the most overdone topic returns!

I think the thing is that a rdm is invited for refresh and dispel. Thats why you are part of the holy trinity, thats why you get bothered when yu're not seeking and have to anon.

If a rdm was stripped of refresh he would get less invites than a summoner, Period. I'm not saying its the only thing you do, but I'm saying its the only reason you get invites like you do.

Take that how you will.
 
To Darkdominion:
I really don't care how much your nukes are worth, i'd refresh another blm who didn't bitch like you anyday before i'd refresh a selfish rude beggar (such as yourself at that time and place.)

Okay, rant done.

To people who think i wasn't doing my job:
I refreshed everyone as often as i could. However tell me this... When the puller (the drk in that party) pulls a mob during my refresh cycle, what's going to come first? blm refresh, or a good blind/paralyze/slow? Darkdominion made it his point to "remind" me whenever he wanted refresh (aka. whenever it wore off.) It quit after a while, when i told him i'm on it. I didn't even see him helping cure the pld when the whm was low mp... and he thinks i have to do what he wants snappy when he says it? It doesn't seem right.

On another note... I apologized (and got responses saying they'd do similar) to everyone in the party except you. You were the only person who i could plan on still bitching about it. Also ask any other rdm, we'd rather have a good fun exp party than a good exp crappy people party, and it takes one person to ruin the party.

I did my fair share of bitching at you though in-party, and that's the only thing i regret. It soured the mood, and helped nobody. For that, i apologize. However, i'd like to see any rdm take your words without getting irate at you.

I refreshed the whm and pld always, and refreshed both you blms when you were low mp. I even made sure the drk always had mp (he didn't use it much though...)

Point on point...

:arrow: You said "Refresh and enfeeble. In that order of priority. This particular rdm actually said if i wanted refresh i should get a bard"
:arrow: I said, and i remember saying "this party is too mp-intensive, a brd would be better." Other people on the board said i was right on that.
:arrow: The whm didn't once use a yag drink... not when i was partied with you. Maybe later when you were 5-person-partying, but not on my watch.
:arrow: I know better than to go around poking mobs when i have low mp, and voila, when i'm backup-curing the tank, enfeebling, and refreshing 5 people, what happens? low mp. No rdm's refresh will stretch that far on themselves when they're doing all that, and neither of the blms helped there.

I feel sorry for dakko... he's been taught to just follow what people want, and he's doing a perfect job. yeah right... i'd like to see that mindset work when he's doing anything different than exping.

Ask any other rdm if they like to do nothing but refresh enfeeb and rest, you'll get a good NO. We play rdm for the dynamics, you play blm for the high damage, and i never told you how to play your job.

No offense, but i think you made yourself the ass. Maybe next time we party, it'll be different
 
No offense to dakko in the post above, i don't really know the guy
 
Also you pointed out the fact you were still gettign chains? What about downtime? probably a lot.
 
Sorry for any unclairity in my post above, I'm tired and irritable (family kept me up late) and had a rough day. However, i won't let anyone think it's entirely my fault for what happened. We had a personality conflict, and i'd rather heal the would than have an enemy for a stupid reason.
 
BLM posting about getting refreshed? If a taru BLM runs out of MB during a chain, he has issues. And a party with 2 BLM, they should need even less refresh. You shouldn't be complaining about not getting refreshed. I assume it is Reishu you are talking about about, and I have had the pleasure to party with her twice, and hopefully again in the future. She is a good RDM. Her enfeebles stick basically every time, refreshes when it is needed, heals when needed, and is all around a great player.

Refreshing 6 people is a hard task to do, especially when she has other jobs to do. Enfeebling is a main part of the job no matter what way you look at it. A WHM is busy curing the puller who usually takes a hit or two on the way back. A BLM should be rasping, frosting, whatever it is they do. At that point, the RDM is casting dia, paralyze, slow, and your other basic enfeebles, which in the end, conserves more MP that a refresh will ever give you. The refresh cycle consists of the RDM -> PLD if there is one -> WHM. That is the main cycle. A BLM shouldn't need refresh if doing their job. Nuke -> Rest -> Nuke -> Rest. The only BLM that needs a refresh is a chain nuker. Yes, most of the time you will get refreshed, but case in point, you shouldn't need it during a chain to 5. I would say a DRK needs a refresh before a BLM ever will because those absorb spells help out everyone, even the BLM with Absorb-Int. Before complaining about a RDM not doing her job, get your priorities straight and stop nuking like crazy.
 
Anttaru said:
Refresh is something that i keep up for the sake of the PT's progress. And at the same time (a disturbing secondary) to keep from hearing <Refresh> <please>

Dear god there's nothing more grating than hearing someone bark that out the very second their Refresh drops. I'm well aware of the situation and most likely either recasting a debuff on the mob or waiting for the spell to come back up. There was one PT where the BLM did this every single time his Refresh dropped, to the point where I dropped him from the Refresh cycle altogether and told him to sit his ass down and stop being a prick. His wanting Refreshed before everyone else and casting Ancient magic every fight so he could top his best numbers didn't help any.

It's true the only reason RDMs get invites is Refresh. Any RDM who remembers life pre-Refresh realizes this. But as Anttaru pointed out, we're capable of much more when the shit hits the fan. Our Sleep II, Stoneskin, Phalanx and Blink are everyone's friend in bad situations.
 
Lanien said:
BLM posting about getting refreshed? If a taru BLM runs out of MB during a chain, he has issues.

he doesnt run out of MP during a chain, but in the parties of which he speaks (ive been at his place durinm many of them) it doesnt matter what chain they're on, there normaly isnt any downtime. the best party isnt "Get chain 5, rest for 5 minutes, then start again." those are actualy bad parties. It doesnt matter if your not getting chain 5, you keep killing at a steady pace untill somthing stops it (link, aggro, Washroom break, ect).

and he's not saying rdms job is ONLY to refresh. But, if they didnt have the spell, they'd be just as wanted as dragoons (not an insult to dragoons, just useing the example.)
 
For the record, i did keep him consistently refreshed after he said he'd like it (cures before refreshes, but still). What irked me most is the fact that he didn't care about me, he cared about how he could use me. After i said i'd try to find my replacement, since i had stuff to do i used the phrase
"It shouldn't be hard to replace me, since i'm just a rdm."
and he brought up the whole subject again. He rubbed me the wrong way, restated the fact that he didn't care anything about me except to use me, and i up and left.

I apologized to each member of the party (except him to avoid a /tell argument) and all of them pretty much said they're okay with it. Now yes, i do have Refresh (what rdm doesn't? lol) but i prefer my play to be in a game of caring. When that's taken away from me, and i'm just another way for someone to use me, I will never stand for that.

This game shouldn't be a job. Any person who tells me it is needs to straighten out their priorities.
 
I'm glad I don't have to deal with the magery in a party. I just pull when they all have their mp to sufficient levels, and if we get good chains then I guess the mages are fine.

My biggest concern tends to be the tank, melee, and if the mages are casting what they are supposed to so we get through the fight.

I tend to understand only two things about mages:

1. Red Mages should debuff, Black Mages should nuke, White Mages should heal. I see none of that... big problem.

2. I don't know your timers or your mp costs. I will not assume to know by telling you what to do.

I really don't think anyone should be directing a Red Mage to cast Refresh unless they know for a fact that the timer is up and the RDM has MP. Also, if the RD is resting they may be waiting a tick or two to cast.

Same thing with people who tell a tank to voke when he just did twenty seconds ago.
 
Reishu said:
To Darkdominion:
I really don't care how much your nukes are worth, i'd refresh another blm who didn't bitch like you anyday before i'd refresh a selfish rude beggar (such as yourself at that time and place.)

Okay, rant done.

To people who think i wasn't doing my job:
I refreshed everyone as often as i could. However tell me this... When the puller (the drk in that party) pulls a mob during my refresh cycle, what's going to come first? blm refresh, or a good blind/paralyze/slow? Darkdominion made it his point to "remind" me whenever he wanted refresh (aka. whenever it wore off.) It quit after a while, when i told him i'm on it. I didn't even see him helping cure the pld when the whm was low mp... and he thinks i have to do what he wants snappy when he says it? It doesn't seem right.

On another note... I apologized (and got responses saying they'd do similar) to everyone in the party except you. You were the only person who i could plan on still bitching about it. Also ask any other rdm, we'd rather have a good fun exp party than a good exp crappy people party, and it takes one person to ruin the party.

I did my fair share of bitching at you though in-party, and that's the only thing i regret. It soured the mood, and helped nobody. For that, i apologize. However, i'd like to see any rdm take your words without getting irate at you.

I refreshed the whm and pld always, and refreshed both you blms when you were low mp. I even made sure the drk always had mp (he didn't use it much though...)

Point on point...

:arrow: You said "Refresh and enfeeble. In that order of priority. This particular rdm actually said if i wanted refresh i should get a bard"
:arrow: I said, and i remember saying "this party is too mp-intensive, a brd would be better." Other people on the board said i was right on that.
:arrow: The whm didn't once use a yag drink... not when i was partied with you. Maybe later when you were 5-person-partying, but not on my watch.
:arrow: I know better than to go around poking mobs when i have low mp, and voila, when i'm backup-curing the tank, enfeebling, and refreshing 5 people, what happens? low mp. No rdm's refresh will stretch that far on themselves when they're doing all that, and neither of the blms helped there.

I feel sorry for dakko... he's been taught to just follow what people want, and he's doing a perfect job. yeah right... i'd like to see that mindset work when he's doing anything different than exping.

Ask any other rdm if they like to do nothing but refresh enfeeb and rest, you'll get a good NO. We play rdm for the dynamics, you play blm for the high damage, and i never told you how to play your job.

No offense, but i think you made yourself the ass. Maybe next time we party, it'll be different

you DID say if i wanted refresh i should get a bard, i have a SS of it if you want me to post it.

this flame was not solely at you i believe i opened up by saying that it was a high number of rdm's out of my last few parties. i also tried to respect your anonymity by not saying your name or any of the other rdm's. This topic is not called "Reishu you suck at rdm" it's a venting of frustration at bad rdms in general who are very common it seems

The white mage was using yag drinks half the time and that argues it's own case. And yes, he was. wanna ask the other blm? maybe the drk? he asked my if yag drinks stacked with refresh and when i said no he asked why the whm was using yag drinks when we had a rdm... this led to the obvious answer

when you set yourself to it you were keeping refresh on fine and your mp wasn't as bad as all that till you tried to nuke.

The white mage most definately did not need back up healing, he needed more refresh.

I never at any point ran out of mp, i simply stop nuking before it gets that far thus scrificing the chains number for continuity, i can manage my mp and i CAN function without refresh as noted by the fact we did just as well without you. when we have a red mage we shouldn't have to.

Rdm are not easy to replace and nobody likes being a replacement, 9/10 times people tend to disband before you get there. you said you asked rdms if they wanted to replace you in a manaburn. let me clarify the definition of manaburn. manaburn = exp out the ears or death.

I only reminded you when i had gone 3 or 4 fights without or when the other blm was complaining about you. He had quite the 4 screens full of "this rdm sucks" to send to me. He told me he was asking the leader to replace you. chain 4, 6 people then chain 4, 5 people.... the drk was laughing about how we didn't need you at all (probably because he couldn't find another rdm anyways)

Also in the end you gave us a 30 minute warning then just up and left. that pushed me over the edge to post this. no 30 minutes, just disband and warp scroll.


Keep dakko out of this, Dakko doesn't need your pity, he kept his refresh and enfeebles together admirably, he knows how to play the job as efficiently and effectively as possibly for the betterment of exp.

And lanien, when all is said and done a good red mage will be able to land those enfeebles AND keep refresh up on 6 people, all black mages who have a positive brain cell count start with the party-dependant corresponding burn-choke-shock or rasp-frost-drown. If i started with blizzard 3 on the pull back i'd be dead. i wasn't posting about not being refreshed i was complaining most rdms seem to be bad at doing what they're there to do. you obviously are not a black mage. i generally only use 1/3 or up to 1/2 of my mp a battle (It varies depending on mob proximity/pull time) by the time a puller gets back i'm nearly full again. It's when it's 8 or 9 battles in a row the 25 mp from full adds up. and you can ask any puller i've had i never even needed to be ASKED to cure the guy coming back from the pull if his hp is in a color other than white. The whm just regen'd the puller and cured the tank anyways. good red mages can still enfeeble on refreshs recast downtime. i mean... refresh>enfeeble>refresh>enfeeble>refresh>enfeeble. i just get pissed off when before refresh number 4 people put Cast AeroIII>enfeeble>cast some other elemental magic>enfeeble then go "Oh look, the first persons refresh wore!" can you spot the 2 mistakes there? note that the magic burst isn't even within the time span there. A melee hardly has any notice of the red mages actions other than the enfeebles and dispels (don't pretend that you do) unless they play a mage job in equal or greater amounts than the melee job. this can be a focal point of attention for any mage when exp is dragging. and FYI if the rdm has half-decent gear and capped enfeebling skill resistance rate is the same with the exception of taru for black magics and elvaan for whites.

Next time when i make a post i would ask we not bring names into it, how do you know i was even talking about you? make the same un-naming kind of reply rebuking all points from the hypothetical view point. i don't hold personal grudges just general frustrations. except to the outstanding people like colbwa and roofie.

and mara, links aren't downtime, their extensions of the chain! the quick easy way to get chain 6!

I have no real intentions of replying or even view this topic henceforth, so say as you will but don't waste your breath trying to provoke me into an argument, everything i've said above is fact. cold, hard and indisputable. especially the contents of my note to mara. and lan, a drg in the party implies it's not a high caster quantity party by basis of the fact you are there, your experiences with her in parties are therefore invalid as submissible observation.

now i need some ice for my fingers, beer for my brain and level 71 thank you very much for your time.
 
Look we obviously got off on the wrong foot, and i don't like that at all. I almost think it would have been better that i left this thread alone, since all it seems to be doing is giving you a reason to be angry.

I pride myself on doing a good job, and i'm sorry you experienced an emotionally off day of mine. I suggest you let me make it up to you, and i'll put it under the rug whether you do or not. Party?
 
Reishu said:
Look we obviously got off on the wrong foot, and i don't like that at all. I almost think it would have been better that i left this thread alone, since all it seems to be doing is giving you a reason to be angry.

I pride myself on doing a good job, and i'm sorry you experienced an emotionally off day of mine. I suggest you let me make it up to you, and i'll put it under the rug whether you do or not. Party?

I like your moxie kid.
 
So because I'm a Dragoon, I can't comment on her abilities as a Red Mages? Fuck you dude. You know what I say? You're a bad BLM for running out of MP so quick. There, I said it. In a part where she is refreshing 6 people, step in fucking line and you will get your refresh. You are not the most important. Shut your mouth, sit on your taru ass between nukes, and the fuck on with your day. End of story. How fucking dare you comment on my job class and whether or not that determines my understanding of how a job works. I haven't played this game for this long to not know how a RDM, BLM, or any other fucking job works. If you haven't noticed, there is a lot more to this game than partying. There are missions where I've seen alliances fail because they stretched the RDM too thin. That's the same fucking idea with parties. You can't expect the world if you can't create the right setup. At least Reishu had the balls to say "Hey, I might not be the best for this job." You just have to come on here and revive the stupidest flame ever just because you're some little black mage who doesn't get his refresh in time, when case in point, you don't need one to begin with. If you seriously don't know how to keep you mp in line by now, quit, sell your character to gilsellers, and go play WoW. They need more people like you.
 
I wouldn't want to be a RDM in a party with all 6 people needing refresh. A bard would really be a better choice for that party O.o; Tis fact.
 
Whoa Lanien, that was uncalled for...

Darkdominion is right about the way he manages MP, and it really is a good way to do exp partying. Least downtime possible is a good thing. Lanien, you are right though... you shouldn't judge a class until you've played it. I've seen a lot of arguments just because of stupid stereotypes, and i'm glad I try to stay out of those. Yeah, I might not be the perfect red mage, but at least I try to make this game just a game.

Darkdominion, fyi, when i left that party, I was glad I did. I was pretty hot-headed at that time, just because of that little argument, and that is the only reason. Now that i've thought about why you say what you do Dark, I agree with you, and i'd say the same thing for the same reasons. I just wouldn't demand it of people, because i know demands tend to make irritable people. I'd do it to respect myself as a person who does everything possible for her friends.

Also, some facts were mixed up... it was not quite 6 people needing refresh (the DRK didn't use mp much). Also about the WHM using yagudo drinks, i have no idea why he would, since i did try to keep Refresh on him. Maybe he had synthed too many to AH? I don't know.

As for me calling that party a manaburn party, i don't care what the exp is, but when mp is being used up whenever possible (as it should), it kind of needs Refresh. 5-6 people needing Refresh = manaburn to me. I'm not too fond of the idea of being a Refresh whore (who is?), but for the sake of downtime, it's needed.

Dark, what's your answer... I invited you to party, a yes or no would be nice.
 
Mistaya said:
I wouldn't want to be a RDM in a party with all 6 people needing refresh. A bard would really be a better choice for that party O.o; Tis fact.

Oh sure, gather together for Ballad 1 and 2, including the puller lol.

Casting refresh at the right time in a PT with 6 magic users would make for a more prouductive session.

As for RDM being invited for Refresh as a primary. What about RDMs Dispel, and how it has a 5 second recast in comparrison to other debuff methods ? Subbing a RDM dosn't give a job the RDM's enfeebling magic skill caps either.

When in PT's we shouldn't look at ourselves as individuals. What RDM brings to the team is efficiency towards MP, and to make the Mob as retarded as they can possibly be.

As for multiple links a RDM/BLM can cast Sleepaga and have the mobs remain sleeping long after the spell is ready to be casted.

Some say RDM is not the "Jack of all trades". We sure as hell ain't the Ace of all trades either. So when things go wrong, you gotta understand that a Refresh cycle can break because the RDM may not find it to be a wise choice when they have to cast heals, or convert induring a death defying battle when things really start to go wrong.

-When a RDM holds a mob link, it's best the tank does not provoke the linked mob cause it will cost the PT MP. Even without the Warlocks Tabard, RDM's naturally are very resistant to inturruptions when casting.

-RDM has the highest enhancing. ( I don't know if that means RDMs Protect and Shells are any better) Best Stoneskin and Phalanx. Subbing RDM and doing this just ain't the same.
 
Mistaya said:
I think the thing is that a rdm is invited for refresh and dispel. Thats why you are part of the holy trinity, thats why you get bothered when yu're not seeking and have to anon.

If a rdm was stripped of refresh he would get less invites than a summoner, Period. I'm not saying its the only thing you do, but I'm saying its the only reason you get invites like you do.

Take that how you will.

This is mostlikely true, before level 41 Being a RDM was all about trying to prove you can be useful to a Party.

Now 1st thing they will look for in a RDM is Refresh. But at the same time a party with well rounded knowlege would not want a RDM to be a Refresh whore either.
 
Anttaru said:
What RDM brings to the team is efficiency towards MP, and to make the Mob as retarded as they can possibly be.

That made me laugh :lol:


And cheers to Reishu, thats what I call good form!
 
Uncalled for? He came right and said my opinion has no point. Well as much as he can say I am not allowed to comment on a Red Mages duties, unless he has a level 70 RDM, then he needs to STFU himself. I know how the job is played, so for someone to blatently disregard my opinion is going to hear about it. It's complete bullshit to tell me that I have no idea how it works. As I said before, I didn't spend 67 levels with this job, over 100+ levels with other jobs, and 2 previous characters to not know what the hell every job can do. (except Summoner, I rarely party with Summoners, let alone with one that is allowed to use their arsenal to its fullest capabilities.)
 
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