The reason why rdm dont melee

[Trippyhippy]

Notice how most of the people that are saying RDM can melee are actually RDM.

But not every RDM who's spoken up supports meleeing. It's a division among RDMs themselves. Allakhazam's RDM board (if you can stomach their boards at all) usually has melee vs. caster topics on the first page every day, with RDMs from both sides continually tearing each other a new asshole.

This information just makes me want to ask every rdm the question "Do you support the use of melee for a rdm in battle?" before I will invite them.

If they say "No way, I have way more important stuff to be doing!" that's the rdm that I would invite.

 

[Darkdante]

I really like how dictators like to dictate what I can and cannot do in the time I have availble. Especially when said dictators like to make alot of noise about the lesser problems in the game.

When you yell at a white mage to use a certain cure over the other you see the fucker have a cow.

When you yell at a melee to use a certain weapon, come prepared with oils/powerders etc, or at least pay attention to what the fuck is going on at the time, you see the fucker have a cow.

When you yell at a bard to use one song over the other, you see some of those fuckers have a cow.

When you yell at a ranger for being gimp at arrow use you see the fucker have a cow.

When you yell at a tank for not having the best gear possible you see the fucker have a cow.

And then we get to the Redmage thing. The thing different about the Redmage problem is that Everybody who does not play Redmage has a fucking cow with the REdmage.

The dumb thing is all the other above problems happen alot more often, have a much much greater affect on team play, and the same assholes who complain about REdmage don't say anything about the more important shit, especially to the extent they complain about Redmages.

Meleeing doesn't make a bad Redmage, they will be bad even if they stop meleeing. A good Redmage will be good regardless, and he/she will make the decision to stop meleeing themselves.

Maybe next people will say I can't eat and use my computer next.

:roll:

 

[Anttaru]

Just to void a huge fact of yours, Anttaru....yes, RDM could melee with Excalibur, but ANY job could melee very well with their ultimate weapon. There's no real difference.

Ok why are you telling me this ? I speak in my own defense, this thread is not about i, and it has no relation to the way i put out in parties.

Yes, you can be a pretty decent DD with Kraken Club + an enspell, but you wouldn't get too great of a WS unless you go /NIN and actually offhand the club (which in turn, means no /WHM or /BLM, making nukes and enfeebs suffer), and due to RDM Club skill, you'd be fighting Ts (or maybe some VTs with relatively low def) in order to be hitting for more than 0 with the Club to get TP in the first place...and I don't know of many parties that stay content to fighting low VTs/Ts for long. If you can get the att/str bonuses to break 0s on VT/ITs, grats, but I personally have enough trouble hurting VT/IT with a Sea Robber, 253 club (not capped, shame on me.) and 69str with equips. Unless the en-damage guaruntees TP or something? If so, lucky you, and I'll retract this comment...

Mishaela. Melee is not my main objective. And we were talking about WHM/RDM capabilities. I was exchanging advice, don't come back to me with it.

Don't bring up /NIN in parties to me either, it's a waste of time.

The enspell garuntees DMG and not TP, for me it would be +18. When you use a Kraken club alone, it will over lap it's delay on many occations i seen it hit more than 11, and take very short stops. It's not about WS for me, it's about planting enspells X100+ on a mob. for WHM/RDM they have Hexastrike, but the enspell might not land as hard. Why do i find myself talking about this ?

By the way - WHM don't have enough enhancing to use Stoneskin to tank? I solo'd Yum Kimil for a BRD (whom couldn't be near for the fight, since he agroed everything in the general area), got 30xp split between us both (meaning he was what..EM? And an AF NM to boot) and I was /SMN, not, as most RDM are when soloing, /NIN. I've successfully tanked a Typhoon Wyvern from 80%hp to death without /NIN (I was the only mage there) as well. WHM may not be able to solo nor tank as well as RDM, but saying we can't tank is a huge load of crap, thanks. =P

I solo Typhoon Wyverns regularly as RDM/BLM.

Typhoon Wyvern will eat your food and you, if you tried to solo it. It will take your stoneskin in 2 hits.

If you send Avatars after it that's fine, but it's not like your stairing death in the face.

WHM is not made for tanking, they don't have the DEF, and they don't have the enhancing to survive, So what if you solo'd an NM, this does not mean you can tank a VT in a level up party.

The comparrison of RDM and WHM has come to me, just because i respond to it does not mean i want to be attacked by a bunch of WHM that think outside the box.

I'm not gonna go any further into this...if an RDM wants to melee, fine. If they think melee damage will help more than some other form of effort, their choice...

Few of you believe melee prevents us from casting, some RDM save their MP for later, i use my MP now and still convert every 10 minutes. That is called doing extra. Maximum performance is not playing it too safe, and resting MP. Nuke more than once per battle and the RDM is screwing up. Even if they try to rest it off.

It's not "melee instead". Elemental magic is involved just as much as being in the backline. The rest of the party gets served the same.

Problem is alot of RDM's who suck are all kinds, including Melee RDM's and i have to pay for their incompetance like this lol.
At the same time alot of the youth is too foolish to understand this, and automatically assume it's impossible to be an effective RDM if the RDM melee's.

__

"Oh YOU CAN DO FAR GREATER THINGS THAN MELEE"
"I do everything else and i nuke as much"

"YOU SHOULD REST AND HAVE MORE MP SO YOU CAN DO MORE FOR THE PARTY"
"If i rest now i cannot cast, the time to enfeeble and enhance is now, the time to nuke is for MB, and i really can't catch it everytime, there are other things i need to do aswell"

"YOU SHOULD CAST CURE TOO"
"I do cast cure, and i will be resting if the WHM sucks, that's the best i can do for the party and myself, it hardly ever happens though"

"RDM MELEE IS SO WEAK"
"YOUR GIVING THE MOB MORE TP"
"YOU THINK YOUR SPECIAL" etc....


- I Refresh (cycle 1)
- I dispel - I constant watch
- I enfeeble - Also a constant watch
- I Enhance myself - If all mages had stoneskin up like this we'd have less problems.
- I cure - Another constant watch
- I haste (cycle 2)
- I Nuke - Magic burst
- I watch for links - depending on area, constant watch
- I handle links - fun
- I melee - Cry if you want, i'm doing everything else as i would in the backline. I will not run out of MP because of convert and refresh.

I also rely on 5 other party members to work hard at what they do. I cannot be responsible if a PLD WHM or BLM casts too much and have no MP even while they are refreshed, that slows things down, I'm not to blame if someone dies, or if i could not make a MB because i was in the middle of casting something else. I need to be on my feet to make the party more prouducvive on my part. Don't hit me for not resting, while i can burn MP instead and convert.


It's not because your RDM is meleeing your RDM's suck... It's because they suck in general. That is all.

 

[Anttaru]

Notice how most of the people that are saying RDM can melee are actually RDM.

yeah, they are all rdms, and not a real melee damage dealer.

This thread will attract those against Melee RDM. It's the melee RDM's fight. Why exspect any other to support melee RDM ?

And again a RDM meleeing is not about dealing outstanding damage, it's about adding DMG to things like Poision Dia or Bio. Nuking more will effect RDMs performance and resting too much will not mean the RDM will be able to do extra.

 

[Lavi]

Didn't even bother reading most of it since it was the same crap just rehashed. You are not an effective melee. Thats it. Ever notice why it takes RDM an eternity to solo mobs? It probably has to do with their weak attack... Just throwing out a random guess, have no idea why I would think that...

I am the last person who would say don't melee or at least that was before I saw the difference. I was under the impression that if you had more people meleeing, the mob would die faster and although this might hold true, its not effective. MP needs to be recovered, spells need to be casted and recasted, among a plethora of other duties. To add to this, there are AoE attacks which will eat up all the MP in cures, add unnecessary TP to the mob(and this does matter no matter how much you refuse to believe it), and give damage to the mob which is too small to be even worth doing.

A single tier III spell can outdamage all your meleeing in one spell than you can do in the entire chain, but you insist upon meleeing instead of resting so you can cast more of those tier III spells. Thats not only rediculous, its stupid. You don't add damage. No one cares about the damage Dia, Bio or Poison does. Why? Because they are insignificant. The entire reason they are cast is because they have side effects which produce significant results. The same can be said about a RDM. Your damage is crap but the results you produce significantly help the party function.

A RDM doesn't need to be constantly vigilant. His job is does not require attentiveness like that of a WHM who constantly watches HP/ailments or a NIN who must count shadows. An enfeeble wearing although dangerous, does not mean the death of the party and can wait a moment. Yes, that means you have no excuse not to rest.

People join a party with the hope they will be getting the most experience possible and I guarantee you even melee RDM have that same intention. So why would they do it? Everyone has to make sacrifices for a party at one point or another. A melee sometimes has to use a weapon he/she would not want to, so they can make a viable SC. Other melee cannot use certain weapons because they are not capped. WHM, SMN and BLM don't melee because they know the experience will be effected. PLDs rest to recover the MP even at the cost of TP. It doesn't matter what job you play, there are always some downsides you may not want to accept for the better of the party and this is just one of them.

 

[Lavi]

And one last thing. Nothing you do or say here will convince anyone. Most people believe melee RDMs are nothing but a waste of a party spot and the only reason those RDM even get a party slot is because there is constant lack of refreshers available. Most people would be amazed if you can just keep a Refresh cycle let alone know enough to enfeeble. That being said, prove me wrong. You want to show your damage is even remotely worthwhile, get a party and compile the stats. Show us exactly how much damage melee RDM do. Get the stats for an entire hour. See the damage you do in a single fight, the experience/hour, everything. Then compare it with that if you actually made use of that wasted melee time and casted an elemental spell and rested.

Mind you, don't change anything otherwise the experiment is not valid. No one can level, SC must remain the same, you must actually try your best every single fight, try to rest everytime you can, and party must remain the same. Heck if you want to, you can even equip +accuracy gear so you might even actually hit the mob once, but everything else must remain the same.

 

[Neyla]

Lay off the resting part. Most RDM don't have the luxury of resting because it could mean broken or delayed Refresh and Haste cycles, which is unacceptable to a good RDM. The most you could get is a single tick, which isn't worth it when you have Convert at your disposal. And as Anttaru has said, tier 3 spells are a waste of our MP unless everything else is running smoothly. I may not agree with him on meleeing, but he's dead on with all these other points. As for constant vigilance, by the time you get all the enfeebling out and maybe a nuke on the burst and some back-up cures, then it's time to start Refreshing and Hasting again, and on and one it goes until Convert pops back up.

 

[Lavi]

You shouldn't be curing and Hasting, those can be done by a WHM. Haste lasts almost a full two fights if you party is fast enough and a good WHM can keep at least 2 hasted while curing, which leaves 1 person unhasted normally and RNG rarely asks for a haste nor do they need it. I've seen plenty of RDM rest so I guess its just you that doesn't have the luxury.

And as Anttaru has said, tier 3 spells are a waste of our MP unless everything else is running smoothly.

So what you mean to tell me is you constantly have bad parties or that BLMs should skip casting tier III spells? I am sure I must be understanding that wrong, but thats what it looks like. You both have Magic Att Bonus III, your tier III spells should do the same damage as a BLM at around the level of the spell, so again just for the record why is it a waste? The MP? You don't do anything life threatening to the party other than refresh and I am sure people can wait 3 seconds while you get a single tic of MP to get their refresh. Not to mention Antaru clearly stated RDM spells are not MP expensive so you should have sufficient MP...

Now if others can find the time to do it, why can't you?

 

[Courtney]

Anttaru decided a few flames back that tier III spells have a much higher resist rate than tier II spells, so II's will do more damage....

Where he got this, I haven't a clue, but meh....

 

[ultraseven]

DD RDMs are the bestest

<3Courtney[mine]

 

[Courtney]

DD RDMs are the bestest

<3Courtney[mine]

 

[Neyla]

You shouldn't be curing and Hasting, those can be done by a WHM. Haste lasts almost a full two fights if you party is fast enough and a good WHM can keep at least 2 hasted while curing, which leaves 1 person unhasted normally and RNG rarely asks for a haste nor do they need it. I've seen plenty of RDM rest so I guess its just you that doesn't have the luxury.

Haste is an accepted part of an RDM's role because not every WHM casts it on a consistent basis, wants to cast it on everyone who best benefits from it or bother casting it at all until asked to do so. And this is assuming you even have a WHM in the party, which often isn't the case, so instead you end up with a SMN as your main healer. Their subjob doesn't give them access to Haste and Hastega doesn't last nearly as long as the actual spell, making it more of novelty than anything else.

You don't seem to understand that RDMs fill more roles than just enfeebling, refreshing and bursting. I think it was Stouter who earlier said that any RDM who limits themselves to these duties are a waste of a party slot, and I couldn't agree more. Plus you bitch about shitty RDMs but obviously have no idea how many members of your own class stink WHM up with subpar performances by skipping status cures, never casting Regens and blowing off Bar- spells entirely, all of which can save everyone a great deal of hassle and MP. RDMs are often asked to make up for the weaknesses of other mages, and we can do so with relative ease.

When you play all these different roles (Refresher, enfeebler, buffer, back-up healer, nuker) in a party - and every RDM does at some point - rest can be, as I said before, rare. I won't say I've never rested in parties (NINs are easier on everyone if they can manage to keep hate, as are WHMs who don't need everything but their cure spells dictated to them) or cast tier 3 nukes, but an RDM can easily stay on their feet until Convert pops back up and do everything necessary to keep the action going, without making chains suffer one bit. I'll sneak a tick in here and there, but I don't feel it contributes much more than another Refresh (and not even MP for that really).

 

[Lavi]

Haste is an accepted part of an RDM's role because not every WHM casts it on a consistent basis, wants to cast it on everyone who best benefits from it or bother casting it at all until asked to do so. And this is assuming you even have a WHM in the party, which often isn't the case, so instead you end up with a SMN as your main healer. Their subjob doesn't give them access to Haste and Hastega doesn't last nearly as long as the actual spell, making it more of novelty than anything else.

You don't seem to understand that RDMs fill more roles than just enfeebling, refreshing and bursting. I think it was Stouter who earlier said that any RDM who limits themselves to these duties are a waste of a party slot, and I couldn't agree more. Plus you bitch about shitty RDMs but obviously have no idea how many members of your own class stink WHM up with subpar performances by skipping status cures, never casting Regens and blowing off Bar- spells entirely, all of which can save everyone a great deal of hassle and MP. RDMs are often asked to make up for the weaknesses of other mages, and we can do so with relative ease.

When you play all these different roles (Refresher, enfeebler, buffer, back-up healer, nuker) in a party - and every RDM does at some point - rest can be, as I said before, rare. I won't say I've never rested in parties (NINs are easier on everyone if they can manage to keep hate, as are WHMs who don't need everything but their cure spells dictated to them) or cast tier 3 nukes, but an RDM can easily stay on their feet until Convert pops back up and do everything necessary to keep the action going, without making chains suffer one bit. I'll sneak a tick in here and there, but I don't feel it contributes much more than another Refresh (and not even MP for that really).

The discussion is about RDM melee and not bad WHMs. I know there are bad WHMs. I also know there are bad players for every job out there but I am not here to discuss that. I accepted that fact a long time ago; however, I am here arguing(ironic since you are attacking me and yet we agree) that a RDM should not melee because it in now way benefits the party.

The entire discussion is about a standard party with a WHM, RDM and probably a BLM. The reason I ignore any other scenario is because I am sure every melee RDM would not even try meleeing if they knew they were going to be main healer. If they are main healer and melee, they probably won't last in the party long or the party won't go anywhere fast. That being said, a WHM should do most of the hasting. Its in his or her interest because it speeds up the TP building and damage dealt per time which regardless of the tank means the mob has a shortened life span and less damage incurred means less curing. The RDM at most should have 1 person to haste if the WHM has any difficulty hasting them all.

Your main job as a RDM should be to enfeeble and refresh. No more. As secondary to that, you should do elemental spells for a MB and if at all possible more for extra damage. Otherwise rest. Don't cure. WHMs hate that, I hate that with a passion. I cure more efficiently, often the tank is over cured wasting MP and unless something significantly bad happens(link, pulled IT+++ mob or someone dies), the RDM curing should not be necessary. The only jobs left are to enfeeble and refresh which as Anttaru said is not MP expensive or difficult. That leaves plenty of extra time for resting and an extra elemental spell. If that means you need to rest a single tic and then stand up, fine, that's still 30+ more MP than you had before which can be used for anything. I am not suggesting being stingy with the MP and never using Convert either. Quite the opposite. You have honed the ability or should have, to use all your MP in the 10 minute recast for convert, I don't see why you can't modify that and add a few tics of resting. And as little as you think it is to make a rest here and there, a single tic resting per fight adds up. I can get almost 40MP a tic with staff, food and armor. Over the span of 10 mins which is roughly 7 fights, thats translates to 280 MP more than I would have if I didn't bother to rest. Thats no small sum either. Thats 2-3 tier III spells paid for by not meleeing. Thats what? 800-1500 damage? Try getting that much by meleeing, I dare you.

 

[Anttaru]

Didn't even bother reading most of it since it was the same crap just rehashed. You are not an effective melee. Thats it. Ever notice why it takes RDM an eternity to solo mobs? It probably has to do with their weak attack... Just throwing out a random guess, have no idea why I would think that...

I am the last person who would say don't melee or at least that was before I saw the difference. I was under the impression that if you had more people meleeing, the mob would die faster and although this might hold true, its not effective. MP needs to be recovered, spells need to be casted and recasted, among a plethora of other duties. To add to this, there are AoE attacks which will eat up all the MP in cures, add unnecessary TP to the mob(and this does matter no matter how much you refuse to believe it), and give damage to the mob which is too small to be even worth doing.

A single tier III spell can outdamage all your meleeing in one spell than you can do in the entire chain, but you insist upon meleeing instead of resting so you can cast more of those tier III spells. Thats not only rediculous, its stupid. You don't add damage. No one cares about the damage Dia, Bio or Poison does. Why? Because they are insignificant. The entire reason they are cast is because they have side effects which produce significant results. The same can be said about a RDM. Your damage is crap but the results you produce significantly help the party function.

A RDM doesn't need to be constantly vigilant. His job is does not require attentiveness like that of a WHM who constantly watches HP/ailments or a NIN who must count shadows. An enfeeble wearing although dangerous, does not mean the death of the party and can wait a moment. Yes, that means you have no excuse not to rest.

People join a party with the hope they will be getting the most experience possible and I guarantee you even melee RDM have that same intention. So why would they do it? Everyone has to make sacrifices for a party at one point or another. A melee sometimes has to use a weapon he/she would not want to, so they can make a viable SC. Other melee cannot use certain weapons because they are not capped. WHM, SMN and BLM don't melee because they know the experience will be effected. PLDs rest to recover the MP even at the cost of TP. It doesn't matter what job you play, there are always some downsides you may not want to accept for the better of the party and this is just one of them.

Tire III should only be casted when the convert clock is ready, or ready enough, Rest does not give RDM enough MP to last when tire III is used more than once in the given 10 minutes. At the most a RDM can use Tire III no more than twice before convert. Blizzard III for instance costs 120MP if there is a Skillchain and a BLM there is no reason for a RDM to blow away 120 MP when the mob is just about dead, or even for one attack for that matter.... Remember a RDM with MP is one that can function. Tire III with rest will not ensure stability from a RDM. Only when the clock is at 0 or close enough should it ever be casted, i don't know if you'll ever know this. Tire II is good enough and will not make for overkill.

Another thing alot of RDM will tell you is on a good number of magic bursts the BLM ends the battle with their MB cancelling the RDMs casting, if the mob survives wasting 120MP at the instant of the mob near dead is definatly not the smarter thing to do.

Personally Melee is what i do as a RDM. I can do the same when i don't melee, and i still cast the same amount of elemental magic.

Sure i can rest and convert 2 minutes or so later than i would, but during that time i was resting, i can throw in that extra effort, cause when i rest, Haste cycle is not gonna happen on my behalf, and such a thing is rarely seen by anyone else in my eyes, so i take pride in that. And while i'm not resting i will Melee, over 1 single battle i do more DMG this way, and i do it for the next and so on.

As for what you say about AoE attacks, RDM cannot prevent anyone from being hit by one. When AoE is released on the party, i'm the only one that takes 0 DMG, and i'll be casting cure III on whoever took the attack the hardest, if i feel Curaga will bring that person back up i will simply let the WHM do their thing. This should not even be brought up, it's not an issue.

I have been pinned for Melee on a few occations, but they have nothing more to complain about. Usually it's the same people who have a sour reputation, and obviously they dislike seeing one job more active than theirs.

If you don't read what i write there is no point in telling you anything more Lavi. I have no enemy, and if you want to be one that is up to you.

 

[Anttaru]

Anttaru decided a few flames back that tier III spells have a much higher resist rate than tier II spells, so II's will do more damage....

Where he got this, I haven't a clue, but meh....

What i was implying, as i had mentioned in the same post, is that Tire II is a more practical method of MB due to RDM elemental cap skill.

RDM will not succedd in elemental magic like a BLM, and like RDM melee the DMG output will be weak on teh most part, even sometimes a Tire III will do less DMG than a Tire II... Use Tire II, cause it's better to sometimes do ok DMG than to gamble on 120MP/120+mp when you just don't have the high enough cap to ensure worth while DMG.

Blow away 120MP, Blowy, blow it away and most of the time do shitty DMG, Use Tire II for the sake of MP and the party.

You are not a damage dealer you are support class.

 

[Davion]

ok, 8 long pages of why a RDM sucks at meleeing and other self-righteous rants, particular from a few players that have never done the job at that lvl to completely understand it. But that goes for any job cause alot of people in this game complain about a specific player doing their job, but more specifically: not to their specification as to what THEY want he/or she to do...

But if they suck regardless that's different for the sake of Crayola in the initial post...

To put it quite simply: You're not doing your job the way I "want" you to your job so I think you suck regardless of the fact that you are keeping up with your tasks.

That's what I'm seeing...

Now I've done BLM to 74, WHM to 70 and a little bit of RDM (@ lvl 48) (does NOT mean you can blast me about me being a BLM or WHM I know my main jobs to a "T" and no one now can tell me how do to my job now :twisted: :lol: 8) )

When I'm partying as RDM I'll ask if I can melee or not, in so much putting the parties needs before my own. I personally do this if I feel like I want to melee: If I'm running low on MP (after doing what's necessary as to what I've come to know and do as a RDM: i.e: Watching to see if PLD, WHM or BLM or SMN has stopped ticking from Refresh), I stop meleeing and pick up on it, if allowed in another fight.

I feel that RDM's meleeing in a fight should be on a case-by-case, mob-by-mob basis. Basically common sense but some ppl lack that. I would never melee on a Goblin, that's asking for death with suicide bomb with a goblin at full health sometimes.

What I don't get in this post is that almost everyone is missing each others points between the ppl who believe RDM can melee and those that say they cant and should not melee. Selective reading perhaps? I believe you can do everything, within reason, that you job lets you do, if you wanna melee as a RDM, do so if your party does not care that you do. If they say no, then dont, simple as that. I've melee'd alot as RDM and found it quite fun, but I've never seen it affect EXP gained nor the chains. Poor pulling and quickness of the death of the mob does that from what I've experienced. With all do respect Lavi, maybe what you were fighting from your rants and experiences with meleeing RDMs, wasnt all that good cause you and I both no there are some places in the game for 70+ where the EXP sucks a little bit, even in sky sometime. I'm speaking of the 200+ EXP ppl are so used to from the good ol' days. I dont think it's fair to blame a meleeing RDM for a decrease in EXP points. Unless you are saying they are to blame cause of MP counts slowing you down and that's another thing. I think some ppl rely too much on Refresh as a crutch cause some ppl forget to rest their MP or dont want to. I've seen some PLDs not rest cause they wanna do a WS which is fine but I rarely see PLDs do a WS unless their is a lack of a WS to complete a certain skillchain.

 

[Davion]

RDM is lvl 48 the smile got in the way of that...

like so: 48) should be (@ lv 48 )

 

[Lavi]

Tire III should only be casted when the convert clock is ready, or ready enough, Rest does not give RDM enough MP to last when tire III is used more than once in the given 10 minutes. At the most a RDM can use Tire III no more than twice before convert. Blizzard III for instance costs 120MP if there is a Skillchain and a BLM there is no reason for a RDM to blow away 120 MP when the mob is just about dead, or even for one attack for that matter.... Remember a RDM with MP is one that can function. Tire III with rest will not ensure stability from a RDM. Only when the clock is at 0 or close enough should it ever be casted, i don't know if you'll ever know this. Tire II is good enough and will not make for overkill.

Another thing alot of RDM will tell you is on a good number of magic bursts the BLM ends the battle with their MB cancelling the RDMs casting, if the mob survives wasting 120MP at the instant of the mob near dead is definatly not the smarter thing to do.

Personally Melee is what i do as a RDM. I can do the same when i don't melee, and i still cast the same amount of elemental magic.

Sure i can rest and convert 2 minutes or so later than i would, but during that time i was resting, i can throw in that extra effort, cause when i rest, Haste cycle is not gonna happen on my behalf, and such a thing is rarely seen by anyone else in my eyes, so i take pride in that. And while i'm not resting i will Melee, over 1 single battle i do more DMG this way, and i do it for the next and so on.

As for what you say about AoE attacks, RDM cannot prevent anyone from being hit by one. When AoE is released on the party, i'm the only one that takes 0 DMG, and i'll be casting cure III on whoever took the attack the hardest, if i feel Curaga will bring that person back up i will simply let the WHM do their thing. This should not even be brought up, it's not an issue.

I have been pinned for Melee on a few occations, but they have nothing more to complain about. Usually it's the same people who have a sour reputation, and obviously they dislike seeing one job more active than theirs.

If you don't read what i write there is no point in telling you anything more Lavi. I have no enemy, and if you want to be one that is up to you.

I don't read it because its worthless garbage. You start off telling me you melee to give extra damage because you are somehow making up for missed attacks by others and even if that were remotely true, your damage is so small it amounts to nothing. Now you want to tell me its pointless to cast a tier(tires go on cars) III spell because the BLM will ultimately kill the mob. Then why do you even bother meleeing? You don't SC, you don't tank, you don't effectively do any damage. There is no point but to satisfy your wants which in the end is not beneficial to the party.

Please reread my last post in regards to the bold. Its ineficient to convert late. See what you don't seem to grasp is you can rest and have more MP for usuage. Just because you have MP and casted what you normally do, doesn't mean you should cast more. Think of it like this. I said last time I can get about 40 MP per tic with food, gear and staff. If a RDM gets 7 fights in 10 mins(the recast time of convert) you can have approximately 280MP extra if you rest for 1 tic every fight instead of meleeing. Now you don't need to cast a tier III spell, you can do a tier II every fight or a tier I even. Either way its still more damage than you can ever get out of your constant meleeing. Are you still going to tell me there isn't a single way you can waste away 280MP in 10 mins? At lvl 40 when you first had convert, you only had Clear Mind to increase MP while resting, so you were limited to how much MP you consumed before convert recast. At 51, you got dark staff and increased the amount of resting MP thus more MP to consume before convert. At 53, clear mind II. At 72, errant hopp. At 75, clear mind III. Each time you should have found more ways to expend that MP to use convert in the 10 min constraint and be more efficient, why is resting instead of meleeing any different?

Again you mention you taking 0 damage on an AoE attack, I assume that means you are casting stoneskin and/or phalanx. Another 50MP that could have been used more wisely on damage that matters.

No one is jealous of RDM and complains about it. I am surely not. You're not more active than other jobs. The only reason you think so is because you try and melee. What I am angry about is some useless RDM, who hits for diddly damage, wasting my time. I am in no way only biased against RDM but it just so happens this topic is about RDMs. It takes only 1 lousy player to ruin experience for the entire party, but it takes 6 good players to make the best experience possible.

And by the way, I know a tier III spell costs from around 92 MP to 128; however, that is still far less than the 280MP, the amount you could have recovered if you had rested. In fact its 1/3-1/2 as much. You know what you can do with that? Get that elusive chain 6 everyone always wants but no one seems to be able to aquire.

Davion if you haven't noticed the entire game is cookie cutter. Do you see many PLD/BLM? Or maybe THF/DRK? You don't have much choices for experience because there is always a more efficient way. Would you ask a RDM to enfeeble? A WHM to cure? This is simply no different. All I am saying is for the sake of an efficient party, melee RDM is not the choice. It in no way benefits the party and in fact hurts experience, but Anttaru seems to disagree. The only reason people have to argue that its wrong with any validity is "its my game, I'll play it how I want", but those same people neglect to take into account, there are 5 others in that party and you are doing them a disservice.[/b]

 

[Lavi]

2nd paragraph 3rd sentence should read:
Just because you have MP and casted what you normally do, doesn't mean you shouldn't cast more.

 

[Neyla]

Try getting that much by meleeing, I dare you.

Don't lump me in with the meleeing crowd. I think I was mostly blowing off steam over the fact that I spend probably half my time, along with black mages casting status cures, playing the role of WHM. So I went off topic a bit. If a RDM can keep all their spells going and get a few whacks in, whatever. I personally think they're wasting their time, but I don't party with other RDMs so it really isn't my problem.