The snowball is rolling

[Acutie]

Call me stupid but I don't see how that is hysterical. Doesn't it make sense that they would back the illigalization of one drug that is similar to cigs?

 

[Mirewen]

I think he means that people who want marijuana illegal don't want cigarettes illegal?

I see way more people wanting marijuana legal and want cigarettes illegal personally.

I don't smoke either, I love my lungs too much.

 

[Morcheeba]

I think it would be because people are scared. Scared of consequences they shouldn't have to face when smoking a doob to relax. So they'd be more likely to turn to cigarettes when stressed because it's within the law and acceptable in that sense although it could destroy their life and the lives of their loved ones.

It's definitely ass backwards. This kind of thinking gets me angry with the world I live in because it's sickening to know the Government will support something as hazardous and life threatening as Tobacco (which is proven to have lethal capabilities) but they themselves are scared of pot (which is proven to have medicinal capabilities) .

Selfish Selfish Governments, FOR SHAME!

Mire you are a smart lady <3 No matter what kind of smoke it is you breath into your lungs it is damaging, there's just no denying that fact.

 

[Celvantes]

Your political posts have been getting progressively more and more ridiculous and now this one is just a pathetic overreaction. You got a problem with it? Than fucking say so and use whatever is inside that little brain of yours instead of posting this garbage.

I've given up posting my thoughts because I've found that on this forum, it's a fucking waste of time. 30 minutes of research, writing, formatting and double checking end up with responses that are the intellectual equivalent of "NO, YOU!"

So I've given up, and instead choose to simply give the most minimal response that reflects my feelings. Hey, if the rest of the internet can do it, I can too.



In case the Soviet National Anthem was too subtle a point for you, I think that the President's policies are taking us down the road of socialism, a direction I believe is wrong and stands in stark contrast to the principles of rugged individualism on which this country was founded.

 

[Morcheeba]

At any rate, regarding the OP I strongly believe if the military wishes to outlaw tobacco use they have every right to.

There are requirements in which soldiers need to meet in order to make it through and stay on. The banning of tobacco use for soldiers just adds to that list. Although it'll be one of the most extremely difficult changes to implement it IS beneficial to the troops. And really, in all honesty it is no different than banning the use of drugs. They can put whatever restrictions in place they feel is appropriate.

I know smoking a cigarette to relax a bit when stressed can do the job, but there ARE other options in which people can turn to for stress relief.

It's their rules, it's their playground, it's their money and damnit if they want to piss off majority of their soldiers then by God they can do it! lol

Good luck

 

[Dejavu]

Ok I have taken some time before I responded to this thread due to my shock as to its current content…

Through will of God(aka naturally or accident through no fault of your own) your Gov't should provide the medical treatment for free in a unified system. AKA Canada.
Through your own stupidity, you should have to pay for the treatment. AKA The Canada I want to live in.

Come to think of it, the military shouldn't be smoking because it is a major health concern and one of the most widely known. Civies pay for them to be in top shape and pay for their healthcare. To me it's obvious that it should be banned.

In so many ways I have communist views. People sensationalize every little right that gets infringed upon, and of course they think that if one is infringed upon it will lead to more and more and more until you have none but that isn't the case. Every person born in every country should have a to submit a dna sample to remain in the country. Law enforcement would be so much easier, so much money would be saved, so many innocents would not be convicted BUT dear lord we can't do that because it infringed on some stupid right.

Just like this, It's total fucking common sense not to smoke.You can't always get what you want. Guess who ends up paying after you make a stupid choice because it's your right, everyone else who didn't make that choice? Is that fair? No the fuck it isn't.

Please explain to me why the government should provide healthcare if you want to spin that off to a different thread because im sure it could use one.. im sure the moderators will be more than happy to accommodate.

If you are going to make the argument that the military should not be smoking because we flip the coin on the medical expenses then the conversation quickly needs to roll into the argument that since we are pushing for nationalized healthcare these guidelines should be applied to everyone. If people shouldn’t be smoking because it is a major health risk then I have several other initiatives that you should look at. People being fat raises healthcare costs so eating too much should also be illegal… along with smoking, drinking, driving a car, sun tanning, serving in the military, guns, using a microwave, females having babies, video games, walking near roads.

I am not trying to make a case that smoking is good for you or should be done but there are a ton of things in life that are bad for us that we do anyways. If a person chooses to smoke then that is their choice perhaps then they should be responsible for any problems that arise from undergoing risky activities.

Making smoking cigarettes illegal is going to make some people quit sure but not everyone. What it is going to do though is create an black market for tobacco related products and make tons of people who were upstanding citizens criminals.

If you want people to quit smoking the way to do that is education. I don’t smoke but I should have that right should I choose to. I hope you don’t actually believe the DNA at childbirth statement because that would lead to looking for no evidence except DNA evidence. That kind of power in any system would scare me just because it makes it too easy to stop looking for further evidence and get comfortable on the first answer that comes out.

It is common sense not to smoke. It is also common sense to not be fat. I shouldn’t have to pay for your or someone else’s lack of common sense I agree with you there… but I don’t think that I should have to pay for anyone but myself and if I don’t have common sense then the expense falls on me.

Makes perfect sense that they are banned from the Military. They cause a whole slew of health problems and make soldiers less effective. If my taxes are paying them to be top notch fighters, i expect them to be top notch fighters.

They can keep raising the taxes on it for all i care. I don't smoke and i never plan to. Its an incredibly stupid thing to do. Let the people pay for their addiction.

But you are imposing your values on someone else. I don’t smoke but its not my right to pay for things that I want by imposing greater taxes on things that I don’t use. That’s like saying I don’t have a house so I think they should double property taxes in order to pay for better schools. What gives you the right to impose your values on someone else and spend their money.

Well, the problem that I'm sure a lot of people see if this were to come to fruition is the idea that this just leads to bans on more things that are deemed unhealthy. Smoking cigarettes is terrible for the smoker's health as well as everyone around them. When the public has to pay because others are unhealthy, it only makes sense to remove the problem. Problems caused by obesity are even more of an issue, its just that the "blame" for America's obesity problem is more difficult to target, while cigarettes are obviously easy to point out. While it would be a tough pill to swallow, would it really be such a bad thing for people to be forced or strongly persuaded to adopt healthier life styles. In a perfect world yea, we can eat and smoke and drink whatever we want with no repercussions. Unfortunately, this is not a world we live in.

Of course on the flip side...where do you draw the line? Also, I'm all for Government regulation on certain things...but something like this takes things to a whole new level. I think a better way to go about things is through public education and perhaps reducing the cost of healthy foods. As a recent article on CNN I read showed...the smaller your budget is, generally the worse the food you buy is for you. Of course there are more factors in play, but it is not a far fetched notion that eating healthy while still maintaining some flavor is a more expensive life style.

Honestly its a very tough situation. Health care costs are the #1 reason people declare bankruptcy in the U.S. so one has to acknowledge the need reduce or eliminate the utterly devastating cost. Universal health care in some form is a possible answer to this problem, however implementing this incredibly costly program is no simple task. You will bet your ass the Government will do whatever they can to reduce it's cost over the years and the best way to accomplish that is by preventing health issues.

Edit: Also, I am perfectly okay with the Government banning cigarettes in the military. They are not normal citizens and are not always entitled to the same rights that civilians are. Their health is of the utmost importance and is directly related to their performance on the job. Hell, its why I cannot ever enlist just for the sole reason that I have diabetes (type 1; which I think is a crock of shit btw).

Why does the public have to pay for others being unhealthy? Why doesn’t the person have to pay for themselves being unhealthy… There is too much the government has to in this thread being used as premises to help prove these conclusions and these premises are just not fact.

But in truth you said what may perhaps be the most discouraging and perhaps infuriating thing I have ever said in this forum because you made the comment that they are not normal citizens and are not entitled to the same rights… all I have to say is are you fucking kidding me. They are the best kind of citizens if anything they should be afforded more rights than anyone else due to the fact that they are willing to fight for their and those who do not wish to fight’s rights.

Its a volunteer army. If they volunteer, then I guess they would be volunteering to quit smoking too.

On another note, out of the 15 or so adults (who aren't angsty teenagers) I know that do smoke... I can only name one that I've asked that said "No, I love smoking and never want to quit." Killing tobacco use in the military wouldn't be as bad as you might think. After all, you still have a decision to make.

It is currently a volunteer army but at the same time you cannot just say I want to keep smoking so im done and quit like a normal job. On the other hand I guess there is a time period before this would go into effect so this point is fairly moot. The question becomes if 30% of the military chose to leave because they would rather keep smoking what kind of a position that puts us in.

They should ban alcohol in the military, not smoking. Alcohol causes a lot more problems lol

Agreed about it causing more problems than tobacco but I still feel that people should have every right to hurt themselves.

Ahh in the Military, well that's easy enough, you quit or you gtfo period.

Or they jack up the prices like they have here so the taxes the Government gets from tobacco sales greatly outweighs the actual expense of tobacco related medical care.

Taxes general workers have deducted from their pays going to cover health care, and those who smoke practically handing the Government a good 30% from each sale would certainly help curb the out of pocket expense.

Of course I had this conversation once already here regarding the Tobacco industry being left to cash out on everyone, when it should be made illegal.

Although it's personal choice, and with the age restrictions in place and most of the time honored it's educated fools that still suck back on that sweet sweet cancer stick. I'm one of them. I still think this differs from lets say a seat belt law. The chances of getting into a car accident requiring you to be belted in to unarguably save your life is slim, still there, still stupid to go without but ultimately you are harming no one but yourself and putting no one else in harms way. Tobacco differs.

Our Government makes a lot on tobacco sales. It's REALLY quite ridiculous, but heh it's just another business they're cashing out on. They set standards these tobacco companies have to meet and force them to print disgusting factual graphic imagery to try to curb their addicted but they'll happily take part in reaping the benefits. Government is a parasite in this fashion. IF they perhaps thought to legalize marijuana and outlaw tobacco instead and have that all nicely packaged up in different quantities and grades for the public to enjoy there would be less of this to concern us.

All in all, it doesn't surprise me. But if your Government were to take a look north of the boarder they would see simply jacking up the cost of smokes 3x what they are now making a profit margin of 40% their pockets would soon be more lined.

Well I really doubt that you price per pack is as high as the “cost” I have seen on a lefty blog the other day which claimed that inorder to cover the healthcare costs a pack of cigarettes would have to cost 225 dollars a pack… which kinda made me laugh.

I find it hysterical that the same people that back other drugs being illegal (e.g. Marijuana) are the people that fight the banning of cigarettes.

Yea I find that kind of strange myself but it really boils down to this cigarettes are safer for the people around you seeing as I have never heard of anyone being too impaired by cigarettes to drive and marijuana is safer for you from a long term perspective… however neither should be illegal

Why not I know I have every right.

I have been addicted to cigarettes since I was 13. I was stupid not uneducated. I'm educated about pot as well and I'll stand by legalizing pot and banning tobacco.

Cigarettes are far more destructive than pot. They took a natural substance much like marijuana but added a shit ton of incredibly damaging and life threatening chemicals to increase the 'flavour' (addictive properties) whereas marijuana for the most part remains completely natural. The addictive properties are more psychological than physical in pot.

I think it's ass backwards for our Governments to support something like tobacco yet set restrictions and standards within the industry, like forcing the companies here to print graphic images on their packs while still taking a huge bite out of the profits. They try to 'warn' and 'educate' the public, you know showing their concern and all but don't mind taking our money.

They won't legalize a 'controlled' substance that has been proven to have medicinal properties....

It all comes down to money, they make more controlling the selling of tobacco substances than dishing out funds to treat those who become victim of the nasty side effects of tobacco use.

Where as with Marijuana they COULD make a shit ton, not have half the worries they do now with treating said side effects but they're too stupid to capitolize on something they are more afraid of.

If that's not hypocrisy I don't know what is.

I don’t believe the government should not regulate what is in cigarettes at all. If one brand of cigarettes kill people faster than others im sure I can guess which company is going to have trouble keeping themselves in business.

The statement I was given at our last Safety Stand Down was that the U.S. military will be cigarrette free in 20 years, not 5 to 10.

Either way I'll be very surprised to see it happen. I want to say over half of the enlisted here smoke, some very heavily. While we arn't stationed at a forward operating position, working military hours, while still maintaining a home life, is extermely stressfull in its own right. Hence, a lot of smoking. If that day comes when a message is sent out that smoking is punishble under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, there will be hell. At least for a little while.

But, like many have already stated, we are not civilians. You sign your life away to the government so they can pretty much make whatever standards they want.

While it is true that you are not civilians you are still citizens and the citizens should all be afforded the same rights and if anything the military should have more rights than the average citizen.

Buy stress relief balls. Cigarettes aren't the only thing around to take the edge off. If you honestly say there will be hell if cigarettes are banned, then all those service men and women have bigger problems than stress. Congratulations, you're all addicts.

Its not your way to take the edge off maybe but what is to say that you have the right to tell others how they relieve stress. Education is always the answer… not force.

Stress relief balls...?

If it was as simple to quit as you're making it sound, then no one would smoke. I'd like to see everyone smoke free, I don't smoke. But I understand that nicotine is very addidctive, and it'll take a drastic measure to create a smoke free military.

Also even if that drastic measure was taken it would still not be 100% smoke free… the only thing it would do is create criminals.

I think it would be because people are scared. Scared of consequences they shouldn't have to face when smoking a doob to relax. So they'd be more likely to turn to cigarettes when stressed because it's within the law and acceptable in that sense although it could destroy their life and the lives of their loved ones.

It's definitely ass backwards. This kind of thinking gets me angry with the world I live in because it's sickening to know the Government will support something as hazardous and life threatening as Tobacco (which is proven to have lethal capabilities) but they themselves are scared of pot (which is proven to have medicinal capabilities) .

Selfish Selfish Governments, FOR SHAME!

Mire you are a smart lady <3 No matter what kind of smoke it is you breath into your lungs it is damaging, there's just no denying that fact.

All smoke is bad but from the same token as weed is tobacco really dangerous if you use natural leaves through a vaporizer?

I've given up posting my thoughts because I've found that on this forum, it's a fucking waste of time. 30 minutes of research, writing, formatting and double checking end up with responses that are the intellectual equivalent of "NO, YOU!"

So I've given up, and instead choose to simply give the most minimal response that reflects my feelings. Hey, if the rest of the internet can do it, I can too.

In case the Soviet National Anthem was too subtle a point for you, I think that the President's policies are taking us down the road of socialism, a direction I believe is wrong and stands in stark contrast to the principles of rugged individualism on which this country was founded.

Less Socialism more towards Fascism but I agree.

All and all my basic point is this. The people who actually fight for our freedoms should not be forced to go without any of them because unlike most of us they have earned it. Beyond that if it is too expensive for people to smoke and have government sponsored health care in the military what hope is there for normal people once health care reform happens in this country. All and all… I am more or less in shock as to the responses I have seen in this thread and I think you all may need to get a little perspective as to what it means to have civil liberties.

I mean how would most of you feel if the government stepped in and said being fat is bad for you and video gamers tend to stay inside and be less active so therefore all video games are banned. The argument from a financial perspective is just about as valid seeing as fat people are much more likely to suffer from “natural” diseases. I bet the tone of this argument would be far different.

 

[Acutie]

People will never stop smoking. The education is there and education is not the answer. That would be too easy. The only way smoking will stop completely, is to do something to make everyone value themselves and their body. So many people don't give a shit and it is a real shame because it is those people that will create issues when it comes to providing great things like medicare to everyone. As I said before, your own stupidity shouldn't be covered under things like medicare and I'd start by drawing the line at smoking.

The big downside to democracy and all our freedoms and rights. A million tobacco destroyed lungs will get the same treatment as a million pristine lungs. The same goes for fat people and their clogged hearts. Again because some people just don't give care, have no will power or are convinced that it is a disease. The sad part is that the people who truly value themselves and their contribution to their country(AKA Not smoking, Not becoming Obese, etc etc) will see no financial benefit but will live longer more productive lives that cost less to maintain. On the flip side, they will live shorter, less productive lives that cost more to maintain.

This of course is a major generalization and I am not saying all smokers and all overweight people do not contribute because that is totally not true.

 

[Morcheeba]

All and all… I am more or less in shock as to the responses I have seen in this thread and I think you all may need to get a little perspective as to what it means to have civil liberties.

I mean how would most of you feel if the government stepped in and said being fat is bad for you and video gamers tend to stay inside and be less active so therefore all video games are banned. The argument from a financial perspective is just about as valid seeing as fat people are much more likely to suffer from “natural” diseases. I bet the tone of this argument would be far different.

Well now lol.

Okay. So. The Black Market for cigarettes already exists up here and is thriving!! The cost of store bought brands is so high there is a large percentage of smokers buying off the reserves and they've been doing it for years. But in the last couple years the amount of people choosing this avenue over store bought has soared. It'll never go away so why not outlaw cigarettes. Hell at least outlaw store bought, they have more chemicals in them than reserve (that's why reserve taste like horse shit and kill your throat). This will make a lot of people quit, and for different reasons, and because buying from the reserves is illegal what's the difference?

To me it's not a matter of civil rights. If your people are too stupid to heed the warnings then ban it. This is one of the few things they can apply that method to, because lets face it they can't ban fast food.

 

[Dejavu]

People will never stop smoking. The education is there and education is not the answer. That would be too easy. The only way smoking will stop completely, is to do something to make everyone value themselves and their body. So many people don't give a shit and it is a real shame because it is those people that will create issues when it comes to providing great things like medicare to everyone. As I said before, your own stupidity shouldn't be covered under things like medicare and I'd start by drawing the line at smoking.

The big downside to democracy and all our freedoms and rights. A million tobacco destroyed lungs will get the same treatment as a million pristine lungs. The same goes for fat people and their clogged hearts. Again because some people just don't give care, have no will power or are convinced that it is a disease. The sad part is that the people who truly value themselves and their contribution to their country(AKA Not smoking, Not becoming Obese, etc etc) will see no financial benefit but will live longer more productive lives that cost less to maintain. On the flip side, they will live shorter, less productive lives that cost more to maintain.

This of course is a major generalization and I am not saying all smokers and all overweight people do not contribute because that is totally not true.

What is wrong with letting the people who are too stupid to stop smoking or frankly don’t care live with their choices and die? Medicare shouldn’t even exist. The money that comes out of your check in the form of taxes could just as easily go to insurance and if it went to insurance it would be optional and anyone who did not wish to have that option would have to rely on charity or die.

We are not a democracy though in America… we are technically a republic but I guess that point has little merit in this argument. Who cares if dumb people live shorter lives… its their choice. Perhaps if they had to live with the consequences they would accept them. Instead we tell people, don’t smoke its bad for you then after they fuck themselves over we feel it necessary to fix them.

Well now lol.

Okay. So. The Black Market for cigarettes already exists up here and is thriving!! The cost of store bought brands is so high there is a large percentage of smokers buying off the reserves and they've been doing it for years. But in the last couple years the amount of people choosing this avenue over store bought has soared. It'll never go away so why not outlaw cigarettes. Hell at least outlaw store bought, they have more chemicals in them than reserve (that's why reserve taste like horse shit and kill your throat). This will make a lot of people quit, and for different reasons, and because buying from the reserves is illegal what's the difference?

To me it's not a matter of civil rights. If your people are too stupid to heed the warnings then ban it. This is one of the few things they can apply that method to, because lets face it they can't ban fast food.

The problem is that if a black market exists then the laws that typically protect businesses go out the windows. There is no reason for a drug dealer not to sell to a minor because he’s already breaking the law what is just one more. Don’t ban something just make everyone live with the consequences of their choices.

 

[Acutie]

I have a hard time trusting insurance for anything. That does sound good though about letting them die, and actually that right there was the best arguement against medicare I've heard in awhile.

 

[Dejavu]

Insurance isn't supposed to be a credit card where you get all the medical care you want for free... it is supposed to be there to insure you against catastrophe. Because occasional check ups prevent major costs insurance providers should require occasional check ups and pay for them from a preventative care perspective in order to make you as small of a liability as possible but they should be largely out of the game waiting for a time when they are absolutely needed.

 

[Morcheeba]

The problem is that if a black market exists then the laws that typically protect businesses go out the windows.

There would be no reason to protect tobacco companies as they would go out of business =)

There is no reason for a drug dealer not to sell to a minor because he’s already breaking the law what is just one more.

Makes perfect sense what when talking about drugs, but as it stands reserves only sell to those old enough by law to buy tobacco products (obviously not all abide by the law) even though it's illegal to buy off the reserves. Catch 22 for them though.

Don’t ban something just make everyone live with the consequences of their choices.

I do agree with this, but, why? There is no need for cigarettes, none, they serve no purpose. And as much as people want to say they're a stress reliever there are other more healthy alternatives. I pace when I don't have a smoke .. that's sick and I know it! It's a vice though, but I don't get a buzz that makes me giggly or comatose, it doesn't do anything for me except kill some mental and physical craving because I'm addicted.

The only shitty thing I can see from banning cigarettes would be the possible push to ban alcohol. One is no better than the other, except in moderation.

 

[Dejavu]

I do agree with this, but, why? There is no need for cigarettes, none, they serve no purpose. And as much as people want to say they're a stress reliever there are other more healthy alternatives. I pace when I don't have a smoke .. that's sick and I know it! It's a vice though, but I don't get a buzz that makes me giggly or comatose, it doesn't do anything for me except kill some mental and physical craving because I'm addicted.

The only shitty thing I can see from banning cigarettes would be the possible push to ban alcohol. One is no better than the other, except in moderation.

That is your opinion and as you stated it is not an opinion shared by others... so the question becomes why do you feel that you have the right to force your opinion on others.

 

[Acutie]

That will never happen that they would pay for you to get checkups. Again I don't trust insurance, even a little bit. As much as I'd like them to do something like sponsor client checkups on a regular basis, I just can't see it happening. They don't do home inspections to see if there are fire hazards or potential water damage waiting to happen. Usually even if you do use your insurance your premiums go through the roof. Hell just because I'm a guy my initial premium on my car was close to $500 a month. How is a 16 year old or even a 20 year old trying to get his life started expected to pay something like that on top of the actual car payment and gas. Hell, we got broken into an robbed 4 times in the last year and lost over $3,000 worth of stuff, but they wouldn't insure anything because each time there was a break in, they took less than $1,000 worth.

My point being, insurance isn't a credit card I know, it's a safety net that isn't looking out for you in the least. It's a monster, begging for your money and in many many cases, you have no choice but to feed it, and that is why I just can't believe insurance could be a reasonable solution.

 

[Morcheeba]

Pfft and when you die after paying countless years into a safety net you never used do they pass your offerings and safe housing of hard money earned to your family? Where does it all go?

Yeah I do not like insurance companies in the least. Legal mafia if you ask me.

Deja, It is my opinion. I just can't see the benefit being a smoker, I see no other way that's positive. I feel, I feel it should not be an option. One less avenue for society to kill themselves.

And if not for the health of our countries then to keep our governments from sucking more lifeblood from us.

 

[Makelith]

But you are imposing your values on someone else. I don’t smoke but its not my right to pay for things that I want by imposing greater taxes on things that I don’t use. That’s like saying I don’t have a house so I think they should double property taxes in order to pay for better schools. What gives you the right to impose your values on someone else and spend their money.

Because when people smoke they aren't only harming themselves. Its not like someone having a house is going to increase my chance to get a terrible life threatening disease.

Its simple economics.

I voted against the gas tax because i buy gas for my car on a regular basis and would like to not have to pay more. People that only ride bikes and take busses i'm sure voted the other way because they are incurring the benefits without any of the cost.

 

[Dejavu]

That will never happen that they would pay for you to get checkups. Again I don't trust insurance, even a little bit. As much as I'd like them to do something like sponsor client checkups on a regular basis, I just can't see it happening. They don't do home inspections to see if there are fire hazards or potential water damage waiting to happen. Usually even if you do use your insurance your premiums go through the roof. Hell just because I'm a guy my initial premium on my car was close to $500 a month. How is a 16 year old or even a 20 year old trying to get his life started expected to pay something like that on top of the actual car payment and gas. Hell, we got broken into an robbed 4 times in the last year and lost over $3,000 worth of stuff, but they wouldn't insure anything because each time there was a break in, they took less than $1,000 worth.

My point being, insurance isn't a credit card I know, it's a safety net that isn't looking out for you in the least. It's a monster, begging for your money and in many many cases, you have no choice but to feed it, and that is why I just can't believe insurance could be a reasonable solution.

have you ever had health insurance? or are you just going off of the scare stories that all the proponents socialized medicine like to throw at you. I have had health insurance my entire life until about 12 days ago actually because i lost it when i turned 25 have been too lazy to get a new policy lately. I have never been wanting for something. Yes insurance companies exist to make a profit. As such if real competition were allowed to happen between them the prices of health care would come down dramatically. The biggest problem i have with insurance is that there is no ability to shop around because 99% of the time ins is tied to your employment. If insurance was forced to decouple from employers and they would have to have to entice customers to go with them.

Another thing is that i shouldn't have to pay for other people's bad habits. Being a non smoker and willing to from time to time prove that i am a non smoker i should be able to lower my assumed risk and therefore lower my fees to be insured.

Also is something less than $1000 dollars going to bankrupt you... i think not. Its difficult i agree to eat that but you can take the smaller falls on your own without the safety net. Also perhaps in being responsible for the smaller stuff like your 4 break ins you may have learn stuff like not broadcasting that you have a nice stereo in a parking lot or getting an alarm system with a paging system. The alarm i have on my car right now will tell me if my car is broken into as long as i am within a .5 mile radius from it. If your car has been broken into 4 times then you are either extremely unlucky or advertising.

Because when people smoke they aren't only harming themselves. Its not like someone having a house is going to increase my chance to get a terrible life threatening disease.

Its simple economics.

I voted against the gas tax because i buy gas for my car on a regular basis and would like to not have to pay more. People that only ride bikes and take busses i'm sure voted the other way because they are incurring the benefits without any of the cost.

how are other people who are smoking harming you? especially when it is already illegal to smoke in almost any public area. I mean here in phoenix you cant smoke within 30 feet of any doorway to any building... (and its a large ticket) so you see people standing in the middle of the parking lot smoking at times.

 

[Acutie]

Some people are more clever than you would think, and it isn't always you who makes the mistake, it might be someone you live with or something you cannot avoid. As far as I know, at least I'm not advertising. I'm Canadian so I admit I don't know all that much about it and am going on word of mouth for the most part. Still, Insurance = Evil!

 

[Keryan]

People failed HISTORY!!!! Look at the constitution. We banned alcphal, then due to the crime and anarchy had to make it legal again. As for smoking in the military. You try holding a rifle and using stress balls at the sametime. It may be bad for their health, but they are very active. Being active actually helps flush the toxins out. Yes you can still get cancer, but look at the air you breathe. We have toxins floating from the industrial pollution. If smoking keeps the troops calm and able to keep us safe, let them. They are all adults and should already know the pro's and cons. The government is not our mother or father. It should not have to protect us from ourselves.

As for universal health.... I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO COVER IDIOTS WHO USE DRUGS! Guess who benifits the most... thats right...the people who do not care about themselves. It is one thing to provide for the children, pregnant, diabled and elderly. If you can work, then you should be responsible to get your own medical. It costs too much??? Most work places will cover part of the fee. Work on lowering the cost to people who want insurance. Now think of this.... IF everyone stopped smoking... who would be taxes to cover the loss of revenue. This is why it will not be made illegal.

 

[Skaw]

As for smoking in the military. You try holding a rifle and using stress balls at the sametime.

Cigarettes. So smooth, you'll be 100% calm while facing down a hail of bullets. Emphysema and Lung Cancer - the true iron nerves of the United State military.

The government is not our mother or father. It should not have to protect us from ourselves.

This statement is utter failure. When the government is paying you, it can tell you to stop doing whatever it wants you to stop doing if you want to keep being paid.