Things you like to see from a WHM

[Ryuoho]

I started taking up white mage after a short stint as a summoner because I'm actually enjoying it. I don't know why.

But that being the case I'd like to know what you guys like to see out of a whitemage. I think I have a pretty good grasp of things. I have a combined 65 levels on it but nothing above 35 so I'd like to learn as much as I can and QCDN is too great a resource for me to pass up.

This can be about anything, from Haste order, to curing moderation and level. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Bajaratt]

People not dying is always a good one. Know how to cure, because it IS your job and it's pretty noticable when you suck at it.

Haste tank >> slow melee(drk, sam) >> fast melee (mnk, war/nin, thf, drg).

Having all of the -na's and using them without the tank spamming "silenced" or "paralyzed" for half of the fight.

NOT meleeing ever, and staying the hell away from any TP moves unless you're running up for a buff.

 

[Nasya]

Erase is another big one, at 32 you fight a lot of bats and evasion down sucks for any tank, so it is very useful right away... Yes, it is an expensive spell, but it is honestly one of the more powerful spells whm gets imo, and the sooner you have it the better.

as for haste order... rather than go slow vs fast melee like Baj suggested... i'd go Tank > Least accurate melee > most accurate melee... since the melee player with the least accuracy against the monster (usually the one with the lowest level) is going to get TP slower than the one with more acc.

also, obviously, regen is your friend. Keep it up on tank/back up tank at all times

 

[Bajaratt]

Good point about the least accurate melee, but DRK also has the hidden trait: whiff, so it's usually them anyways. Just go a fight or two and determine who is building TP the slowest and then haste them first after the tank. And yes, regen, learn to love regen.

 

[Zaltana]

dont forget the cookies.

 

[Negorissimo]

Sub SMN always. It's the best choice by far.

 

[K. Ishitar]

Keep Bar spells up even if the pt thinks its a waste a lot of people don't realize that it reduces teh duration not resist the actual effect. When a person sees something they think a big result not over time effect.

I would suggest learning the base elements of mob tp moves since blu is out there is a big site on wikipedia that tells you about the element of the moves. Ie use barwatera for cursed sphere, barfira for bomb toss,etc. When you barfira before bombtoss it is noticeable=O

Oh and Smn sub is nice to use, i would only sub blm for escape if there is no blm in the pt and the zone is not close(which it usually isn't).

Auto Refresh, MP Bonus I-II>Conserve Mp Magic AttackI-II

 

[Zyndara]

Haste tank >> slow melee(drk, sam) >> fast melee (mnk, war/nin, thf, drg).

Just a quick note for your infomation on hasting... DRG is *NOT* by any means at all to be considered a fast melee. Delay on great katana is not as bad as the delay on polearm, not by a long stretch. Higher level Dragoons likely have a delay of 492 on their weapons. Unless the sam is using a polearm and then you're possibly looking at the same delay.

Another big thing that will make you a good white mage is to know your enemies and their attacks. In places like Labrynth of O, where the Toramas have a silence and a paralyze attack and use it... often... it's important to know what the attack looks like or have enough of your battle spam filtered so that you can be on top of casting status curing spells. If you have a tank that has to ask you for paralyna on a regular basis, then you're missing something. If you don't know which attacks do what, there's no shame at all in asking so you'll be prepared the next time.

 

[Winklewil]

If you don't put yourself under the delusion that because there is also a red mage in the party, you can pass off your hasting duties altogether, I'll be happy. They'll take care of it when they're the only one who can, but they've got a lot to do ... if there's someone to share the burden with, it makes it a lot easier.

I know that might seem like a given, but you'd be surprised how many WHMs I've come across who consider the presence of a red mage to be a pass to just monitor HP bars, and forget status altogether. Of course, that also means it's not too untoward of you to expect them to take a haste or two when there's a lot of people to give it to.

A few other things:




1) Your bar spells ARE worth it. Oh my God, they ARE. I can't tell you how many times I've been in Crawler's Nest, and heard from a white mage "but barpoison doesn't stop you from getting poisoned..." when I suggested they use them. That's not the point; the barstatus spells reduce the potency and duration of status effects, and the barelement spells reduce damage and give you a small chance to resist an effect outright.

That means, barwater and barpoison against crawlers = a whole lot less damage. Barsleep against mandragoras, barfire against goblins, barwater against crabs ... bar spells, bar spells, PLEASE don't forget you've got them. Pay attention to the elemental affiliations of your enemies' area-of-effect moves. They almost always have one, if they're not purely physical. So many white mages ignore these outright, but they're cheap, fast-casting, and can really defang a lot of TP actions.



2) If people have a damage-over-time effect up, such as poison or an elemental debuff, remove it from those with MP first. The melees can wait, if you give it to them at all. I don't care how much the monk with 1500 HP is whining about his 5-damage-per-tick poison effect ... take it off of your black mage, summoner, red mage, whatever FIRST. They've got to rest. Also, a tick of rested MP is more valuable to your party overall than is removing a particularly piddly DOT effect from that monk. Weak poison effects go away rather quickly on their own, and in the case of melee jobs, it can often be a good idea to simply let them.

If you've got literally nothing better to do, or the poison is particularly strong, then fine ... take it off of the melee. If you're resting, however, or there are MP-classes that have to rest themselves, tell him in no uncertain terms that he isn't your priority. Some people really can't stand to see a status effect of any kind up on them, but just as you wouldn't bother to remove blind from yourself, a weak-to-mediocre poison effect isn't a pressing issue for a high-HP melee. All too often, the following situation will ensue.


Whinydragoon: OMG i haf pzn rmv PLZ!!!

You: (resting, and trying to ignore)

Whinydragoon: OMFG wtf u doin i said RMV PLZ!!!

You: I'm low on MP. I'll take care of it if it's still up when I stand, but it'll wear really fast on its own.

Whinydragoon: WTF u suk at whm n00b.

You: (sigh, give up, and just try to shut him up)


You begin casting poisona on Whinydragoon.
You's poisona has no effect on Whinydragoon.


Whinydragoon: o lol it wore off

 

[K. Ishitar]

Winkle i beat ya to it on the barspells=P

Edit: Also a lesser known fact is that If you cast the bar<status> with the same bar<element> you get a stronger resistance to that spell ie...

Poison

Counter- barpoisonra

Added-barwatera

= stronger resistance and less duration

 

[Winklewil]

Also a lesser known fact is that If you cast the bar<status> with the same bar<element> you get a stronger resistance to that spell ie...

Poison

Counter- barpoisonra

Added-barwatera

= stronger resistance and less duration

Didn't I say that?

 

[K. Ishitar]

You said that the bar status effect spells reduce the effects duration i just mentioned how adding the barelement spell increases the potency i mentione the barspells stuff earlier a bit you went in depth with it=P

Its all good in teh neighborhood

 

[Rones]

Sub SMN always. It's the best choice by far.

Didn't we just have a thread on this recently? It isn't 'by far'. If anything its behind the others, especially pre 50.

An important thing for a whm to do is learn to sneak in mp rest ticks during the fight. For example, fully heal your tank, and try to get at least 1 to 2 ticks of rest. You won't always reach, but you also shouldn't just be standing during the entire fight picking your noise while you wait for something to happen. If you aren't doing anything, sit. Its quick and easy to pop back up in time for a cure if you are paying attention. The faster you can regain mp, the faster the party can get exp.

 

[Bajaratt]

Sub SMN always. It's the best choice by far.

Personally, I hate being /smn, going /blm is just as good and is even better in some situations.

 

[Myrid]

Sub BLM unless there's a specific reason to carbypull or use Aerial Armor. The occasional Conserve MP, ES Aspir, and ES/Sleep/ga are worth much more than 20mp/min from smn auto refresh in most situations. Not to mention warping to whitegate.

Know when to rest and when to be ready to cure. If the PLD has a lot of MP and you're done with hastes/regens, sit for a tic or two. If you have a crappy ninja, you'll want to stand more often to be ready to flash or spot cure5. Good ninjas you'll probably have it easy though. ^^;

Oh yeah, and speaking of flash, don't be afraid to use it if you're low on the hate meter. It's useful for any tank to dodge a hit or two-- it's not just a hate gathering spell. Flashing Whirl of Rage also works wonders.

 

[Negorissimo]

In that thread the results were like this:

SMN: 8

BLM: 8

RDM: 2

BRD: 1

BLU: 1

There were mixed opinions and everyone almost had the two top subs tied. Everyone pointed beneficial attributes of each and why they liked them. Very interesting reading that again.

Although i have all jobs leveled up, I would favor the SMN sub because there is the wait time in between pulls that Auto-Refresh+Refresh Gear come very handy (for me). When not casting Conserve MP doesn't work and I get MP faster healing or standing. It's all about choice.

You guys are correct, i should have said: "Sub SMN always. I THINK It's the best choice by far". ^^

 

[Winklewil]

Didn't we just have a thread on this recently? It isn't 'by far'. If anything its behind the others, especially pre 50.

I never understand why either side of this debate pretends like a consensus was reached, when there wasn't any. There never has been.

White mages who have subbed /blm their entire careers aren't willing to entertain the idea that more MP is probably going to serve them better than the five times in their entire lives they'll be casting escape or sleep in an experience party. To play around with the thought that they might have been with a less-than-optimal subjob for so long isn't a comforting thing to do.

People who decide from the get-go they'd rather sub summoner like to pretend that those five times won't come up at all, that the MP bonus will be noticeable at early levels, and that auto-refresh in any way can match Conserve MP. It doesn't.


If anything, it's up in the air enough to at least come close to an equal choice. I really can't see one being any better than the other, for 95% of a white mage's group functionality. Out-and-about on one's own, I'd almost always go with /BLM, but within parties ...

Honestly, how many times have you EVER seen a white mage being called on to tractor someone in a typical experience situation? How many times has the WHITE MAGE needed to cast Escape? These things are such obscenely rare circumstances, they're hardly worth mentioning.

If someone cast off a piece of equipment that granted the same amount of extra MP that a summoner sub would grant over a black mage sub, in favor of an item that let them make a debuff more accurate every ten minutes, or allowed them to return to their home point at will, they'd be denounced as a n00b.

There's no clear-cut answer on this, which makes it frustrating when hardcore WHM/BLMs and WHM/SMNs try to pretend that there is.

The greatest single argument for WHM/BLM is Conserve MP, in my opinion, which I believe to be potentially more potent than auto-refresh. People who long for that natural one-mp-per-tick Refresh effect don't seem to realize this ... that their black mage sub might actually be better for the salvation of their MP.

The "utility" of black mage, on the other hand, is hardly worth mentioning. In all honesty, those few extra spells that the black mage sub grants are worth about as much to a white mage in a Cape Terrigan party as is that corkscrew and toothpick on Swiss Army knives. You might use it one day, but it would be foolish to let yourself be sold on the knife (as a sub-urbanite in a mall, not an abandoned soldier in the wilderness) just because it has one. Get the knife to be a knife.

If someone decides they want to sacrifice their ability to warp their own way home (one of the best arguments for /blm on a personal level), let them. "Utility" indeed.



In the end, however, I've got to admit that I feel (as a black mage main, so I've got a bias) /blm has the very slight edge, if one is to be granted anywhere. I've got a friend who is fiercely adamant about levelling summoner before white mage, even though his black mage is in the 50s. Neither sub grants enough benefit over the other to warrant that, and if either did, I think it would be black mage. At any rate, unless you're planning on being serious about white mage, they come too close to level either up exclusively for the miniscule boost they'd grant over the other.

He wouldn't hear of it, though ... :/

 

[Rones]

I never understand why either side of this debate pretends like a consensus was reached, when there wasn't any. There never has been.

When no one counters the points made, it is considered to be a consensus.

White mages who have subbed /blm their entire careers aren't willing to entertain the idea that more MP is probably going to serve them better than the five times in their entire lives they'll be casting escape or sleep in an experience party.

Five times...you are kidding right? On my time lvling whm to 75 I would typicaly cast sleep 4-5 times per level and escape once every third or fourth party. It was incredibly helpful in boyada. More mp is meaningless. That's why an elvaan whm is just as effective as a taru whm. When you never use the bottom 400 of your mp tank it doesn't matter if you had 10,000 mp or 700, it would work exactly the same. Max mp is just what we persue when there is nothing else available.

Honestly, how many times have you EVER seen a white mage being called on to tractor someone in a typical experience situation? How many times has the WHITE MAGE needed to cast Escape? These things are such obscenely rare circumstances, they're hardly worth mentioning.

We have had very different leveling experiences. I used both of those a lot in exp situations. It was not uncommon for the drk puller to get himself killed on the way back, leaving me as the only person with tractor. Or parties with rdm/whm and no blm or drk where I am the sole person with tractor and escape. I used it quite a bit in those situations because they were common for me.

Icemage of FFxionline.com sums it up best here:

Eh.. I really don't understand why everyone thinks /SMN is so amazing for XP parties. Of all the viable XP party subjobs for WHM, I think it's the weakest.

/BRD gives Sword Madrigal(22/11), Mage's Ballad(50/25), Advancing March(58/29), and Magic Finale (66/33), plus some Resist Silence.

/BLM gives some MP, Elemental Seal (30/15), Warp (34/17), Conserve MP (40/20), Sleep (40/20), Escape (58/29), and Sleepga (62/31), plus a bit of Magic Attack Bonus if you're magic bursting against undead.

/RDM gives a bit of MP, Fast Cast (30/15, and more at 70/35), Gravity (42/21), Sleep (50/25), Dispel (64/32), plus a bit of Magic Attack and Resist Petrify.

/SMN gives extra MP, Auto-Refresh (50/25), and Aerial Armor(50/25).

Considering how pointless max MP is for WHM, and how expensive and situational Aerial Armor is, I consider /SMN to be easily the least useful of WHM subs.

Also note that /BLU may be situationally useful:

/BLU gives a bit of MP, Pollen (1/1), Coccoon(16/8), Healing Breeze(32/16), Metallic Body (16/8), Headbutt (24/12) and can offer Beast Killer, Undead Killer, Lizard Killer, and/or Magic Attack Bonus traits if the correct spells are set.

 

[Ryuoho]

Well my take on it is, although I'd love to live in that utopia of perfect tanks I don't, in fact I do end up using the bottom of my mp pool more often than not, and that is a taru. /SMN seems to be my best choice at my level range, especially when you consider that I don't get the real boosts to subbing black mage yet. Could it be said that /SMN is best pre 40ish, /BLM afterwords?

 

[Passions]

Every single BAR SPELL! they are not over rated they do help. when fighting mandy keep up barsleep, it not only aids it helping resist it (which rarely happens at that lvl) but it helps with the duration of it so you wont sleep as long. same with barsilence barpara ect.
REGENS!
It bugs the shit out of me to see someone cast cure 3 or cure 4 on someone that wont be taking a large amount of damage anytime soon. regen's save large amounts of mp, they are also god sends with plds. gives you less hate and keeps their hp's a ticken up saving mp and hate.


thats my biggest pet peeves with whm's