Thief Question, you thoughts

mastershake

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How you all doing, I've been playing blm for quite some time now. Over the past few weeks it's starting to get well.... a little boaring. I have leveled many jobs, The other that I turely enjoy is thief, But im not a huge fan of nin (nothing against them, just not my cup of tea) thiefor i quit thief sometime ago.

I'm interested in trying it out again and have done some research on the current thief trends. One trend i'm seeing alot of talk about (just not here) is the use of /rng over /nin

Now i'm very aware of the pros and cons of each sub and the abilities i will gain and lose. With the /rng tho I'm liking the idea of faster tp gain, who wouldnt?

But I would like the opinions of the members of this server (cause ill be pting with you) keep in mind tho that i will have several sets of equipment on me and in no way will ever be gimp equip wise.

So your help would be appreciated :)

p.s This is not a /rng sucks or /nin rules thread or vise versa I would like thought out discousin between the 2 choices, Thank you
 
mastershake said:
How you all doing, I've been playing blm for quite some time now. Over the past few weeks it's starting to get well.... a little boaring. I have leveled many jobs, The other that I turely enjoy is thief, But im not a huge fan of nin (nothing against them, just not my cup of tea) thiefor i quit thief sometime ago.

I'm interested in trying it out again and have done some research on the current thief trends. One trend i'm seeing alot of talk about (just not here) is the use of /rng over /nin

Now i'm very aware of the pros and cons of each sub and the abilities i will gain and lose. With the /rng tho I'm liking the idea of faster tp gain, who wouldnt?

But I would like the opinions of the members of this server (cause ill be pting with you) keep in mind tho that i will have several sets of equipment on me and in no way will ever be gimp equip wise.

So your help would be appreciated :)

p.s This is not a /rng sucks or /nin rules thread or vise versa I would like thought out discousin between the 2 choices, Thank you

I would go for /nin, I'm not a Thf but /nin seams perfect for Thf.

/war is another option open to you, and ive been reading the Gamefaqs fourms and someone posted a topic about thf/sam and they said it works pritty good too... o.O Dont know if its true or not, but as a say im not a Thf, i'll try and post the URL of that topic for you.

/nin in my opinion is your best option.
 
Thief

Thief is so versatile.... You can sub practically any melee sub and it works.

/rng You will get decent TP gains although post 60 I have no clue how much damage each ranged attacks will do.

/nin Seems to be standard, not only for dual weild but also for status enhancements from the offhand weapon. Just dont off-hand a Greed Scimitar.. Ive only seen nasty results in tp gain.

/war Great for attack boosts, although you need a lot more acc+ to make every single swing count.

/sam Who doesnt like Meditate and being able to WS with almost every single SATA?

/drk My absolute favorite for 60-66 or so.. Try it. Like /war you will need lots of acc+ to make each swing count but hey... SA + TA+ SE + LR + DE = well over 1k+ damage.

I know it was between /rng or /nin but anything almost can work.
 
Yea, i agree with alot of melee's being possible subs for thiefs. Thats why before i hit lvl 60 with it (57 right now) im getting as many of the melee's to lvl 30, just to test out and see what works.

as of right now, i got nin at 31, monk at 34, war at 30, and sam at 30. and now that u mention /drk, thad be kinda fun too. andmy rng is only lvl 21 T_T so i needa do some catching up with that ><

not to mention getting my +acc gear... saving up for a scorps right now, and im thnking about getting snipers too....in the future.....sometime.... ><









gimme all your gilorz :evil:
 
Thanks for the replies


Now heres another question for you 2 just so I could get the general feel of the idea. If you was making a pt and saw me seeking with /rng equiped, would you invite or seek another atlernative?
 
My thf is at 34 right now. Normally I sub nin to it, but one day I decided to try /rng, so I could focus more on ranged attacks than melee. If you put your all into it, /rng will give you better DoT at the expense of some downtime.

Going /rng, obviously the biggest scores are the Accuracy Bonus trait and Sharpshot. If you plan to spend the money on good ranged weapons & ammo (at this level, I'd recommend a crossbow & holy bolts), you'll make very good use of the 60 seconds provided by Sharpshot. However, you will be sacrificing an offhand weapon which could provide useful stats (i.e. Hawkers knives). You will also need to be careful on the pulls, as fast-moving mobs will catch up to you and try to rip you a new one.

Going /nin, you will not have the higher inherent Accuracy or Acc-related JA's. You will have the ability to off-hand stat-enhancing weapons. Your TP gain will be somewhat slower. In my experience, however, the biggest bonus to /nin is shadows. These are fantastic when you're pulling, as it'll save you anywhere from 50-300 hp and the healers will not have to spend as much MP on you.

I would recommend /nin. I wanted to stick with /rng myself so I could maintain a higher DoT, but I've found that using good sushi will almost parallel the accuracy trait & Sharpshot effect. I know we all want to be as big as we can on the parsed damage output, but the mp-saving shadows are (in my opinion) worth more to my party than the extra 50-150 dmg every fight.
 
A few thoughts.

60+ Even with sushi and +RACC gear you will miss alot, slowing tp gain.

With the +RACC gear you have to equip to stay competitive, you will be sacrificing on DEX/AGI gear.

With /NIN I can get 100+ TP in 30-45 sec every fight (yes with haste).

The two most viable subs are /NIN and /WAR IMO, but that does not mean that /RNG can't be done somewhat effectively for awhile.

For the record:
THF:66
NIN:38
RNG:31
WAR:20

Yes I have tried all three :)
 
crap ; ; looks like ill have to lvl nin after all.

Thanks for the help, was appreciated, so you all in game (at some point in time)
 
Nin is a must in some circumstances. Raptors, manticores, coeurls come to mind.

I would hesitantly ask a thf/rng to party for the same reason I'd be more likely to leave a sam/rng in Jeuno. When push comes to shove, such a player is more likely to simply have a hardon for being different while they're honestly just being flat-out bad. I'd rather not take my chances with a player given my experiences with "alternatively subbed" people.

If you do lfp as a thf/rng, I'd better see that you have war and nin leveled. I'll be asking you what ranged weapon you use. If your ranged weapon doesn't cost over a hundred thousand gil and have some sort of racc on it, I'd say good luck with that. Thus, you'd better take it seriously if you're going to step out on a limb.
 
Peregrine said:
Nin is a must in some circumstances. Raptors, manticores, coeurls come to mind.

I would hesitantly ask a thf/rng to party for the same reason I'd be more likely to leave a sam/rng in Jeuno. When push comes to shove, such a player is more likely to simply have a hardon for being different while they're honestly just being flat-out bad. I'd rather not take my chances with a player given my experiences with "alternatively subbed" people.

If you do lfp as a thf/rng, I'd better see that you have war and nin leveled. I'll be asking you what ranged weapon you use. If your ranged weapon doesn't cost over a hundred thousand gil and have some sort of racc on it, I'd say good luck with that. Thus, you'd better take it seriously if you're going to step out on a limb.

Im in no way arguing with you and you have a very valid point, just wanted to point this out from my initial post

"But I would like the opinions of the members of this server (cause ill be pting with you) keep in mind tho that i will have several sets of equipment on me and in no way will ever be gimp equip wise"
 
I'm in no way of trying to half ass my job as a thief, Just since the time i quit thief alot has changed so I'm attempting to relearn and learn whats new about the job. I would like the opionions of you all b4 i go out and dump 5 mill or so into a 39 thf/rng and by 40 find out i made a huge mistake thats all but so far the input has been very helpfull
 
<----let's set aside my "rep" so that I may give an opinion.



I am a level 59 THF

I used /NIN up to level 50 and have since used /RNG

I like /RNG better.

I stopped at 59 to level warrior from 15 to 37...I think the double attack + triple attack will suit me quite well.

I find that /RNG does more damage, and /NIN is just an excuse to use Utsusemi and be a lazy puller.

Higher TP gain with /NIN is a myth considering you gain TP Faster with /RNG...although you are shooting constantly and that gets quite expensive.

I honestly thought /WAR was the worst of the 3 main subs for THF (NIN/RNG/WAR) but now I seem to think it may end up being the best.

More to come.
 
64 thief and I have a fair amount of experience subbing things besides /war, so I believe I can give good advice from experience.

First off, /nin. I highly recommand it for any level as a possible sub post 24. But where /nin really shines is 50-59 in my opinion. This is a level range in which you can use bone knife+1 for +5 acc and +5 attk in the offhand at no penalty, and yet the subs /war, /sam, and /drk aren't yet fully developed.

Against raptors in the late 50s-early 60s, /nin is pretty much required not only because the pulls are fast creatures, but fairly longer as well most times in comparsion to the camps.

Warrior, an excellent sub job choice from 30 to 75. This sub easily gives the most overall added dagger damage over time as long as you're hitting ok, although this fact is debatable post 60 and party dependent.

-/15 you get berserk, an ability that needs no introduction, obvious benefits.

-/25 you get Double Attack. Due to double attack, the tp gain between /war and /nin is hardly noticable. /nin is probably slightly faster if any faster. If your concern is tp gain, post 50 /war and /nin are pretty much exactly the same, UNLESS you have a dagger in either hand on /nin that has acc plus, such as the bone knife +1, then it's a slightly larger gap depending on your acc before the +5 is added in.

-/30 you recieve an Attack bonus job trait which I find is the most overlooked part of the warrior subjob. Having around +10 attack stat adds up from that 1,2,3 more damage per normal hit, excluding berserk. This job trait is definitely not a burden for dancing edge either, that's a little more attack 'each' of the 5 hits, attack up+ berserk=noticablely stronger WSs given you dont' have major acc issues.

-Samurai is a situational but very viable sub 60-75. The Benefits are clear, store tp+meditate. Thing is, you won't always need these traits to catch up in tp, thus you'd be giving up valuable things you could actually bother to use from other subs. /sam is useful for when your SC partner is a very good tp gainer. The SC melees I prefer to sub /sam with for more SCs are rangers, samurai, and maybe monks and dragoons(Yes dragoons, acc up trait, harness,snipers, neck piece,belt, +3 jumps), depends if we have a blackmage or not.

/samurai has it's placed for a well prepared thief, but use strategicly. In good parties when you kill something every minute-2:30 minutes it'll eventually cause your meditate recast timer to fall too far behind so here is what I do in decent parties that kill alright.

-Chain 0 fight, gain tp naturally or use meditate before fight if available, since there was a chain 5 all out fight before this one, normally gain naturally.

-Chain 1, use SC+MB, meditate right after WS because there won't be enough time to get that many swings in if the SC+MB is very good.

-Chain 2, from the few hits in the last fight + the meditate, you should be a little bit more than ready to SC once again, meditate as soon as timer is ready to go for next fight.

-Chain 3, Use the tp you get and SC, chances are if your group has had good pace you won't be able to meditate very soon although you could easily do it later in the fight for chain 4, this you shouldn't do so you can have meditate ready at the start of chain 5. Just gain tp the old fashioned way, it's not too bad from store tp.

-Chain 4, finish gaining tp through normal hits and SC as soon as you can. Still, don't use meditate on this one if your goal is chain 5 and you're with a samurai(whom can meditate themselves for chain 5), otherwise use meditate and get ready for chain 5. Gain back as much tp as possible from normal hits

The exception is having a blm, otherwise meditate ASAP because thf+good SC partner+blm of reasonable skill/gear=Most certain chain 5. But if you're with a samurai and no blm, I'll clear that up in chain 5.

-Chain 5

-If you're with a samurai, finish gaining tp then SC, both can meditate then SC again if the SC is a weak one or if you have no blm(although it probably won't be), if you're with a blm you probably have no need for 2 SCs on the chain 5 enemy. The only time you'll really need the 2 SC strategy is if the partner is samurai and there is no blm or even smn to burst.

Darkknight- /10 you recieve attack bonus I
-/30 you obtain attack bonus II, overall this helps a little bit.
-60-75 you can stack SE+LR, VERY handy for a huge SC, which might be very favorable on a chain 5 fight or whatever your chain goal is. Thing is LR+SE is a ton of hate, so someone else will have to pull for the fight you want to SE+LR+SATA(WS) on to safely avoid the chance of pulling hate before SC thus ruining it.

-Done successfully though, as said earlier you can break will over 1000 on dancing edge given 4-5 hits connect.

-The sub has some disadvantages: First off no bonuses in terms of gaining tp, zero, absolutely nothing; Second, may take a little bit more teamwork to pull off properly, although this shouldn't be an issue for everyone; It's true usefulness isn't shown every fight or nearly every fight, it's a once in awhile thing; You'll lose about half your hp and maybe then some from the all out SC.

-Although, in sky there are xp spots in which you xp on arcana based enemies, while not a big deal, arcana killer and arcana circle would be nifty and at least not useless.

All and all though, /drk is fooling around sub in more ways than experience point ways. It can have practical uses post 60, but less than any other subjob.

/rng- This one I have no experience with unlike those others I've tried many several times. The practical aspects of this sub seem iffy at high levels although a thf/rng post 60ish could prove me wrong. I'm guessing the C- or C in archery and the C+ in marksmenship would show by 60 though.

I've read about this subjob before, there is reason to believe when equipped well this sub has the most damage over time for thief midgame, from very low levels into the midlevels of the game. Between SATA, very good rng acc gear, and the ranged attacks, I've heard this job combination reaches overall damage levels passing or barely behind that of a ranger in the 30s and 40s, that's pretty darn impressive to even be close to ranger in the theif job.

I think if you decide to try thf/rng, go with marksmenship though, not archery. For one thing, thf has access to all the good status bolts, I can't start to say how much blind, bloody, acid, and venom bolts will overall help your party, not only in helping your xp parties DDs,tanks, and mages, but solo as well this is an incredible advantage thief has over other jobs. Also C+ in marksmenship is thf's second highest weapon skill, take advantage of that. Even if you don't go /rng, uses status bolts duringpulls with maxed out skill will net you a nice helpful acid bolt-defense down on the pull once in awhile.

I'd imagine the C+ catches up to thief against inc tough++++++++ mobs by 60-75, although you could now use this for pulling and soloing with your maxed out skill.
 
Also, I think /nin loses alot of its edge over other subs post 60.

Ninja doesn't change at all form 50 to 74, and utsusemi ni is really only practical for end game activities and soloing anything, not xping.

All the other subs, war,sam,drk,rng gain traits and/or abilities at 60.

Do I think there is anything wrong with /nin after 60? Of course not, it's a great sub and still works great and always will, but do the other subs gain in ways that make them better for different party setups which have different needs? Absolutely!

Last poster said he's becoming more fond of warrior after 60, I agree completely.
 
Breezed through the replies so bare with me...

I absolutely abhored Ninja... I hated it sooooooo much. In fact It was the solitairy reason I was stunted at level 59 as my thief. I Hated the job so much.

And then......

I went out, choked up my pride and decided to level. Took my war from 15 to 18, then subbed it and headed to the Jungle packed to the gils with ALL Ninjitsu, and a fuckload of Shurikan (That would be an Engilsh fuckload, not a metric fuckload), and went in with the explicit purpose to steal hate form a tank and burn through money doing it. My search comment read somethign like this:

I am a ninja, and I can't tank yet.
Get another Ninja or Tank.
Packed to the teeth with weapons.

And I got into three parties that weekend.

26-27 With NA people having fun, I believe I met Flameass and Onions at this point. We made parties in order to have fun, died a lot, and trained a couple newb PLDs.

27-33 With Svina I think and barreled through it really quickly.

33-38 in like four hours in Garbage Citadel. A little over a level/hour :D

I got so adicted to the job I had to put it away....

Ninja sucks from Lv.1-28...

After that, take a break and relax. You will have fun. I never thought I would like it, but I am actually really looking forward to it now.
 
rng sub is cool because you can get slug shot if you keep your marksmanship capped, but if people wanted you to do slug shot, they'd just get a ranger instead. On top of that, your marksmanship is only C+ and will be missing a lot if you don't load up on an ass ton (a ha!) of ranged accuracy... and even then you still still miss a lot. Even rng will have problems landing sidewinder with all their skill and accuracy gear plus food.

war and nin are the most important subs for all melee jobs in the game, so you really need to make sure both of them are leveled to 37.

How do these subs work for thf?

war = double attack, berserk, attack bonus, warcry. Your ws damage with a war when you use +attack food (like a mithkabob) WILL be higher than your ws damage with nin sub. The only problem is slower tp gain unless you get lucky and get double/triple attack over and over again.

nin = utsusemi, always attack twice. Your ws damage will be less than if you subbed war, and you will probably want to use accuracy food since a kabob won't change your ws damage much by itself. You will gain tp noticably faster, which is great if you've got a sam or rng in your pt. You'll be able to keep up with them. Utsusemi is great for pulling, but it's very hard to skill up evasion with utsusemi from nin sub, but evasion skill up shouldn't really be a concern for an exp party.
 
Wish I had seen this thread earlier. There is an excellent discussion by the numbers of this here.

With /rng's +accu job traits, you will get tp fastest with it. With /war double attack and berserk net you the greatest dmg. Only thing /nin helps with is ws dmg and blink.

For your reference:
/RNG10 : +10 Accuracy/Ranged Accuracy
/RNG30 : +12 (Total 22) Accuracy/Ranged Accuracy
/RNG50 : +13 (Total 35) Accuracy/Ranged Accuracy
 
I've used all these subjobs but this is a hard one to answer. Before thirty /war, /mnk, /nin, and /rng all have their ups and downs.

After that I'd say the market shrinks to /war and /nin due to effectiveness and how many invites you will get. I've heard this changes at sixty. Not sure as I'm not that far.

At forty+ I started using Ninja more and more, and it's now my dominant sub at fifty. There are just so many luscious off-hand daggers 40+ for you to choose from, and the hits you DO take on pulls start hurting more and more.

Not to mention the shiny little beauty called a hornet needle that you could go get yourself to offhand at 45. <3

Then, at fifty I'm leaning towards /war or /nin again. I've seen that +atk is a dmg modifier in VB, and Warrior can help with that. Also, berserk stands to offset my lower atk from sushi. Not that my dmg is lacking, but most of the mobs I've heard about for 50+ xp are beetles/crabs.... hmmm.

Anyway, in closing I will say something else. Warrior was my sub until thirty solid because Thief was my first job. It is in no way gimped during those levels. The good thing about 15-29 for me as my Thief is that I had very good gear I worked hard for, and my 1-h dmg was actually very good.

IMHO- Thief > Ranger until thirty on your typical xp mobs. Sure, laugh away at me.

Edit: Thieves can also equip a nice little beuaty at 45 called the Viking Shield. It's a good counter-argument to some of our off-hand daggers if you want to go warrior.
 
I see noone has mentioned the trailers kukuri. at level 61 it has +14 raac i think and is perfect for thf/rng im guessing. it has a decent damage/delay ratio so you can still do decent sata damage and be able to hit on slug shot ect.
I'm not sure about what ammo to use though so i guess thats up to you.

I'm level 60 right now and at this moment i wish i had a /war sub leveled cause torama are junk and I gain tp slower than a rng from hitting for 0 half the time against em. /nin is amazing for soloing /sneaking around ect but atm i want to be able to look at a ranger tp and laugh like I used to. I hope my anemit fixes that soon.
 
first off.....
i have that exact same design of plate in your sig!!!

as for /rng.... hmmm.... slugshot is fun at level 59.... but utsu is invaluable.....
especially at high levels... 72 inparticularly when you get utsu ni.... thief becomes a solo artist with their naturally sick evasion and dual utsusemi.

back ot the slugshot thing.... its not exactly stackable with SATA.... kinda killing your true purpose.

with /anythingmelee.... you will take dmg on the pull.... dmg on the pull = healer pulling hate = positioning for a hasty sata if screwed.

/war isnt bad though.... just cant afford to be careless.

/sam... meh....
is TP gain that much of a problem that you cant get 100% before SATA is ready to roll again??? ive had times where i got back 100% TP in under 30sec ( <3 triple attack)..... sushi is your friend.....
only thing that kept me from gaining TP at an insane rate was my occasional hits for 0 damage (taru strength).... depends on the mob there.
THF WS aint that super strong without SATA..... so i dont think /sam is worth it....
if you're using /rng for that extra WS.... hmmmm slugshotting when SATA aint cooled off yet might be nice.....
DEFINITELY /rng > /sam

before thf learns slugshot though.... whats the point in /rng???
go /war or /nin
 
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