The reason why rdm dont melee

[Quieren]

interesting

People that don't have red mage around lvl 70 instructing rdm's what to do, and how to do their job. As for melee rdm, keep your asses in the back, all you do is get in the way and cause the mob's to build tp and make you tanks life hell. If ya wanted to melee, pick a melee job next time. It's like me getting invited to a party to play whm or a dmg dealer, not going to work. Neyla knows his damn job, I fail to see how a whm can know so much about another's job. Personally, writing 20 paragraphs on someone else's job that they have no clue about only shows they have to much time on their hands. If you lvled rdm as much as you wrote on here, you'd be a lvl 75 rdm by now.

 

[Bigboy]

You don't seem to understand that RDMs fill more roles than just enfeebling, refreshing and bursting.

We can, but this is our primary role. Anything you do beyond this is unexpected and wouldn't make a RDM who did only this bad.

If you do more than this and run out of MP early, you just end up looking the fool. Not that its hard to avoid, and I think most people can play RDM and be considered great if they just did the above 3 things. I suppose you should toss back-up healing in there too, but unless its just 1 other mage and me, I am rarely the optimal choice. BLM even do fine tossing out the extra cure when you consider they get more -emnity gear than me before Errent Set.

I have gotten to be in a few dual RDM parties lately and I am feeling more reassured that the current RDMs are pretty decent, unless they are just on their best behavior because I am around (which I doubt). I get to have dispel races for the first few fights... and generally the whole situation is fun since having 2 RDM in a PT relieves both of alot of responsabilities and
allows for everyone to get what they want without 1 person being in a panic to make it happen.

 

[Bigboy]

Re: interesting

Neyla knows his damn job, I fail to see how a whm can know so much about another's job. Personally, writing 20 paragraphs on someone else's job that they have no clue about only shows they have to much time on their hands. If you lvled rdm as much as you wrote on here, you'd be a lvl 75 rdm by now.

Every WHM I have leveled with knows how to do my job. Hell they become familiar with the cycle a level before we do actually. WHM and PLD are probably the most familiar with what a good and bad RDM are since these 2 jobs will end up leveling with RDMs all the way up. There may be slight intricate things, but overall, the get the gist of it.

Every PT I join, I inherantly end up picking 1 person that I just natter the night away with for the entire duration of the party. I would say the split is as follows:
WHM - 40%
PLD - 25%
BLM - 25%
others - 10%

These happen to be the people I most commonly connect with and usually enjoy talking with the most. And I have found that every time I interact with 1 of these 3 jobs, they know what I am doing and I know what they are doing.

I'm not saying I am as skillfull as any same level PLD as me, since I don't have PLD unlocked, but I know the job, I know their wants/needs/skills and the approximate levels they get them... all without ever playing the job. I feel most WHM could say the same.

 

[Neyla]

Of course it's our primary role, but more and more I've had to assume other responsibilities the last few times I've partied. Haste hasn't been unexpected as much as it's been demanded, and not so much from melees as it has been from WHMs. More than once I've walked into a party just to hear one say, "Thank god! Someone else with Haste! It's your job now." A nuisance, but you can manage it and everything else without running out of MP. Do I want to cast Haste? Not particularly. But if a WHM refuses to do it and you have DDs with ridiculous delays (DRKs, DRGs), the responsibility falls to us by default.

 

[Bigboy]

Of course it's our primary role, but more and more I've had to assume other responsibilities the last few times I've partied. Haste hasn't been unexpected as much as it's been demanded, and not so much from melees as it has been from WHMs. More than once I've walked into a party just to hear one say, "Thank god! Someone else with Haste! It's your job now." A nuisance, but you can manage it and everything else without running out of MP. Do I want to cast Haste? Not particularly. But if a WHM refuses to do it and you have DDs with ridiculous delays (DRKs, DRGs), the responsibility falls to us by default.

If the WHM doesn't cast haste, the tank gets it and no one else. I say this jokingly, but it's pretty much how I run things. When the other melee start afking for haste, I fill them in right quick as to who they should be directing their questions to.

Of course, if I see a WHM biting off more than they can chew, (3 person haste cycle) without being able to rest enough, I start taking over extras. Generally though, RDM should haste main tank always, even if someone else can. I onyl say that because both PLD and NIN practically need it to do their job, the same can not be said of any DD. The fact that we are less likely to be on our butts when the mob is pulled in, is why we should be in charge of the tank.

If you think a PT is asking too much of you, let them know. If they don't care, neither should you. You sound level headed enough to know when this is the case. Feel free to excersize your sway, WHM's can be replaced by a BLM if the rest of the PT is good enough, make sure they understand that the next time you get a lazy bitch.

 

[Kyr]

.....

 

[Mishaela]

I solo Typhoon Wyverns regularly as RDM/BLM.

Typhoon Wyvern will eat your food and you, if you tried to solo it. It will take your stoneskin in 2 hits.

If you send Avatars after it that's fine, but it's not like your stairing death in the face.

WHM is not made for tanking, they don't have the DEF, and they don't have the enhancing to survive, So what if you solo'd an NM, this does not mean you can tank a VT in a level up party.

Your judging my skill as a WHM on...uhm, what's the word? Oh right..jack shit. A Wyvern doesn't "eat my stoneskin and me" in two hits...hell, my stoneskin can take more than two hits from them, and a hit from them sure as hell won't 1-shot me (without Stoneskin they hit me for 140 at absolute best)

RDM isn't made any better for tanking than WHM, it's all just stacking a bunchof buffs constantly to stay alive - That's not exactly "made for tanking", that's stacking a bunchof buffs to stay alive. I'm not saying WHM can tank better than RDM, but we are far, far away from being unable to tank at all. We're not like overinflated balloons...we don't have 1 vit, 1def and 1hp. And regarding def/vit, I doubt yours is spectacularly higher than mine to begin with, so that's out the window as well. You should really stop making assumptions like that, especially if you don't know crap about the job..

And if you think my level 37 avatar has a remote chance of pulling hate off the mob when I'm meleeing.....do I even needto comment to that?


Again, regarding the solo, melee, tank, or any of that crap - it's your character, do what you want, I don't care. And "so what if you solo'd an NM"? Go solo an NM that'd con DC to you (the one I did was a Skeleton to boot, and if you knew anything as opposed to spouting that crap, you'd know he has a ~150 damage Enfire effect with his attacks, making him hit for up to 250), it's a -little- harder than it sounds.

 

[Anttaru]

Tire III should only be casted when the convert clock is ready, or ready enough, Rest does not give RDM enough MP to last when tire III is used more than once in the given 10 minutes. At the most a RDM can use Tire III no more than twice before convert. Blizzard III for instance costs 120MP if there is a Skillchain and a BLM there is no reason for a RDM to blow away 120 MP when the mob is just about dead, or even for one attack for that matter.... Remember a RDM with MP is one that can function. Tire III with rest will not ensure stability from a RDM. Only when the clock is at 0 or close enough should it ever be casted, i don't know if you'll ever know this. Tire II is good enough and will not make for overkill.

Another thing alot of RDM will tell you is on a good number of magic bursts the BLM ends the battle with their MB cancelling the RDMs casting, if the mob survives wasting 120MP at the instant of the mob near dead is definatly not the smarter thing to do.

Personally Melee is what i do as a RDM. I can do the same when i don't melee, and i still cast the same amount of elemental magic.

Sure i can rest and convert 2 minutes or so later than i would, but during that time i was resting, i can throw in that extra effort, cause when i rest, Haste cycle is not gonna happen on my behalf, and such a thing is rarely seen by anyone else in my eyes, so i take pride in that. And while i'm not resting i will Melee, over 1 single battle i do more DMG this way, and i do it for the next and so on.

As for what you say about AoE attacks, RDM cannot prevent anyone from being hit by one. When AoE is released on the party, i'm the only one that takes 0 DMG, and i'll be casting cure III on whoever took the attack the hardest, if i feel Curaga will bring that person back up i will simply let the WHM do their thing. This should not even be brought up, it's not an issue.

I have been pinned for Melee on a few occations, but they have nothing more to complain about. Usually it's the same people who have a sour reputation, and obviously they dislike seeing one job more active than theirs.

If you don't read what i write there is no point in telling you anything more Lavi. I have no enemy, and if you want to be one that is up to you.

I don't read it because its worthless garbage. You start off telling me you melee to give extra damage because you are somehow making up for missed attacks by others and even if that were remotely true, your damage is so small it amounts to nothing.

I never said RDM melee makes up for missed attacks, i simply stated how all melee attacks from other melee jobs are random based, and how RDM misses the most, why complain ?

Now you want to tell me its pointless to cast a tier(tires go on cars) III spell because the BLM will ultimately kill the mob. Then why do you even bother meleeing? You don't SC, you don't tank, you don't effectively do any damage. There is no point but to satisfy your wants which in the end is not beneficial to the party.

The Melee and the BLM will either bring the mob to an end or bring it very close to death, It's not a good time for RDM to blow away 120mp, it's just not smart.

Please reread my last post in regards to the bold. Its ineficient to convert late.

Nothing wrong with resting MP, but doing so will ensure converting late. Watch what you say.

See what you don't seem to grasp is you can rest and have more MP for usuage. Just because you have MP and casted what you normally do, doesn't mean you should cast more.

I cast extra to push the party faster, saving MP for later dosn't make sence to me while keeping up cycles and detailing enhancing on the party best i can. I'm also quick to dispel while on my feet.

Think of it like this. I said last time I can get about 40 MP per tic with food, gear and staff. If a RDM gets 7 fights in 10 mins(the recast time of convert) you can have approximately 280MP extra if you rest for 1 tic every fight instead of meleeing.

It's not a matter of meleeing at all that seperates resting and not resting. Melee is something i do since i'm on my feet anyway. I can delay convert sure, but i needn't waste time collecting MP when i can convert and start the clock sooner. This allows RDM to do more, it's time ripping.

Now you don't need to cast a tier III spell, you can do a tier II every fight or a tier I even. Either way its still more damage than you can ever get out of your constant meleeing.

My melee is never constant due to the amount of casting. If you pay attention you would notice i mentioned i do use Tier II elemental magic.

Say a RDM magic burst 360 DMG
26 DMG +12/18 melee DMG per hit. Now what if i hit the mob 3 times which is likely.

Not including the shreads of extra DMG the others do from Dia and what Dia does on it's own, it is however the RDMs doing, and not as much as what i do one my own.

Are you still going to tell me there isn't a single way you can waste away 280MP in 10 mins?

I don't waste MP, but i do spend more MP than my MP gauge has in 10 minutes, and convert fairly early compared to your idea.

All and all a RDM should not trade 280 DMG for 600 DMG. With others to serve the RDM simply won't get it back fast enough and the cycles will end, if that magnitude of MP is spent twice in 2 seperate battles.

At lvl 40 when you first had convert, you only had Clear Mind to increase MP while resting, so you were limited to how much MP you consumed before convert recast.

RDM is entirly different under level 41, convert alone does not make RDM the kind of MP generator they are at level 41+.

At 51, you got dark staff and increased the amount of resting MP thus more MP to consume before convert.

I got a dark, i use it when i do rest.

At 53, clear mind II.

No Lavi RDM does not get clear mind II. Who told you this ?

At 72, errant hopp. At 75, clear mind III. Each time you should have found more ways to expend that MP to use convert in the 10 min constraint and be more efficient, why is resting instead of meleeing any different?

I can no longer debate with you Lavi, you know nothing or RDM. Your demands on how your RDM should be have no relavance to how the game was made.

Again you mention you taking 0 damage on an AoE attack, I assume that means you are casting stoneskin and/or phalanx. Another 50MP that could have been used more wisely on damage that matters.

Go learn RDM then come back and tell me how taxing stoneskin really is. A mage protecting their HP (especially when the HP is for convert) using stoneskin regularly is very wise.

No one is jealous of RDM and complains about it. I am surely not.

That is off topic but, who said anyone is jealous of RDM ? There were complaints of RDM though. It almost never passed beta testing, the creators of the game know for sure what they were doing though, the job itself is a masterpeice. People also complained about RDM's unfair advantage in ballista too.

You're not more active than other jobs. The only reason you think so is because you try and melee.

Without melee i'm still more active. dosn't mean i'm better than a BRD, but atleast their cycles are AoE, while RDM does one person at a time. It's more active than Ninja's Uts, cause i have the cycles, and other tasks while looking over the HP as well. Melee is not a challenge, it is extra and in no way stops me from doing the things i do. Nor does it distract me.

What I am angry about is some useless RDM, who hits for diddly damage, wasting my time. I am in no way only biased against RDM but it just so happens this topic is about RDMs.

Start naming names, or is this all about RDMs like you said ? You already showed us how you think RDM gets higher level BLM job traits, and assume melee prevents RDM from casting elemental magic.

It takes only 1 lousy player to ruin experience for the entire party, but it takes 6 good players to make the best experience possible.

Your talking to a RDM that does everything + melee.

- No AoE kills or slows my party (not saying it never happened it wasn't my fault either.)
- TP attacks does not appear any stronger or draining to the WHM.

What else do complain about again ?

And by the way, I know a tier III spell costs from around 92 MP to 128; however, that is still far less than the 280MP, the amount you could have recovered if you had rested. In fact its 1/3-1/2 as much. You know what you can do with that? Get that elusive chain 6 everyone always wants but no one seems to be able to aquire.

That is all amature theory Lavi.
You forget RDMs ability to convert is time based i can have 280MP and the clock can be at 2 minutes countdown and everything is still running smoothly. Usually convert is ready around 300MP or so for me.

Trying to recover 280MP won't make things happen faster.

Davion if you haven't noticed the entire game is cookie cutter. Do you see many PLD/BLM? Or maybe THF/DRK? You don't have much choices for experience because there is always a more efficient way. Would you ask a RDM to enfeeble? A WHM to cure? This is simply no different. All I am saying is for the sake of an efficient party, melee RDM is not the choice. It in no way benefits the party and in fact hurts experience, but Anttaru seems to disagree. The only reason people have to argue that its wrong with any validity is "its my game, I'll play it how I want", but those same people neglect to take into account, there are 5 others in that party and you are doing them a disservice.[/b]

I never said RDM melee is outstanding, it's something i do as i do everything else, you firmly believe RDM melee is a trade off from casting magic, and you also believe it causes the mob to release attacks that brings prouduction to a hault. Behing an actual RDM i have seen the truth, do you think i'm schooling you for fun ? or for what i have seen for real and stand by ?

P.S. Stop saying the word "disservice" there is no such word and the more you use it, the more it exsposes your make believe nature when it comes to knowledge on a general term.

 

[Anttaru]

Tire III should only be casted when the convert clock is ready, or ready enough, Rest does not give RDM enough MP to last when tire III is used more than once in the given 10 minutes. At the most a RDM can use Tire III no more than twice before convert. Blizzard III for instance costs 120MP if there is a Skillchain and a BLM there is no reason for a RDM to blow away 120 MP when the mob is just about dead, or even for one attack for that matter.... Remember a RDM with MP is one that can function. Tire III with rest will not ensure stability from a RDM. Only when the clock is at 0 or close enough should it ever be casted, i don't know if you'll ever know this. Tire II is good enough and will not make for overkill.

- Anttaru

I always Magic Bursted with my highest Tier Spell, yes even Tier III. I did my job, kept a refresh cycle up, hasted appropriately, enfeebled, etc. Everything a party wants from a Red Mage. Helped heal. Never did I have MP issues for it.

Obviously, you DO NOT Magic Burst with Tier III spells if its going to be overkilll. That makes sense. But that is the only time I can think of not doing it. Just like you shouldn't melee if the mob uses a very nasty AoE. It's just something you have to sit back and think 'Duh!'. Not a reason to never use it, just a particular instance not to.

That being said, I don't know how or why you can reason that MP is the issue, particularly in the later levels. I'm a Mithra, now 75 RDM for a while, but even as I was leveling up I never had MP issues by Magic Bursting with Tier III stuff. My gear was average at best. I never had any complaints about my job. If people question my words, ask around, maybe I am wrong and someone finds me to be a totally inept player but were too afraid to tell me. However, I did find a lot of praise in people glad I was doing the job of a RDM. I religiously Magic Bursted (and to be honest, was complimented a lot that I did so while still maintaining my duties as RDM effectively) with my best spell available when it was applicable and not a waste of MP. I am not a taru, just a Mithra, so it isn't like I have extraordinary MP to work with either.

I guess my problem is understanding where MP is an issue in this argument. You can toss examples of when it might be a problem, some instances, but to be quite honest and blunt, I think people who argue against Magic Bursting Tier III spells are just not adjusting their partying tactics for it. I'll admit, as soon as I got my first Tier III spells that I regularly used, I relied more on my Convert timer. However, every level that passes makes that less and less necessary, while still Magic Bursting with Tier III spells.

Another instance to not MB with highest tier spells: If you're main healing. I know there are times it isn't appropriate. But that doesn't justify it not to be done when playing a purely RDM role.

I'm not trying to argue RDM Melee is pointless. I have yet to see a really effective RDM Melee in a party setting, as they usually end up slacking in one area or another (but they themselves usualy think they aren't), but I know it probably can be done. Perhaps you can do it. Perhaps the next up and coming RDM sitting in Jeuno LFP can do it. I just found something wrong when people make claims how doing something like bursting Tier III spells is not effective or doable, when I myself did it throughout my levels as RDM. I have yet to see how it wasn't beneficial, nor that it was an impossible task to accomplish. *shrugs*

Alot of what you say is the same as what i have said, and also basic RDM facts.

Except, MBing with Tier III spells, if you want to blow away 120+ MP for DMG which is highly prone to resistance that is up to you, If you can do this mob for mob and still be able to function properly with well connected cycles and ensured leftorver MP is a mystery to many. I care little for taking in another person to debate with, but i can't lie and say i beieve you either.

 

[Lavi]

Not going to even attempt at responding. I've said what I need to say and it stands.

Disservice n. A harmful action; an injury.
A dictionary is your friend...

 

[Valoran]

P.S. Stop saying the word "disservice" there is no such word and the more you use it, the more it exsposes your make believe nature when it comes to knowledge on a general term.

There is such a word as disservice and Lavi used it correctly. Don't flame someone's spelling, grammar, or diction without knowing the rule in play. Carry on with your debate.

My OED link is touchy on my home comp, but here's the dictionary.com entry, which for once I found satisfactory:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=disservice

PS: Does anyone else hate posts that take someone else's post line by line and disagree with it? Just write your own opinion -- succinctly -- and post that. Line by line is just taking someone too personally.

 

[Anttaru]

I solo Typhoon Wyverns regularly as RDM/BLM.

Typhoon Wyvern will eat your food and you, if you tried to solo it. It will take your stoneskin in 2 hits.

If you send Avatars after it that's fine, but it's not like your stairing death in the face.

WHM is not made for tanking, they don't have the DEF, and they don't have the enhancing to survive, So what if you solo'd an NM, this does not mean you can tank a VT in a level up party.

Your judging my skill as a WHM on...uhm, what's the word? Oh right..jack shit. A Wyvern doesn't "eat my stoneskin and me" in two hits...hell, my stoneskin can take more than two hits from them, and a hit from them sure as hell won't 1-shot me (without Stoneskin they hit me for 140 at absolute best)

It will eat your stoneskin in 2 hits, maybe i am off by one hit who cares. And i never judged your skill stop making stuff up.

RDM isn't made any better for tanking than WHM, it's all just stacking a bunchof buffs constantly to stay alive - That's not exactly "made for tanking", that's stacking a bunchof buffs to stay alive.

It costs RDM too much MP to tank efficiently in parties, but RDM does have high DEF without Stoneskin and Phalanx, RDM AF DEF is very close to PLD, and RDM's can take more abuse than most jobs. Also when it comes to Buffs, RDM has the highest enhancing cap, which gives RDM a mean ass stoneskin, Between RDM and WHM, RDM is a better tank.

I'm not saying WHM can tank better than RDM, but we are far, far away from being unable to tank at all. We're not like overinflated balloons...we don't have 1 vit, 1def and 1hp. And regarding def/vit, I doubt yours is spectacularly higher than mine to begin with, so that's out the window as well. You should really stop making assumptions like that, especially if you don't know crap about the job..

What assumption ? That WHM's can tank ?

I'm sorry Mishaela, I have no interest in attacking people who think outside the box, if you can exceed others exspections i encourage that

And if you think my level 37 avatar has a remote chance of pulling hate off the mob when I'm meleeing.....do I even needto comment to that?

And you can solo a Typhoon wyvern melee ? Now way... and it hits you for 140 DMG at the most you say ?

RDM/any SJ can do it, BLM/WHM can do it, but WHM solo Typhoon Wyvern melee and win ? I'm listening, and maybe i'll get to see how this is done one day.

Again, regarding the solo, melee, tank, or any of that crap - it's your character, do what you want, I don't care.

What do you really want when you post to me ? It's not important is it ?

And "so what if you solo'd an NM"? Go solo an NM that'd con DC to you (the one I did was a Skeleton to boot, and if you knew anything as opposed to spouting that crap, you'd know he has a ~150 damage Enfire effect with his attacks, making him hit for up to 250), it's a -little- harder than it sounds.

Sounds interesting, i would gravity it so i can kite it for awhile, then dispel that nasty enfire so it would hit for 100 or less or so silence it if i can,(If RDM can't silence it, no one can), of coarse enhance myself, phalanx stoneskin, enthunder or enblizzard keep up refresh, Basically treat it like Aquarous. Keep it paralyzed as much as i can, once everything is up you simply put it back when it wears off, from there the RDM excells.

I don't know anything about you Mishaela, and i never judged you in any way, if you are the kind of WHM you make yourself out to be, i cannot disrespect that. Next time you come to me try being a little more friendly. Your ambition to show me up is so adorable, i don't even feel like fighting.

 

[Anttaru]

P.S. Stop saying the word "disservice" there is no such word and the more you use it, the more it exsposes your make believe nature when it comes to knowledge on a general term.

There is such a word as disservice and Lavi used it correctly. Don't flame someone's spelling, grammar, or diction without knowing the rule in play. Carry on with your debate.

My OED link is touchy on my home comp, but here's the dictionary.com entry, which for once I found satisfactory:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=disservice

PS: Does anyone else hate posts that take someone else's post line by line and disagree with it? Just write your own opinion -- succinctly -- and post that. Line by line is just taking someone too personally.

Bleh, in that case i'll take great offence to the word.

Thank you.

 

[Kyr]

.....

 

[The Druw]

RDM who want to melee:

"Hey guys, do you mind if I melee? If it starts to disrupt my abilites, to a noticable fashion by myself and the group I will stop."

Party with RDM who wants to Melee:

"ok Sure"


Scenario 1:

RDM keeps his cycles, gets to whack the mob, does his job, everyones happy.

Scenario 2:

RDM Can't keep his cycles, humbly puts the sword up and proceeds to cast with the other mages.

Scenario 3:

RDM Whines about wanting to melee anyway,unable to keep his duties up as a mage(which is a part of his job's name) refuses to comply, PT seeks replacement.




Just some thoughts. o.o

 

[Mishaela]

I said "tank", not solo.

And Ant, stop undermining WHM to make your own job look better, goddamn.

It costs RDM too much MP to tank efficiently in parties, but RDM does have high DEF without Stoneskin and Phalanx, RDM AF DEF is very close to PLD, and RDM's can take more abuse than most jobs. Also when it comes to Buffs, RDM has the highest enhancing cap, which gives RDM a mean ass stoneskin, Between RDM and WHM, RDM is a better tank.

I agree. But that in no way means that WHM -can't tank-, which is what you've been saying previously.

And you can solo a Typhoon wyvern melee ? Now way... and it hits you for 140 DMG at the most you say ?

RDM/any SJ can do it, BLM/WHM can do it, but WHM solo Typhoon Wyvern melee and win ? I'm listening, and maybe i'll get to see how this is done one day.

Last I checked the issue was tanking, not soloing. I don't know if I could solo one or not, but I think the only serious obstacle vs these guys is Dread Shriek, which would paralyze anyone all the same so no job would exactly have a "greater difficulty", unless they have no Paralyna.

Mishaela wrote:
Again, regarding the solo, melee, tank, or any of that crap - it's your character, do what you want, I don't care.


What do you really want when you post to me ? It's not important is it ?

Uhm...I basically said if you wanna be a RDM melee or whatever, go ahead. Don't really see why you'd feel like making an issue on that at all...

Sounds interesting, i would gravity it so i can kite it for awhile, then dispel that nasty enfire so it would hit for 100 or less or so silence it if i can,(If RDM can't silence it, no one can), of coarse enhance myself, phalanx stoneskin, enthunder or enblizzard keep up refresh, Basically treat it like Aquarous. Keep it paralyzed as much as i can, once everything is up you simply put it back when it wears off, from there the RDM excells.

It's Enfire can't be dispelled, its a permanent added effect. ^^; (kinda like Ose's Enparalyze effect but kicks in 100%..can't think of any other examples)
And would you solo Aquarius when it gives you 72exp? If so, grats on that, it's something I couldn't ever do (at least not until SMN is higher..)

Sorry to have turned that into such a long arguement, just trying to get a point across that WHM can be a tank, a rather good one at that. And we can solo several things, even if not as much as RDM or something...but we're not some crappy little glass-statue job. =\

 

[hellstorm]

I solo Typhoon Wyverns regularly as RDM/BLM.

Typhoon Wyvern will eat your food and you, if you tried to solo it. It will take your stoneskin in 2 hits.

If you send Avatars after it that's fine, but it's not like your stairing death in the face.

WHM is not made for tanking, they don't have the DEF, and they don't have the enhancing to survive, So what if you solo'd an NM, this does not mean you can tank a VT in a level up party.

Your judging my skill as a WHM on...uhm, what's the word? Oh right..jack shit. A Wyvern doesn't "eat my stoneskin and me" in two hits...hell, my stoneskin can take more than two hits from them, and a hit from them sure as hell won't 1-shot me (without Stoneskin they hit me for 140 at absolute best)

RDM isn't made any better for tanking than WHM, it's all just stacking a bunchof buffs constantly to stay alive - That's not exactly "made for tanking", that's stacking a bunchof buffs to stay alive. I'm not saying WHM can tank better than RDM, but we are far, far away from being unable to tank at all. We're not like overinflated balloons...we don't have 1 vit, 1def and 1hp. And regarding def/vit, I doubt yours is spectacularly higher than mine to begin with, so that's out the window as well. You should really stop making assumptions like that, especially if you don't know crap about the job..

And if you think my level 37 avatar has a remote chance of pulling hate off the mob when I'm meleeing.....do I even needto comment to that?


Again, regarding the solo, melee, tank, or any of that crap - it's your character, do what you want, I don't care. And "so what if you solo'd an NM"? Go solo an NM that'd con DC to you (the one I did was a Skeleton to boot, and if you knew anything as opposed to spouting that crap, you'd know he has a ~150 damage Enfire effect with his attacks, making him hit for up to 250), it's a -little- harder than it sounds.

see the diffent between a whm and rdm is a rdm also has phalanx. Now you going say well i can sub rdm. <true> but we can sub nin and have 2 more shadow spells. we also have en spells and other spell help solo better ie: geavity, dispell.



also a rdm can melee just fine in exp with teir 3 spells. The only reason I dont do it is errant gear really put a damper in your already low dmg. Rdm have a diversity of exceptible subs which other classes would find dampering to there job. /drk /war /blm /whm /smn /brd /nin /thf
the thing is that a rdm could still hold it own even without a sub, while other jobs depend on it.

i as a mithra rdm go towards int and mind more then mana. I hardly ever run out of mana and hardly ever rest the 10 min convert time is enough and I do enf with all enfeb spells and refresh every player with mana<in a domino style move{ie when mine where off i know that the next person will wear off in about 16 secs give or take}> I also mb every sc and cure and haste when needed.

 

[Skaw]

You know, it's funny how much Red Mages whine that they can melee, when even White Mages get better melee-suited equipment and weapon skill levels(and weaponskills) than them, but yet you don't see white mages gunning up to the mob, clubs-a-swinging.

 

[Messiah]

You know, it's funny how much Red Mages whine that they can melee, when even White Mages get better melee-suited equipment and weapon skill levels(and weaponskills) than them, but yet you don't see white mages gunning up to the mob, clubs-a-swinging.

better melee-suited equipment ????? staves and clubs better than swords, daggers...? wow that's something new :O

 

[Neyla]

Hexa Strike > anything we can do, flat out.