The Price of Honesty.

Zephayra

Zephayra

On a pale horse
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Zephayra
Hello all. I would like to share a rather long story with you all which has ruined my hopes for all of mankind. I was raised to be an honest person. Honesty is something supposedly valued, but god damn, being honest will cost you an arm and a leg.

On thursday, while parking for class, I accidently hit someone's car. I hit them at 1 kmh (I dont know the conversion for this in mph because I'm Canadian, sorry!) because I am a very slow parker. I felt my car bump against the corner of a 2005 Toyoto Matrix . As soon as I felt the friction, I immediately braked, put my car in park, and assessed the damage. There were no dents in the car, but a few scratches on the corner of the driver's side bumper.

Unfortunately for me, my mother raised me to be an honest person. I parked my car and began to look for my insurance policy so I could write a note to this person. Many people since then told me that I should have just left, but I was worried about all the witnesses that saw me. The worst part was I hit the car belonging to the secretary of the Native Studies Department. Someone that had witnessed the accident had come down from the building to tell me that the owner was on their way down. I explained that it was 100% my fault and I had been currently writing my apology note along with my information.

When the owner and I met, I apologized over and over and over. She said, accidents happen, and she thanked me for sticking around, for most people wouldn't. The accident was 100% my fault, and I told her I would pay for the scratches to be fixed. There were no dents in the bumper, and nothing on the car had fallen off. I had pretty much scrapped her car with the plastic front end of my car. My car also sports scratches, but I am a student and therefore, too cheap to fix my own car. She tells me that she'll get me a quote, and I can just pay for it. I agree, thinking that a paint and touch up would hopefully cost me under 200 dollars.

On friday, she sends me an email saying she has the quote and when I have a few minutes, to come to her office and pick it up. Today,I decided to get this over with, and just go in and get the quote. Before she handed me the quote, she told me I wasn't going to like it. She was right. I lied and said I was expecting it to be higher, since it was coming from a dealership. Rookie mistake right there. I asked her when she wanted to get her car fixed; she said as soon as possible. She said I would have to go into the delaership and pay for it before any work would be done. The quoted total was $553.68

I take the quote home and look at it. I scratched her car. This is what the dealership has listed on the quote:

Refinish Rear Bumper Cover: 2.2 Labor Units
Remove/Install Rear Bumper Cover 1.5

Okay, I can see that being done. Here comes the WTF.

Remove/Replace Left Rear Bumper Support $44.30
Remove/Replace Left Rear -MUDGUARD!!!!- $26.00 (They marked this as a "judgement item")
Remove/Replace Clip and Retainer Kit - $15.00 (Another judgement item)
Remove/Replace L Rear bumper seal - $34.10
Addtional csots:
Shop materials : $10.00
Hadardous Waste Removal : $6.00
Flex Additibr $12.00
Clear Coat 0.9 Labor Units
Paint/Material $89.90

Total Taxable Labor: $248.40 with tax $283.17
Total Taxable Parts: $119.40 with tax $136.11

Now, if I really caused that much damage, I'd be willing to pay. I am going to the dealership tomorrow to ask about these charges, especially the judgement item. I am also requesting that I am refunded any money if the actual cost is less. But the charges don't stop there. If you add those two numbers together, you only get $419.28.

On page two of the quote it says
ADDITIONAL COSTS
Taxable costs: $117.90 plus tax $134.40
There is NO explanation for this cost. 134.40 dollars for NOTHING. I am not paying all this money unless I get an explanation for why there is an additional cost of such a substantial amount, and how the scratches I caused had anything to do with the MUDGUARD, as well as how three or four scrtaches will result in almost 100 dollars worth of paint. The problem is, I am a girl, and many mechanics/body shop mechanics/ any man working in the car industry will screw me over because they assume I'm a stupid girl who knows nothing about cars. My brother is coming with me as support.

Anyways, I want to know QCDN, tell me how you guys have also been screwed for being an honest fucking person.
 
I think you're doing the right thing by going to the dealership, to question the quote. If they are suggesting that other work be done, that was not caused by the simple scratches, then you are not responsible for that, and the owner of the vehicle should be able to agree to this.

I really hope that you are returned with honesty when you talk to the dealership, because that quote seems to be including other things which could be repaired, but are not a result of the scratches that your vehicle caused.

Hope things clear up for you.
 
The thing with dealerships is that they'll spare no expense to ensure the car looks the way it did when it left the dealership, or as close to that status as possible.

They could get away with stripping just one corner of the bumper and painting over it. But then the paint surfaces would be uneven and might look bad in the right light at the right angle. Seems stupid, but it's possible. So to avoid this, they'll strip the entire bumper and repaint the whole damn thing so it's a flush clean job with no visible marks.

Clips and seals and stuff - depending on the car (I've never worked on a Matrix) it may be necessary to replace these for safety's sake. While the current clips and seals are undoubtedly in top-notch condition, they may get damaged or lose their structural integrity when they're removed to do the repairs. It is very common for a shop to replace (rather than reuse) seals.

If you went to a shop other than the dealership, you can expect the bill to be lower. But then there's less guarantee of a quality job, and unless you know the shop has good people in it, there's the chance that the alternate shop will be packed with scammers who will go to equal lengths to separate you from your money.

You're already in a bad position because you are female. If you know any man who's mechanically savvy, have them come with you when you question the shop about their prices. I don't mean to be sexist but this is coming straight from personal experience - my woman has been lured into many unnecessary mechanical expenses (before I met her) because they told her "you need to do this".

I would suggest you continue to work with the dealership, regardless. You're handling things very well thus far, and would do well to ask them about the seemingly unnecessary expenses. But if you can, bring a guy with you. Dudes who have never met tend to get along pretty well when talking about cars.
 
Heres what i can suggest, go to a private Body Shop and get a quote from them, not to be racist (And im hispanic) but if you can find a hispanic guy, even better. They will more than likely give you a better price, if you and the owner of the matrix have some time, you can probably get a Non Manufacturer's Original, meaning the identical part, just not made by toyota, which takes a crapload off the price. Dealerships can be the safest way to go, but i can assure you without a doubt it will give you the most expensive price. You can look online, even Ebay and order the part for much cheaper, just a suggestion you may be able to look into. Other than that i can say im sorry this happened, it does suck.

Edit: It would not be beyond a dealership to charge you as if they were giving you a Toyota original part, when in reality they are giving you a NMO, its possible all it needs is touch of paint, and flattening of the bumper, that would make it look as good as new, but at the dealership they will take every penny they can :/ Good luck
 
Well, I'm taking my brother in with me tomorrow. When I called him up and told him about the quote, he was furious. He thinks that both the owner and I are being screwed over because we're females. My brother isn't a certified mechanic, but he did a lot of auto shop during school, and even did projects after school, since my dad is a regular Mr.Fix-It-Yourself. My dad and my brother built his truck, and they fix up and build derby cars every year just for the sake of smashing them back into piles of scrape yard material. Either way, he know more about cars than me, and he's a dude, so it all works out. Half the boyfriends I've had in the past have known nothing about cars. From now on, I'm going to seek auto experts.

If something is a safety issue, then by all means I'll pay for it. But my 1998 Lumina wasn't going fast enough to cause 500 dollars worth of damage. I wish I could convince the owner to take it to another shop, but she seemed hell bent on taking it there, since when I asked for quotes, she gave me only one, and has already gave the dealership the go ahead, as soon as I pay.
 
Bumpers are a touchy area, the slightest impact can comprimise their integrity.

if they are removing the bumper and all that, I'm assuming they are looking for damage.

It is true you can get some beaner to toss some paint over it, and maybe even give it a good match, but I wouldn't be too happy about that as the owner.

I think you should look at it from a person who worked for a new car, and not from the point of view of a college student with a 500$ bucket.

Imagine you got a new dress, and the cleaners put a hole in it, then they put a patch over it so the hole wouldn't be there. Now, you don't have a hole, but there is evidence the hole was there, and you would expect a new dress probably, and you should be entitled to one.
 
Airou said:
Heres what i can suggest, go to a private Body Shop and get a quote from them, not to be racist (And im hispanic) but if you can find a hispanic guy, even better.
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I gotta agree with this, partially. I've never dealt with Hispanic mechanics but I could expect a good price from them. or any European-born mechanic who immigrated; they seem to be raised with a much weaker desire for capitalism and will be more inclined to do a good job for a price they feel is suitable.

That's just my opinion, my dad is Croatian-born so I know many Italian/Croatian/Serbian families in my region. Many of them are labourers and they do great work for good prices, and even better prices if you know them personally (or buy them liquor).

East Indian folks, I'm sorry to say, are the worst (best?) salespeople. They are incredibly good at the job, and they'll push the envelope as far as they can without losing the sale. I used to work at Radio Shack, and the Persian guy there... man. His sales/hr was consistantly the best of everyone in the store, and pretty steadily in the top 25 of our district (which I think covered about 250 salespeople). He'd get the warranty sales, he'd get the impulse sales, he'd get the accessories, and yet most of his customers loved him.
 
CmdrFly said:
I used to work at Radio Shack, and the Persian guy there... man. His sales/hr was consistantly the best of everyone in the store, and pretty steadily in the top 25 of our district (which I think covered about 250 salespeople). He'd get the warranty sales, he'd get the impulse sales, he'd get the accessories, and yet most of his customers loved him.
Click to expand...

Top 25 sucks, it's all about top 3, with a 5 hit rate.
 
I let her pick the place to fix her car, so I don't know why who does it would be an issue with the owner.

My beef is when we both looked at the car, we saw no dents, no mudguard hanging by a thread, no crack in the bumper, etc. All that was there was 3 or 4 scratches. I know paint and touch up is rather expensive, especially since it has to be just right, or it won't look right at all. However, I have a big problem with me having to pay for a mudguard which didn't even get touched in the bang up, and another $134 dollar charge which has no break down or explanation on it. There are three charges on the bill
1) total cost and taxes for parts. I'm fine with that
2) total cost and taxes for labor. I'm fine with this as well, because I know that labor in the auto industry is very expensive
3) Additional costs: There is nothing explaning why there is additional charges. No work has been done on the car, and thus nothing else has been broken or needed to be replaced. They already listed all the costs for material and labor, and this is the charge that I am mainly dispusting tomorrow. I already told my brother that I'd be willing to pay for everything else, just to get this over with and done with.
 
No it's completely worth your time to question the shop's extra charges. Good chance they'll reduce em, or at the very least explain wtf they are.

Er by the way, meant to say this in my first post, 1km = 1.6 miles.
 
If the owner is being hard headed, and the dealerships wont give you a reasonable explanation, then heres one option (The asshole option). I dont know how it is in canada, but here in the states, atleast in florida, if both parties in an accident leave the scene, neither one is liable, you cant pin point blame. Atleast here, if you both leave, thats it done with you cant place blame and if the person at fault feels like being an ass they can legally not pay a dime for your car. Thats always an option, but i would try to reason with her to get multiple quotes.

Zephayra said:
He thinks that both the owner and I are being screwed over because we're females.
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That is probably true...
 
I went over the quote again, and it seems that the additional costs are actually all the paint and shop material. However, I'm still going to ask why I have to pay for a mudguard, since I agreed to pay for the scratches and not any additional parts.

Edit: Thank you all for your comments and suggestions

I more or less posted this because I'm angry that I'm being taken advantage of for being a nice person. I was honest, stuck around for the owner, and agreed to pay for the scratches. All my friends and even my family have told me that I should have driven off, but I felt bad that I had put a few scratches in a relatively new car. I wish I could have been a dishonest person and driven off, but instead, even though I agreed to pay for the paint and touch up, I have to pay for additional parts that were not part of the agreement. This was what I was sort of going after.
 
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Go all Michael Jackson on the car and make it worth your while.

But honestly if I nudged something expensive and didn't hurt it I would have just left.
 
You are SUPPOSED to stay at the scene of an accident. It is part of the agreement you make for recieving the PRIVLEDGE to drive.

You are liable for making her car whole again, and if that means mudgaurds, then you're paying for mudgards. If additional damage is uncovered to the integrity of the bumper, you are resposible for that too.

The owner doesn't need to comprimise anything as they were not at fault, you were.

They aren't being assholes if they decide to use this quote and not some beaner who works the back of his garage.
 
you're not really being punished. you hit a car and you have to pay for it....

im glad you were nice and found out the owner, most people wouldnt.. but then for t hem.. karmas a bitch.. ;)
 
You're supposed to, but in parking lots, many people don't, because most insurance polices don't cover accidents that happen in parking lots (or so I've been told, I don't know for sure).

I agree, I am liable for the damage I caused. My car didn't hit her mudguards. Why, when I said I'd pay for the scratches to a bumper, am I paying for damage to a mudguard that I did not damage?
 
you're not really being punished. you hit a car and you have to pay for it....
Click to expand...

I never said I was being punished. I AGREED to pay for SCRATCHES since we both assesed the damage. If I had hit her hard enough to ruin her mudguard, which is infront of her bumper and not in the same location as her bumper, then my car would have a huge ass dent in it, and so would hers. When someone tells you that they're going to get you a quote for the damage YOU did, you don't exactly expect to be in charge of taking care of parts that weren't part of the agreement, and you weren't the cause of.
 
They're not punishing you because you were honest, they're punishing you because it's a new car. Even simple fixes ain't cheap, particularly when you're talking about bodywork. The mudflaps are something you should contest, but looking at the price of em it ain't gonna make a huge difference on the final bill.

Seems odd they'd lump paint and such under "taxable expenses" or whatnot instead of under "shop materials".
 
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