more effective, because I could run the full gammet of debuffs on the mob while it sat there, but on BRD it pretty much just sits, since I pulled with elegy.

Quit acting like I am some goober, my meathods have shown far more effectiveness than any other RDM I have PT'd with on any job. There are RDMs in the end game more experienced than me, but when it comes to XP parties, no one has ever measured up. There were decent ones, and some damn good ones, but there is always room for improvement. I've learned not to expect the best anymore, and am happy enough with that, but being told by some prick that pulling ahead of time and predebuffing a mob is a bad idea, while not ignoring all other duties, is ludacris. It's like the Allah forums all over again. Peace out Uzor.

You've reconfirmed my belief that even at the top of the chain there will be tools trying to slam down pure efficiency and effectiveness just because they've never tried it or seen it done.

 

[hellstorm]

agian all this depends on party setup and your sub there really is no 1 way to play rdm why do you all try to disect it so:wacko:

 

[Uzor]

Good/skilled players don't need to do the norm. They can perform unusal tasks that others skip over due to difficulty and complexity. It seems the biggest problem we are having here is you acting like I don't know wtf I am doing, and/or am surrounded by idiots. For maximum xp/hour, which is the goal of a RDM (which I agree with) you do things the way I've stated. You can do well without them, but thats THE BEST way to do it from my experiences. If I wanted to do it as per the norm it would be easier, but I'm willing to take that extra step. If you aren't, thats fine, but don't bother talking down to me cuz I'm not following the old rules. We all know what that gets you, and I know I can get more.

I pull, on my BRD at it's current level, and have for the past 3 levels. Aside from the first pull I did, I have been hit exactly 2 times while pulling.

My conclusion: Your BRD's were not skilled enough. (at the time, they may be great now =P)

I was more capable on my RDM at those levels though, and more effective, because I could run the full gammet of debuffs on the mob while it sat there, but on BRD it pretty much just sits, since I pulled with elegy.

Quit acting like I am some goober, my meathods have shown far more effectiveness than any other RDM I have PT'd with on any job. There are RDMs in the end game more experienced than me, but when it comes to XP parties, no one has ever measured up. There were decent ones, and some damn good ones, but there is always room for improvement. I've learned not to expect the best anymore, and am happy enough with that, but being told by some prick that pulling ahead of time and predebuffing a mob is a bad idea, while not ignoring all other duties, is ludacris. It's like the Allah forums all over again. Peace out Uzor.

You've reconfirmed my belief that even at the top of the chain there will be tools trying to slam down pure efficiency and effectiveness just because they've never tried it or seen it done.

No, the reason because I'm talking down to you is because its not the most effective way to do it. Exactly what is the "benefit" of converting every 20 min? Is it so that you have convert ready in case something unexpected happened?

According to you earlier, unexpected things you can't handle never happens, which defeats the whole purpose of converting every 20 min. For the best effectivness and best exp, you convert every 10 min, and try to time your MP usage for that. That is not an old rule, the old rule is "converting when you're out of MP". the one you use.

And I never said its useless to debuff the mob while its asleep. Hell, I do that too. But pulling mobs as RDM pre merit parties is just stupid, and endangers the party. Unexpected things do and will happen, and all it requires is some bad luck, and your entire party can wipe.

and saying your methods have shown far better results then any other RDM is not really saying a lot, as I know from personal experience that a great majority of RDMes just plain out sucks. And I know that, as I have lvled 4 obs up to 75. and god knows that makes me extremely depressed (which is why, on every job I lvl, I write a list of good RDMes I party with).

You've reconfirmed my belief that even at the top of the chain there will be tools trying to slam down pure efficiency and effectiveness just because they've never tried it or seen it done.

Glad you noticed what you yourself are doing. Although you wouldn't know what's more effective if you always do it the way you yourself are doing and refusing to try something new. I too played like you when I lvled RDM. And I got many comments on my red mage skills, but later on, I slowly developed the way I play RDM, and now I play it this way, and its proven to be far more effective in exp parties.

 

[Uzor]

for some reason it double posted ;

 

[Bigboy]

No, the reason because I'm talking down to you is because its not the most effective way to do it. Exactly what is the "benefit" of converting every 20 min? Is it so that you have convert ready in case something unexpected happened?

According to you earlier, unexpected things you can't handle never happens, which defeats the whole purpose of converting every 20 min. For the best effectivness and best exp, you convert every 10 min, and try to time your MP usage for that. That is not an old rule, the old rule is "converting when you're out of MP". the one you use.

The above was not said by me.

...............

I dont see whats wrong with just waiting it out. ; ;

Nothing says you HAVE to convert just cuz its ready. I like to stretch my MP as far as it'll go.

!=20 minutes

Quit making shit up. This isnt the first time in this thread you've done it. Seriously, go back and read it, its still there, you have all the time in the world to properly quote me and not just blatently lie and say I said something.

 

[Uzor]

/sigh, go read it earlier

When exactly do you convert then? You also said you still have half of your MP pool left when convert is ready. Meaning if you keep it up, you'll be empty at 20 min

 

[Bigboy]

/sigh, go read it earlier

When exactly do you convert then? You also said you still have half of your MP pool left when convert is ready. Meaning if you keep it up, you'll be empty at 20 min

Took me a while to find it, but this is the only instance where I mention me having half MP in the whole thread.

I dont just toss spells out because my convert timer is up, I use them because they need to be cast. And a Blizzard 2, at level 55 with my convert timer up, and half my MP, doesn't need to be cast. The same examples carry over to other levels. I keep my MP at a reasonable level so I can always cure when needed, or we can pull when people go afk, or whatever. Walking the line with you're MP leaves you with less options, should anything unfavorable happen. And the time and XP saved from that is always better in the long run. I could bust nukes out my ass till I run out of MP when convert is up, or I can just sit on it. One is disruptive to everyone's groove, while the other maintains chains and keeps everything smooth.

Of course, to put it in context. I was arguing that busting out a bunch of nukes to clear your MP before a convert was a bad idea. I think anyone can attest to spamming nukes as a bad idea. Good way to get yourself some unwanted hate right before dropping your HP to single didgits and throwing out some cure 4s...

I still fail to see how that equals 20 minutes though. If you keep basing arguments off of things that aren't really there, things are gonna keep going down hill.

 

[Uzor]

Took me a while to find it, but this is the only instance where I mention me having half MP in the whole thread.



Of course, to put it in context. I was arguing that busting out a bunch of nukes to clear your MP before a convert was a bad idea. I think anyone can attest to spamming nukes as a bad idea. Good way to get yourself some unwanted hate right before dropping your HP to single didgits and throwing out some cure 4s...

I still fail to see how that equals 20 minutes though. If you keep basing arguments off of things that aren't really there, things are gonna keep going down hill.

You can't just take one quote and assume that's the one I'm talking about. There's several in the whole thread that makes me believe what you ment.

Still, mind mentioning when you DO convert then? Because if you convert with MP left, that's wasted MP. And if you don't convert at 10 min, and MP past 10 min is wasted, as you could get another free MP pool.

 

[Bigboy]

You can't just take one quote and assume that's the one I'm talking about. There's several in the whole thread that makes me believe what you ment.

Still, mind mentioning when you DO convert then? Because if you convert with MP left, that's wasted MP. And if you don't convert at 10 min, and MP past 10 min is wasted, as you could get another free MP pool.

I convert anywhere from the 10 minute mark all the way out to .... never. It totally depends on the situation and PT. Sometimes I get such rediculous Aspirs and only ever have to refresh myself and haste melees. It depends what's going on. I could be MBing alot and hasting a refreshing a bunch of people too, and then I'll likely be right on the timer. It could be a mediocre PT where I have maybe 200MP left but there have been links previously and hate is a little unstable, so I'll hold off till the fighting is over and I know its safe, and use the MP to cure people up after the fight. Like I said, totally dependent on the situation. Rarely does free-nuking that MP away seem like the best thing to do, although sometimes I'll have everyone switch target and let me finish it off (if it is low and we have a link.)

Just because the timer's at 0:00 doesn't mean it's time to use it, that is all I ever said in reguards to that, and you can go back and actually look for yourself (like I told you to do earlier) to find a quote you feel prooves otherwise.

 

[Uzor]

Just because the timer's at 0:00 doesn't mean it's time to use it, that is all I ever said in reguards to that, and you can go back and actually look for yourself (like I told you to do earlier) to find a quote you feel prooves otherwise.

But it is. a good RDM will learn within 30 min exactly how much they can cast per fight to make their MP run out by the time Convert is ready without ever having a great urge of MP.

I'm not saying you should have 300 MP left by the time Convert is ready and just go "Oh well, time to nuke the rest of the MP". I'm saying it should be smooth all the way down from full MP down to under 100 by the time Convert is ready.

 

[Alyada]

Holy cow. E-peen! AND LOTS OF IT.

I must've died & gone to heaven.

Locked per OP request. If you guys still want to debate, the BC works wonders.