thf question: +steal

Demonknightx

Demonknightx

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Demon Knightx
to sum it all up... does +steal *really* make a difference?

i can think of 2 quite obvious reasons for the question:

1) Does it actually increase chances of stealing an item? Because it seems /thf's in a situation like dynamis get just as many coins as a regular thief does. (just an example)

and

2) Does it affect Aura Steal at all? Chance to absorb and chance to dispel?

The reason for my question is that i have all the +steal gear you can possibly equip at one time, for a total of +18, and i have yet to notice even the slightest difference.

does anyone have any information on this?
 
Well... Stealing an item is checked before stealing a buff so +steal gear in theory is a bad thing for aura steal even if it did in any way help it(provided the monster has anything to steal).
As far as the steal + gear thingy. Most +1 to a JA/jt/ect stuff that SE makes tends to mean 1% so chances are you wont have enough steal+ gear to ever notice outright thanks to the randomness of dumb luck.
 
you would think +18% tho, would make a bit of a difference.

And there are mobs out there, alot of mobs really, that you cant steal any item from. in that case would it be good to have +steal gear?
 
I dumped all my steal gear. It doesn't seem to increase success on beastcoins or Dynamis currency at all. Plenty of times I go to Dynamis and there is a THF in full steal + equip that fails to steal a single coin. They don't understand why someone with 0 steal + equip on might steal 2-3 coins in a night. There is nothing to understand.

Back in the day, before they nerfed steal, it did seem to help. Since then, it doesn't seem to help one bit.

As for Aura Steal, it's a great thing to have as far as being able to dispel, but the buffs you get if you should absorb them are generally worthless or don't last long enough to be worth much. Not worth bothering with extra steal + equipment. Some THFs say they full merit Aura Steal as well. That's a waste of time. Even for solo. If it reduced the timer, that's another story. I still wouldn't merit it more than once, however.
 
on the contrary, i find absorbing effects really useful. Particularly out in the Colibri merit camp. On the occasional Wivre mob, it uses a self-buff called Boiling Blood (or something like that) that grants the effect of Berserk and Haste.

I absorbed it, and as THF/WAR i used my own berserk. it stacked and i had nearly 800 attack (770 ish? if i remember right?) and 92 defence.

I figure since its gunna dispel, you might as well absorb it. So i got aura steal level 2 to test the improved absorb rate.
 
While absorbing buffs is NEVER a bad thing, comparing additional absorb rate (of buffs that are not that worthwhile or do not last very long), to the effects of other merits, I find it to be a complete waste of time.

I went Assassin's Charge 1, Feint 3, Aura Steal 1, Ambush 1.
If suddenly SE expands the amount of merits we can put into tier 2 merits, I will max out Ambush, and start in on Assassin's Charge. Aura Steal increases would be the last thing for me.

If I went THF/WAR to merits, Ambush wouldn't be as useful. I wouldn't want to take hate. However, I prefer to remain more flexible, and the additional accuracy is of more value than a random buff, at a random camp, that doesn't help much.

If you're THF/WAR and toss up Berserk, eat meat, steal an attack buff and hit 800 attack. Then you pop out a decent WS and the effect leaves you. Way too specific. That doesn't appeal, as it doesn't cater to any constant factors or averages.
 
This one, IMO, is completely up to the user, with 1 in feint and 1 in aura, you are just as effective. Feint, you never really need to do it more than once every 10 mins. Same with aura, you gain the potency and all that is needed via dispel on the first merit, additional absorb is the converse to the recast timer.

Assuming 1 in Aura and 1 in Feint, making you near fully effective for any sort of endgame scene, you have 4 to play with. Comming down to, a) do you wanna have a larger ws 5 mins faster, b) do you wanna drop a mobs eva 4 mins faster, c) do you wanna have a free peacock charm when standing from behind, or d) do you wanna steal 60% of the buffs.

You can argue situations all you want, but in the end its really what you do more and how you play. Feint is Amazing, its becomming a Thfs 2nd role and giving us a clear spot in HNM settings, so like sneaky, I had 3 merits in it.. but never did I need them. The only mob I've ever feinted twice was JoL. In exp the mobs die so fast, and hardly ever are so evasive that its needed. This being said, for reference, I am currently 1AC 2Ambush 1Feint 2Aura
 
And also, on SE's part anyways, i think this was a way to make each job more customizable, instead of every thf being the same at max merits. Because i see Ambush as being a complete waste in comparison to the other merits. +3 acc compared to 2minutes off feint, 2.5 minutes off AC, or +20% buff steal seems very, very insignificant. Granted 3 merits in Ambush grants +9... *only* from behind... also depends on each particular thief.

I solo. alot. im not involved in much endgame. therefore stealing a buff is a lot more appealing than a +3 acc that i'll hardly use. So, to each his own.

i just wish +steal gear was useful. jeeze.
 
I'd agree you don't NEED any of it.
They're all extras to begin with.


Demonknightx said:
I solo. alot. im not involved in much endgame. therefore stealing a buff is a lot more appealing than a +3 acc that i'll hardly use. So, to each his own.
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You mentioned a merit situation, hence why I brought it up.
 
Sneakypants said:
You mentioned a merit situation, hence why I brought it up.
Click to expand...

true, and yea in that case i can see where ambush would be useful. guess i kinda lost track of what situation i was talking about.

Though i think all thfs can agree that Feint is probably the most useful on the list. How many merits to put in can be argued, but overall i think its the most useful.
 
These are not in any order but just what I'm remembering to address and putting them there as they come into my head.

1. I disagree on the Feint timer not being a factor. The point isn't to use it twice on 1 mob but when I merit on THF it's nice to have it every 6 minutes because it's very effective on Infiltrator's, Skoffin's, Lurker's and any other higher mob. It is a tremendous help holding up a chain and there is many times it was needed sooner then 10mins, 6mins is great if I could put it down to 2mins using every merit in it I would. It's also extremely nice to have every 6mins when soloing, and yes demon I agree it's by far the best thing for THF to merit no one will argue that.

2. I'm curious sneaky when and how did they nerf steal? I've never heard of such a thing as steal being nerfed. (I'm not being sinicle. (sp?) I've just never heard of that lol)

I thought I had more to say but apparently not lol.

Now I don't know what you guys are going to think of this but I do have a tidbit for you call me crazy call it what you want but I have noticed from my years of Dynamis and I also used to steal gold beastcoins back in the day that if you run past the mob NOT engaged and as you are passing him you use steal my rate goes way up.

Laugh it up or whatever but it's worth trying. I know when I do it, it works. Kinda like when I accidentally time it perfectly when the mob is turning and I steal seems like the rate goes up much higher but that is almost impossible to test because it's on accident when it happens that way. lol

Just a tidbit take it or leave it. Secret I've held for a long time. I told Scwall (Dowzer) about it don't know if he's tested it out or not.

P.S.
As for the whole does +steal help I think it would I don't see how it wouldn't it says +steal on it. However I am a FIRM believer that the timing of your steal and the technique of it is what matters most when stealing.
 
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Blancho said:
2. I'm curious sneaky when and how did they nerf steal? I've never heard of such a thing as steal being nerfed. (I'm not being sinicle. (sp?) I've just never heard of that lol)
Click to expand...

That happened shortly after several bots were stealing/hiding platinum coins from the same MOBs repeatedly in Newton. Not exactly sure when that was but I'm guessing almost 2 years ago now.
 
That just made it so you cant steal twice off the same mob or what? (I do remember something about that now)

P.S.
Adding this link it also says that stealing behind the mob "seems" to increase the effectiveness of steal. Which shows what I feel that technique and timing increases the rate. Anyways that's my experience. (Read above for my technique.)

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Steal
 
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Capped feint is a no brainer; massive evasion down for half a minute or so every 6 minutes is far more useful than any of the other group2 merits THF has access to. From there, it really doesn't matter, and is purely up to the THF. I used to have capped AC before Feint, but demerited it when I realized it was pretty worthless; I still suggest putting one merit into it. I have another in aura steal just for the dispel part, it's nice for soloing certain things. But yeah, basically, the absorb rate is pretty pitiful and I'm not even sure steal+ gear would improve the rate at which you absorb a buff, anyway.
 
Necrosis said:
Capped feint is a no brainer; massive evasion down for half a minute or so every 6 minutes is far more useful than any of the other group2 merits THF has access to. From there, it really doesn't matter, and is purely up to the THF. I used to have capped AC before Feint, but demerited it when I realized it was pretty worthless; I still suggest putting one merit into it. I have another in aura steal just for the dispel part, it's nice for soloing certain things. But yeah, basically, the absorb rate is pretty pitiful and I'm not even sure steal+ gear would improve the rate at which you absorb a buff, anyway.
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We all know Feint is a no brainer. My question is why recommend having 1 in AC if it's pretty much worthless. To me if AC is worth putting 1 in it at all wouldn't you put full merits into it to give it the lowest timer so you could increase your DoT. Same with aura steal if your going to use that with soloing why not merit it fully for the best possible success rate. To me you would decide between those 2 as for what you would want and merit it the highest. As for ambush it seems pretty worthless since even in merit party's your behind the mob only 50-80% of the time and maxed is only +9acc +9rng acc and completely worthless for soloing which the other 2 can be useful during soloing.
 
Should've clarified, it's somewhat worthless to fully merit it***. 1 merit in AC is nice for the extra WS damage on certain things, further merits really don't help a whole lot, considering the massive recast time and the nature of the ability. Also, I don't see the point of capping aura steal when the buffs you steal rarely last longer than 30 seconds (if you get lucky and absorb at all). Aura steal's really only effective for one thing--dispelling.
 
Necrosis said:
Should've clarified, it's somewhat worthless to fully merit it***. 1 merit in AC is nice for the extra WS damage on certain things, further merits really don't help a whole lot, considering the massive recast time and the nature of the ability. Also, I don't see the point of capping aura steal when the buffs you steal rarely last longer than 30 seconds (if you get lucky and absorb at all). Aura steal's really only effective for one thing--dispelling.
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I see your point in AC nice for HNM's or gods or whatever. We all pretty much know that AS is only good for dispel but if you think it's useful for soloing to be able to dispel then why not give yourself the best chance to do it, since when soloing if you need dispel you NEED to dispel. lol
 
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Blancho said:
I see your point in AC nice for HNM's or gods or whatever. We all pretty much know that AS is only good for dispel but if you think it's useful for soloing to be able to dispel then why not give yourself the best chance to do it, since when soloing if you need dispel you NEED to dispel. lol
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The answer to that, is meriting Aura Steal more than one time takes away from things that make more sense, more of the time. Even if you mostly solo.
 
+steal sucks, its definatly not +1% per, or i would get more coins in dynamis...and i have all steal gears except the fagger from sky. It may affect aura steal, hard to check, but aura steal is essentially useless. Also i noticed i stole less coins in dynamis when i had aura steal..
 
Blancho said:
I see your point in AC nice for HNM's or gods or whatever. We all pretty much know that AS is only good for dispel but if you think it's useful for soloing to be able to dispel then why not give yourself the best chance to do it, since when soloing if you need dispel you NEED to dispel. lol
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I'm pretty sure further merits don't increase the rate at which you successfully dispel (which is near-100% on most mobs in my experience); rather, it increases the rate at which you absorb the buff in question.

Mdkuser said:
Also i noticed i stole less coins in dynamis when i had aura steal..
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Stealing items seems to check before dispelling/absorbing a mob buff. Simple way to test this, go fight lizzies until they use secretion, and try to AS it. Lizard eggs are incredibly easy to steal from this monster, and you will steal lizard eggs over dispelling/absorbing secretion 99% of the time.

Stealing coins in dynamis is so random anyway, I can steal six in two hours, and then the next run not get a single coin ;(
 
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