The Purpose of Sea Torques

[Jojojo]

So I was psyched about getting my Temperance Torque, because I thought that more axe skill meant more base damage. I got this idea from my monk experience, where hand-to-hand base damage was affected by hand-to-hand skill...but according to Wiki, axe skill doesn't work that way.

Can someone tell me then what is the appeal of the sea torques? If base damage is not affected by axe skill, then we're looking at 6.3 ACC and 7 attack, which is worse than Chiv Chain in my opinion.

 

[Lenneth]

then we're looking at 6.3 ACC and 7 attack, which is worse than Chiv Chain in my opinion.

How do you figure?...

 

[Vilurum]

Better acc than Chiv Chain. 6.3 > 5, whether that 6.3 ends up being rounded to 6 or 7.

Store TP +1 is almost always meaningless just because it's so small, though in a few cases it can make the difference of how many attack rounds it takes to hit 100%. Do the math out, but you'll probably find it won't make a difference.

7 attack vs. 3 STR is more arguable for WS (for TPing, you want the attack), and that mostly has to do with if that 3 STR gets you to a new fSTR or WSC tier or not. Personally I'd lean towards 7 attack anyway, not to mention the 1.3 acc superiority never hurts.

Is it an omgmassive game-breaking difference? No, but it is generally still better - and most gear upgrades in this game come in the form of individually only being a little better than the alternatives, but add them up for more impressive results.

Also bear in mind that some torques *really* get a good deal. For example, DRKs and SAMs not only get the scythe/GKT skill benefits with the Justice Torque, but also get 5 STR as well (and they're 2-handers on top of that, which means they get more attack for that 5 STR). Similarly, the DEX on the Love Torque (dagger and polearm) is quite appealing to THFs. Yeah, your Temperance Torque has lolCHR, but hey - it can double as charm equipment for a BST. Would it be better if all the torques had STR instead of each having a different stat? Probably, but life is hard.

 

[Jojojo]

How do you figure?...

Against Greater Colibri, 7 attack will increase PDIF by roughly 0.025. This amounts to a 2.5% increase in damage.

3 STR, however, might bump you up a tier in FSTR2, as Vil said. This will increase your damage by 1*PDIF, which on my monk is about 1.5 on average. With my STR against colibris, that's a 1.75% damage increase. Oops.

I guess one can't just eyeball these things. Disregard this please.

 

[Xalioniaf]

If one person cycles all of them within 10 seconds, it'll remove Absolute Virtue's regen.

 

[pchan]

7 attack and 6 accuracy, if not the best thing you can put in this slot it's pretty close. "Only" lose 4 accuracy from PCC. Chilvarous chain is crap compared to this.

 

[Tyrath]

Unless of course you're sam or drk, then you get 7 attack, 6 acc, AND 5 str.

Justice Torque = winnar

 

[Jojojo]

7 attack and 6 accuracy, if not the best thing you can put in this slot it's pretty close. "Only" lose 4 accuracy from PCC. Chilvarous chain is crap compared to this.

That reminds me, I forgot to compare it to PCC.

You get a 2.5% damage boost from the torque's attack bonus alone. Accuracywise, PCC will give you 4 acc more than the torque, which is +2% hit rate. This is equivalent to a 2% damage boost, since you're hitting an extra two times out of a hundred. So, the torque seems to win by .5%. Although, that added hit rate from PCC makes you get to 100% TP faster, so I bet it evens out.

I guess it all boils down to whether you want to spend 50-100 hours in sea for a +.5% damage boost and 2M gil.

 

[Bajaratt]

That reminds me, I forgot to compare it to PCC.

You get a 2.5% damage boost from the torque's attack bonus alone. Accuracywise, PCC will give you 4 acc more than the torque, which is +2% hit rate. This is equivalent to a 2% damage boost, since you're hitting an extra two times out of a hundred. So, the torque seems to win by .5%. Although, that added hit rate from PCC makes you get to 100% TP faster, so I bet it evens out.

I guess it all boils down to whether you want to spend 50-100 hours in sea for a +.5% damage boost and 2M gil.

4 accuracy is a 2% boost for your total accuracy? Maybe for a level 60, but at 75, you should have over 250 accuracy from your skill alone; so PCC would help even less.

 

[Skaw]

4 accuracy is a 2% boost for your total accuracy? Maybe for a level 60, but at 75, you should have over 250 accuracy from your skill alone; so PCC would help even less.

Well, to be fair, he didn't say it's 2% boost to total accuracy.

Hit rate and Accuracy are two seperate, but related things.

 

[Jojojo]

4 accuracy is a 2% boost for your total accuracy? Maybe for a level 60, but at 75, you should have over 250 accuracy from your skill alone; so PCC would help even less.

4 ACC is a 2% boost to your hit rate. Your ACC is pitted against your opponent's evasion: when they are equal and you are the same level, your hit rate is 75%. For every 2 ACC you add after that, your hit rate increases by 1%.

 

[Takumifujiwara]

Unless of course you're sam or drk, then you get 7 attack, 6 acc, AND 5 str.

Justice Torque = winnar

Certainly love mine for my SAM. It's the best neck item for SAM as far as TP'ing. I do swap to Snow/Light gorgets for Tachi: Yuki/Gekko/Kasha for weaponskills because after some time testing the difference I found that the WS gorgets do a tad better for the WS itself. But TP'ing the Justice Torque is full time.

 

[Necrosis]

rofl@ even suggesting chiv chain.

 

[Psylentcuda]

I'd say temperance torque is probably the best. As a WAR/WHM you can wield and axe/sheild combo. The +5 CHR and the added axe skill from the torque will you unleash those crazy high rampages to keep hate.

/sarcasm

 

[Jojojo]

I'd say temperance torque is probably the best. As a WAR/WHM you can wield and axe/sheild combo. The +5 CHR and the added axe skill from the torque will you unleash those crazy high rampages to keep hate.

/sarcasm

Who needs rampage when you get enmity from all that CHR?

 

[Liefe]

fSTR2 is for ranged attacks. That's not what Vilurum was referring to.

As far as ATK vs STR goes on weaponskills goes, it generally depends on the WS you are using. You always want a balance but, for example, when using Asuran Fists attack generally does better than stat stacking.

Anyhow, it's already been discussed that torques are generally the best TPing items for most any situations as far as DD go. Most DD jobs also do the significant portion of their damage with their regular attacks as well, making the torques very nice upgrades.

 

[Necrosis]

fSTR2 is for ranged attacks. That's not what Vilurum was referring to.

As far as ATK vs STR goes on weaponskills goes, it generally depends on the WS you are using. You always want a balance but, for example, when using Asuran Fists attack generally does better than stat stacking.

Anyhow, it's already been discussed that torques are generally the best TPing items for most any situations as far as DD go. Most DD jobs also do the significant portion of their damage with their regular attacks as well, making the torques very nice upgrades.

melee fSTR is calculated using fSTR2 if I understand it correctly, although fSTR2 is for ranged attacks, yes.

 

[Olrox]

Idk I don't even mess with gorgets or chiv chains (lol) on my war when using Great Axe anymore. If I'm using raging rush, then I would want the acc bonus from fort. torque, and if I'm using Steel cyclone, I'd want the acc AND the 5 VIT from the torque. Same if I was using Rampage I would use temp. torque full time.

there are all these scientific calculations but. Here's an easier way to look at it. Eva skill > Eva. So if I have an evasion earring and an ethereal, 3 skill > 5 eva. Since having the higher skill gives you a better chance to meet or exceed a monster's skill. Imo adding reg acc etc is only marginal compared to adding direct skill. But this depends on if you do single or multi hit WS's etc, I hear sometimes gorgets can be better but I haven't seen it on war.

 

[Jojojo]

there are all these scientific calculations but. Here's an easier way to look at it. Eva skill > Eva. So if I have an evasion earring and an ethereal, 3 skill > 5 eva. Since having the higher skill gives you a better chance to meet or exceed a monster's skill. Imo adding reg acc etc is only marginal compared to adding direct skill. But this depends on if you do single or multi hit WS's etc, I hear sometimes gorgets can be better but I haven't seen it on war.

This is what I thought originally, but wiki doesn't say anything about it. It seems that skill adds only accuracy and attack. Which is why i was disappointed.

 

[Liefe]

melee fSTR is calculated using fSTR2 if I understand it correctly, although fSTR2 is for ranged attacks, yes.

Yeah, but one unit of fSTR2 isn't necessarily an fSTR bump. That was my point I guess.