Theif Dagger questions

[meeze]

Well, I'm about to hit 55 and was just looking around at some dagger options out there.

I'm using Corsair's knife (dmg21, delay 206, att +10) and Hornetneedle (dmg 16, delay 150).

First dagger I see is Kidney dagger (dmg 18, delay 183), which gives crits +5%. That would go in off hand if I was to get it because the dmg isn't that hot, though better than hornetneedle. It is a bit slower than hornetneedle though.

Then I see Darksteel Kukri +1 (dmg 23, delay 194). This would be a main hand, and I'm thinking this would go well when I xp with a SAM or WAR as they tend to build TP pretty fast. For others I'd probably use Corsair's.

Next I see Cermet Kukri +1 (dmg 23, delay 188). I'd use it the same as DS kukri, but might also see it as an offhand dagger if I'm doing a lot of low/0 damage hits. Mostly crabs give me troubles at 54, I'm guessing I'll have the same problem later if I'm xp'n in b. tree.

At 68 there are the two Harpes, raw dmg mainhand daggers. I'll probably get harpe, but may settle for the Hoplites for a while if my funds aren't right.

Am I missing something, or is Corsair's pretty much the best knife till the Harpe set?

Also I'd like some input on what THFs like 70+. I picked my buddy Magno's mind a bit tonight, and have talked to Jag a bit about daggers. He's a more base DMG type so he likes DMG in both hands.

Come on Phraust, I know you got a volume or two on daggers somewhere in your library.

 

[Marajade]

DS Kukri will do better than Corsairs generaly with the higher base damage, allowing for higher WS. Corsairs remains a good weapon to keep around tho, because you can put it in offhand for the mobs where you're hitting 0's (crabs, ect.)

For offhand, while Kidney is good, the +5% only applies to its own hits, not your general %. So its only a 2.5% overall increase, and it wont affect criticals on your WS's

Offhand daggers are generaly for boosting your attack speed rather than for thier attack power, which is why hornetneedle/sciroco win out generaly.

 

[Sneakypants]

Magno is good people, and it sounds like you're on the right track.
Corsair's was acceptable to me until Darksteel Kukri +1, replaced shortly after by Cermet Kukri +1.

At 55, Corsair/Hornetneedle was good. The low delay of the HN made up for the high delay of the Corsair.

Consider Garuda's dagger for offhand at 65. Even if you don't use it for XP, it's a nice thing to bring with if you know you are going to be soloing mage MOBs. That dagger shuts them down pretty good.

When I got to 68, I did use Harpe for a few levels only (granted, this was a while ago and the new daggers and dagger damage update didn't exist). You'll need to decide whether or not 210 delay is still acceptable. When you acquire a good set of haste gear to tp in, I'd say 210 delay isn't worth it unless you are talking P.Harpe. It also depends on your offhand. If you have 200 delay + in main hand, you will want something 178 delay or faster (reads: Misericorde +1, Blau, Sirocco).

Combos I have heard people have enjoyed:
Harpe or P.Harpe/Blau or Sirocco
Behemoth+1/Sirocco or Blau
Blau/Sirocco or Mis +1

Can't think of anything else off the top of my head right now...

 

[Vasage1]

Combos I have heard people have enjoyed:
Harpe or P.Harpe/Blau or Sirocco
Behemoth+1/Sirocco or Blau
Blau/Sirocco or Mis +1

P.Harpe/sirrocco 4tw

At your levels though, i went with the Darksteel +1 and eventually Cerment+1. Never touched the lvl 68 harpes, i personally liked the speed of Cerment+1/Hornetneedle. Later on when i got my P harpe and was still getting TP fast enough to make me happy, so the delay doesnt bother me much, and i still got a nice 37 dmg dagger in my hand. (For awhile i was using Sirrocco/Hornetneedle lol, Sirrocco isnt the best dmg weapon or anything, but it was fun )

 

[Zethren]

What everyoen said above I agree with(skimmed through it). But remember one thing it mostly depends on your SC partner.
If you have a SC partner and you are getting TP way faster than him becuase of your low dmg low delay dagger setup then I think it might be a good idea to switch to a high delay high dmg. You getting 200 TP by the time he gets 100(ofcourse he sucks) seems bit of a waste to me. In those Situations your overall DOT may benefit with high delay high damage Daggers.

Ninja Edit: Don't overlook Chicken Knife! That shit rocks such a fun dagger and comes in very handy when fighting raptors which I think you do around those levels.

 

[Necrosis]

pharpe or blau/sirocco works lovely.

btw, i before e except after c (gg title)

 

[Khajit]

Mainhand. highest dmg dagger possible.
sub weapon: highest dps possible

Since your 55ish i'd say offhand hornetneedle.
If you can afford chicken knife which is cheap as hell compared to old prices atm get that.
Chicken knife is extremely useful in pullling if you utilize the flee proc for getting to the next mob and sometimes for getting away from it.

Garudas dagger is very nice as well. At the very least get it for soloing mages later. On a windsday you can tear through anything that casts spells.

At 68 you can wear anything from the harpe line. Before the dagger upgrade dual wielding 2 hape type daggers would have been what we call "being a dumbshit". After the update theyre such a boost in dps you can discard the other daggers you were using.
If youre so inclined try to get a sirroco kukuri when youre or near lv 69. The NM is annoying as hell to get to and theres no way youre gonna kill it without help but any thf that looks at it or uses it can say it was worth it.

Everyone else prettmuch summed up lv 70+ dagger easily.
perseus harpe>blau>stylet for mainhand as far as effectiveness goes
off hand: sirroco> all then I suppose blau if you're rich or miersicorde+1

note: X's knife has a huge amount of potential but you would need capped crit merits ect. it gives an extimated 30% bonus to crit damage. I'm sure you know what sneak attackand trick attack count as. I'n theory it also gives you the option to use evisceration more if you somehow endup with over 150ish tp. (evisceration increases your crit percentage as you get more tp now)

 

[Lavi]

After the update with the TP floor gone, I'd go for the highest base damage in main hand (unless the delay is extremely high) and best DPS in off-hand except when the base damage of the off-hand becomes so low, it hits for repetitive 0's. I had problems on crabs mainly when I was on the low side of the party and on the mobs in quicksand caves (mostly WAR/PLD types). Although the harpe type daggers have a huge delay, the base damage is very hard to overlook. The DPS of Harpe (hoplites is 3 base damage lower) is pretty high and has the highest base damage for its level and I believe to 75 unless you can get a P.Harpe. If you can afford a Blau Dolche at end levels, it's an extremely good weapon for main hand (latent effect: 33 DMG under 100% TP and hidden effect of +5 acc/+18 att) which for the low delay of 178, it's far better than that of any of the 68 harpes. Stylet seems pretty good, but I'd prefer the Blau Dolch any day. Sirocco Kukri is a good off-hand dagger if are able to camp for it/obtain it.

Edit: Forgot Behemoth's Dagger and HQ. Those are nice for the attack, but I wouldn't bother getting it unless I planned on getting the HQ and I didn't have a harpe.

 

[Necrosis]

Everyone else prettmuch summed up lv 70+ dagger easily.
perseus harpe>blau>stylet for mainhand as far as effectiveness goes
off hand: sirroco> all then I suppose blau if you're rich or miersicorde+1

Gonna have to say no on that one.

 

[Marajade]

Gonna have to say no on that one.

Gonna have to say yes to that one, because once you have P.Harpe Blau goes to offhand.

 

[Khajit]

Gonna have to say no on that one.

gotta say yes to that cause if you got the dedication to have a pharpe you got the dedication to have obtained a blau altready meaning blau offhand.
so pharpe>blau

 

[Zethren]

Necro has both. Do some tests man, numbers speak better than words.

 

[Marajade]

Necro has both. Do some tests man, numbers speak better than words.

Necro has no P.Harpe

 

[Zethren]

Necro has no P.Harpe

Really? I thought he said he did. Oh wells ;/

 

[meeze]

anyone messed with x's knife? Doesn't look like it would replace anything, but looks like a nice e-penis piece to have.

 

[Necrosis]

I'd still use blau/SK over pharpe/blau.

You can't question the DoT of blau/SK, whereas pharpe is more of a combo I'd use for epeen numbers.

 

[Demonknightx]

I'd still use blau/SK over pharpe/blau.

You can't question the DoT of blau/SK, whereas pharpe is more of a combo I'd use for epeen numbers.

although with the amount of haste you have on your char now, necro
(i know you got homam.. dusk... ect ect)

do you think it would cap somewhere? if you had haste spell on bard haste on i mean. then maybe pharpe/blau would be interesting to test, since the haste would more affect the higher delay.

It would depend on how much haste tho, and where the haste cap would hit blau/SK.

blau/sk rocks tho, thats what i use =P

 

[Rorion]

Bd/Sk is totally insane, it's the way to go ^^b
(Set a day Sneaky btw, hehe.)

 

[Sneakypants]

Hmmmm....Now?

 

[Leester]

Made some calculations with some endgame daggers and if i don't make any mistake... ... here are the results:


Dagger 1 // Dagger 2 // DPS DWII // DPS DWII with Suppanomimi

Perseu's Harpe // Blau Dolch // 12,73 // 13,53
Blau Dolch // Sirocco Kukri // 12,7 // 13,49
X's knife // Blau Dolch // 12,48 //13,26
Jambiya // Blau Dolch // 12,29 // 13,06
Blau Dolch // Stylet // 12,11 // 12,87
Behemot Knife +1 // Blau Dolch // 12,11 // 12,86
Blau Dolch // Misericorde +1 // 12,1 // 12,85
Blau Dolch // Misericorde // 11,73 // 12,47
Behemot Knife // Blau Dolch // 11,61 // 12,34

It's just the DPS based on the damage of the daggers, this calculations doesn't count the "additional effects" like the "wind damage" or the "Increases Critical Hit Damage" etc etc ...