Town Hall Discussion: FFXI cheaters on QCDN.org

[Reeve]

Hey folks... there's been a few instances where threads have seriously exploded and its been extremely difficult to sift through 50 pages of comments when they just re-iterate earlier statements and delve into arguments and counter-arguments between members.

So we are going to try something new, a Town Hall discussion.

Here is how it works... I am going to pose a few questions and you are allowed to answer once and only once to the original set of questions and not to other replies. If you delve off topic and reply to other people, I'll delete your post. Simple enough?

Okay then, here is the debate of the week:

a) Should we allow the discussion of the ethics and impacts that hacking and botting has on the game and the industry?

-- I believe we should allow this.


b) Should we allow discussions about how to hack / bot?

-- I believe that would be against the best interests of the community and we should not allow it.


c) How should we handle links to sites that cater to hackers and botters? What if that link is not to a program but to an article of relevance to the community on QCDN.org?


d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?

-- I am leaning towards the analogy of what goes behind closed doors stays behind closed doors. SE has the tools and the ability to ban hackers / cheaters and its their prerogative to take action or not as they see fit.


e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Babj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?

Remember -- one post with clear and concise comments on each (or any of) the above raised points.

We'll leave this open for a week.

Thanks,
- Reeve

 

[Marajade]

a) Should we allow the discussion of the ethics and impacts that hacking and botting has on the game and the industry?

b) Should we allow discussions about how to hack / bot?

c) How should we handle links to sites that cater to hackers and botters? What if that link is not to a program but to an article of relevance to the community on QCDN.org?


d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?

e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Babj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?

A) Discussion is always fine, views are exchanged, ect. Not allowing the discussion of anything is kind of crazy

B) No. If they want that kind of junk, just google for it, dont have that kind of trash here.

C) Much in the vein of B, no linking to places that provide the hacks.

D) Persoanly, I say ban em. They obviously dont care for the impact of thier actions on others, so I dont see why they should be allowed to gain the benifit of a collective of players whom they have no care for. They want to pretend the game is single player, let them be alone.

E) See D. But even in the event of not banning cheaters, which while an apropriate punnishment, not everyone sees that as a reason, as the site isnt the game. But moderators should also support the ideals and standards of the fourm itself. If the fourms stance is that we dont approve of hacks, then our moderators shouldn't be hackers themselves. Moderators are a step above the regular members, and should direct themselves accordingly.


The biggest problem with hacking is that outside bans by SE, there's no reprecussions. All you need to do is say "i'm sorry i wont do it again" and everyone forgives you like it didnt happen. If more people would take the stance to not support those who hack, it'd become stigmatized much more than it is.

 

[Mishaela]

a) Should we allow the discussion of the ethics and impacts that hacking and botting has on the game and the industry?

-- I don't see the harm of this being discussed, as some people who may not see the upsides/downsides of doing such things may in fact just be missing the big picture and/or long-term damage(or good) it can cause not only for themselves, but friends, family, or entire economies/communities. [this is bunched in with the idea of whether things such as religion/abortion/etc should be up for discussion, in which I also say yes.]


b) Should we allow discussions about how to hack / bot?

-- Actually saying how or where would more or less be condoning it, in my opinion, and shouldn't be up for discussion at all. Moreso, I don't think this should be allowed in regards to any online game, in my opinion. Just because the forums doesn't widely specialize in Diablo II or WoW doesn't mean ways/places to obtain hacks for them should be allowed, either. I personally have lost many extremely rare items in Diablo II thanks to hackers, would rather not see such things being promoted.


c) How should we handle links to sites that cater to hackers and botters? What if that link is not to a program but to an article of relevance to the community on QCDN.org?

--Links to hacks/bots sites are no different than discussing it here on the forum, and I hold the same opinion in this regard.

d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?

--If someone hacks, good for them, it's just someone I'll look down on a little more. I don't think they should get a sort of punishment from the site just for that unless they start advertising/explaining the benefits of what they've done.


e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Babj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?

--This depends on what Moderators are here for: Are they meant to watch over posters and act without bias, or are they meant to represent our community as a whole? If the former, what they do shouldn't have an impact on their moderator status whatsoever. If the latter, then simply remove him from power. But then in this regard I always thought moderators should have an occasional rotation to begin with, as after a while some just stop caring about their duties.

 

[Alyada]

a) Should we allow the discussion of the ethics and impacts that hacking and botting has on the game and the industry?

Not allowing this topic as a discussion would be withholding a part of the game to the community. I don’t mean to say that we want hacking to be part of the game, but like RMT, it is. Each and every one of us has an opinion on it, and we should be allowed to discuss it.

b) Should we allow discussions about how to hack / bot?

How to hack and bot seems to be going a bit far. I wouldn’t recommend it on this forum, and not limiting it to FFXI. People want to play their games legitimately on this forum, there are other ways for people to find hacks.

c) How should we handle links to sites that cater to hackers and botters? What if that link is not to a program but to an article of relevance to the community on QCDN.org?

I say this could stand. Considering that it’s not a link to a specific program, but a topic pertaining to one… though, I can see the line drawn here. I honestly don’t have much of an opinion.

d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?

Hackers are not our responsibility, they are SE’s responsibility. We’re not the judge and jury of anything except what is on this website. A person can claim to hack and throw around their e-peen all they want here (unless it gets annoying), I believe it’ll tarnish their reputation and it’s their reputation to fuck up as they see fit.

e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Babj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?

I don’t see why Blabj shouldn’t stay. He’s been a viable member of the community and an excellent mod. He took the chance and he knew the risks. I believe his reputation being destroyed is punishment enough. He lost the respect of many of the moderators and most of the community, and probably many friends along with that. While saying he’s sorry isn’t going to pass for what he did, it would be unfair to unmoderate him for this, considering what I and some of the other moderators have done in anger or done as mistakes.

 

[Calais]

a) Should we allow the discussion of the ethics and impacts that hacking and botting has on the game and the industry?

Of course. Discussion is fine, however, flaming (outside the Flameboard) is not. Any topics like that are bound to have flaming in them, but I'm sure the mods can handle it.

b) Should we allow discussions about how to hack / bot?

We're not even supposed to post emulators and things of that sort, so I don't see why people should be allowed to post any sort of How-To topics on hacks.

c) How should we handle links to sites that cater to hackers and botters? What if that link is not to a program but to an article of relevance to the community on QCDN.org?

Linking to places that provide hacks is not okay. Linking to an interesting read that relates to hacks is acceptable since it's basically just more discussion. Of course, if said nice read just so happens to be on bots.com or whatever, then it's still a no-no.

d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?

We're not SE, it's not our job to punish anyone. We obviously have members that cheat in game, but still come on the boards and are capable of making intelligent posts. Nobody is going to come out and say "Hey guys! I just botted Fafnir!" anyway, so it'd be hard to actually punish anyone. It'd probably wind up with people pointing fingers at each other and accusations flying.

e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Blabj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?

If someone was made a mod, wasn't it because they had good qualities in the first place? I don't think them coming out and admitting to hacking is going to suddenly change that. As far as I've seen, Blabj has been a decent mod, I wouldn't change that.

 

[Pasquale]

a) Should we allow the discussion of the ethics and impacts that hacking and botting has on the game and the industry?

b) Should we allow discussions about how to hack / bot?

c) How should we handle links to sites that cater to hackers and botters? What if that link is not to a program but to an article of relevance to the community on QCDN.org?

d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?

e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Babj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?

A. I don't see a harm in discussion, although it is always going to be the same things: someone hacks, someone supports hacker because he's a hero for being honest (which is such fantastic bullshit), everybody else just doesn't like hacks. Every thread on this topic is going to be exactly the same as the last one.

B. Absolutely not.

C. If it is a relevant article, that isn't about hacking, then a copy/paste would be ok. Any links to hacker/botter sites should be removed.

D. I don't think banning will prove anything. I'd like to think the majority of this community is not pro-hacker, and will be able to move on in the event a hacker is outed. If said hacker/botter keeps bring it up, or tries to teach how to do it, then maybe a suspension or banning would be ok.

E. As long as it hasn't affected his duties, then no, I don't think he should be removed as a mod. I agree with Mish though, "I always thought moderators should have an occasional rotation to begin with, as after a while some just stop caring about their duties."

 

[Halifirien]

a) Should we allow the discussion of the ethics and impacts that hacking and botting has on the game and the industry?

Discussion is fine. It's kind of hard to talk about anything in this game without some kind of reference to the way hacks have affected it. The price of Black Sole jumped up to 40k a stack last week (and is now dropping again), which I assume was the result of some fishbots getting hit by the ban stick. If we can't discuss botting impact, I'd have to keep that bit of auction house trivia to myself.

b) Should we allow discussions about how to hack / bot?

No. Let the would-be botters Google for it.

c) How should we handle links to sites that cater to hackers and botters? What if that link is not to a program but to an article of relevance to the community on QCDN.org?

I'd most likely remove the link, depending on where its leading. An expose on RMT practices is one thing, but an article detailing the latest in fishbot technology would be verboten.

d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?

I'd deal with them on the boards the same way I'd deal with them in-game: avoidance, contempt and/or mockery. I'd allow them to continue posting at QCDN, but I'd have a hard time taking anything they say about in-game accomplishments seriously.

e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Babj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?

MMORPGs are designed so everyone starts on a level playing field (racial stats notwithstanding) and rises or falls depending on how much effort and skill they're willing to put into the game. Cheaters sidestep that in the name of convenience; it's the sort of community betrayal that certainly shouldn't result in retaining their post as a community leader. A moderator who admits to or is caught cheating should lose moderator status, no matter how well they've performed in that position.

 

[Zerayla]

a) Should we allow the discussion of the ethics and impacts that hacking and botting has on the game and the industry?

Yes. Like some people before have said, this can make those that might not be aware of the harm hacking can do and this offers them a chance to have some insight.

b) Should we allow discussions about how to hack / bot?

No. I'm sure there are forums and other sites that support these discussions, and those that are interested can go there to find what they are looking for.


c) How should we handle links to sites that cater to hackers and botters? What if that link is not to a program but to an article of relevance to the community on QCDN.org?

No links to the actual hacks should be tolerated. If someone is looking for a hack, they can google or find their hack somewhere else. Only a link that revolves around question "a" should be allowed.

d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?

As said before, we're just a public forum and its not our responsibility to punish those that do not play legitimately. The only thing we can do, is discourage that any members who claim to hack take their "hack talk" elsewhere. QCDN is a forum which if anything, should support and encourage players to play legitimately, and by having those that hack speak about their choice in a way that might encourage others to do the same, well this really brings down the positive side to this community. Hacking is seen as a negative thing, and we don't need new potential contributing members of the forum to come and see things that would likely make them lose respect for this forum.


e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Babj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?

I'll just say that I agree with how Mishaela posted her response to this.

 

[Tim Wakefield]

d) and e)

I don't recall anyone admitting to cheating until they were banned from the game already, so once they're gone, its kinda a lost cause

 

[Excalibur]

a) Should we allow the discussion of the ethics and impacts that hacking and botting has on the game and the industry?

b) Should we allow discussions about how to hack / bot?

c) How should we handle links to sites that cater to hackers and botters? What if that link is not to a program but to an article of relevance to the community on QCDN.org?

d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?

e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Babj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?

a) Yes, of course we should.
b) Yes, because while I don't believe in it, I believe we should be able to talk about basically anything on these boards, freedom of speach. I don't think that they should be surprised if they get flamed for it though.
c) Same answer as b, let them be.
d) This is not FFXI, so what they do there should not affect their stay here.
e) Yes. Mods are different, they are in a position of power and this being an FFXI board, they should adhere to FFXI's rules. I agree with Hali's post on this one.

If we allow people to speak freely about hacking, then at least you'll know who they are and can avoid them in-game.

 

[Garvin]

a) Should we allow the discussion of the ethics and impacts that hacking and botting has on the game and the industry?

Absolutely. Discussion is one thing. Anything else is another beast entirely.


b) Should we allow discussions about how to hack / bot?

Absolutely not, this is something detrimental to the game, and it should definitely not be allowed, with no exceptions. SOME ITEMS ARE NOT TO BE LUMPED IN WITH THIS, but that is a discussion for another day I suppose.

c) How should we handle links to sites that cater to hackers and botters? What if that link is not to a program but to an article of relevance to the community on QCDN.org?

If the article is of interest, the person can repost it in its entirety, but I see no reason for a site of that nature to be linked.

d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?

This is first and foremost an extension of Quetzalcoatl's community on FFXI. Things being tolerated here represents a very symbolic showing of Quetzalcoatl as a whole approving of it. I do NOT think it should have no reprecussions, however banning does little since, as some have said, people will not admit this until they are banned.
Maybe forcing them into a usergroup with an icon or something... Who knows. ;D


e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Babj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?

See above mentioned points. This site, like it or not, does represent a large portion of the quetzalcoatl community. The needs of this forum don't include a moderator to lose his position for such an act. The needs of the community however do. It is hardly impossible to satisfy both needs, but it will take some effort.

The whole thing is a bit of a sticky issue, I'll admit, but as a community we need to start seeing reprecussions throughout all forms regarding FFXI. Just because this is QCDN, a forum, and FFXI is a game does not mean that the people involved are suddenly different. I don't like to continue to single people out, but Blabj is Blabj, no matter where he goes, and there's no reason his actions shouldn't carry over. If they can't, then we don't deserve to call ourselves a community.

 

[Tyrath]

a) Should we allow the discussion of the ethics and impacts that hacking and botting has on the game and the industry?

b) Should we allow discussions about how to hack / bot?

c) How should we handle links to sites that cater to hackers and botters? What if that link is not to a program but to an article of relevance to the community on QCDN.org?

d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?

e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Babj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?

A) Yeah, nothing wrong with it.

B) No. If anything, letting the site become a place for hackers to discuss their toys would be bad for the image of the site.

C) Links to hacks and stuff shouldn't be allowed. But as others said, something discussing the impacts of it and whatnot like the discussion in question A should be fine.

D) Nothing needs to be "dealt" with. This is just a forum for the game, not a place to punish the hackers. Unless of course they start posting links to all kinds of hacks and stuff..

E) He should stay a mod. Again this isn't the game and people shouldn't be punished here for their actions in the game. A moderator is someone who watches over the forum and keeps everything clean and whatnot. Theres no reason for him to not be able to do that duty now.

 

[neophytal]

a) Should we allow the discussion of the ethics and impacts that hacking and botting has on the game and the industry?

yes, discussion is okay and probably even good for the boards.


b) Should we allow discussions about how to hack / bot?

no, we do not support hackers and the distribution of hacks.. this has always been a policy.


c) How should we handle links to sites that cater to hackers and botters? What if that link is not to a program but to an article of relevance to the community on QCDN.org?

warning via PM and then banning for all i care.


d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?

if proclaimed hackers want to stay on the site, and talk, i really dont have an issue with it. i do however, think they should provide useful things to the board, and not just be arrogant post count whores.. i feel this way regardless of hacked or not since there are alot of "retired" ffxi players.

e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Babj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?

while i dont see banning anyone for it off the board for just hacking in game, i do believe that moderators and people of higher should be setting examples...

this *IS* a ffxi bulletin board, and its everything we are based around. while moderators do have a job to enforce the rules, i can not say it does not seem hypocritical to allow someone to do that job, when they obviously couldnt adhere to the rules in ffxi (the game this bulletin board is based around).

people say he hacked and knew the consequences.. and he even said he knew that he could pay for it.. so its obvious he knew consciously what he was doing.. and should have considered that before doing it over and over.

 

[Trippyhippy]

a) Should we allow the discussion of the ethics and impacts that hacking and botting has on the game and the industry?

-- We all know what happens when you try to censor someone on qcdn

b) Should we allow discussions about how to hack / bot?

-- wether the mods allow it or not, the community wouldn't let it happen. You might find 1 relevant post out of 20 in a thread about hacking. The rest would be nothing but ridicule and insults.

c) How should we handle links to sites that cater to hackers and botters? What if that link is not to a program but to an article of relevance to the community on QCDN.org?

Remove the links to hacks and bots and leave the thread for the wolves.

d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?

Hang and quarter them. Who cares really? No need to deal with them, just don't allow people that break the rules to try to enforce them.

e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Babj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?

You wouldn't elect a criminal to office would you? Oh, wait...

 

[Pascal]

a) Should we allow the discussion of the ethics and impacts that hacking and botting has on the game and the industry?

I see no reason to not allow it, assuming our rules to no hinder discussions for and against it.

b) Should we allow discussions about how to hack / bot?

This one is a double edge sword. Knowledge gained by this can work both ways. It would allow the community members to better understand how various bots works, which could allow them to be spotted easier, what their strengths and weaknesses are, etc. On the other side we are handing that same knowledge to those who want to cheat on a silver platter.

My preference is to not allow it. My reasoning for this is most bot writers will not discuss technical information in a public forum. Most of the posts we will see will be links to bot programs, how to fix/work guides, scripts for bots, etc. None of which is really going to provide value to the people not cheating.

c) How should we handle links to sites that cater to hackers and botters? What if that link is not to a program but to an article of relevance to the community on QCDN.org?


Same as B, allowing linking is only going to lead to linking to the program or indirectly linking to the program. Very little real information of value will show up.


On this note I would like to bring up the Google Ads which are displayed to those not logged in, while I know we have limited control over Google Ads, if we are going to say no linking it does seem odd that we allow ads to Gil Sellers. While there maybe nothing we can do about this, it could be worth while to look into.

d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?

As long as they have not broken any rules here, I see no reason to ban them. I also see no reason to add a rule saying if you admit to cheating you will be banned. They aren’t breaking the rules here or assisting others in cheating in the game, I have no problem.

e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Babj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?

I don’t believe in holding any one given person to a higher standard than another. Mods must follow the same rules as the rest of us and thus far Babj hasn’t broken any of QCDN rules.

An additional issue I see is where we draw the line. Will generally accepted third party tools be accepted (Windower, Fraps, Teamspeak)? An argument can easily be made for and against each. What of other SE rules such as ripping someone off in game, altering and reading game data files?

 

[Uzor]

The other questions have been answered, so I will just answer the last ones

d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?

e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Babj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?

Remember -- one post with clear and concise comments on each (or any of) the above raised points.

We'll leave this open for a week.

Thanks,
- Reeve

d) Does it matter? Just because they hack doesnt mean its right to do a witch hunt and ban anyone found to hack. Hacking doesnt make anyone worse of a person. Besides, if someone is found to hack, the community handles it well enough. If someone was found to hack, what exactly would be the benefit of banning them? Additionally, what would be the so bad about not banning them?

e) Blabj was an excellent mod. That wont suddenly change just because he were found to hack. Why remove someone who do an excellent job?

 

[Sneakypants]

a) Should we allow the discussion of the ethics and impacts that hacking and botting has on the game and the industry?

Yes.


b) Should we allow discussions about how to hack / bot?

No.


c) How should we handle links to sites that cater to hackers and botters? What if that link is not to a program but to an article of relevance to the community on QCDN.org?

Links to hacks should be deleted and the person that posted the links should be punished. Articles are different than actual hacks. If the article is a how-to then it's not much different than question "b".


d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?

Admitting I take a very right wing view of hacking, I believe if we don't do whatever we can to get rid of it, then we are part of the problem simply by allowing it. Hacking is cheating. SE makes the rules and some people seem happy to break them. Problem is, legitimate players suffer because others insist on cheating. I play legit and therefore would love to see all hackers "disappear". They ruin the game and the forum.


e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Babj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?


A cheater is a cheater is a cheater...I don't think one cheater should be dealt with any differently than another. They should be dealt with, and not let go without punishment. Removal of moderator status is more than appropriate. If nothing else, it states that QCDN doesn't believe in cheating. You leave a known hacker with mod powers, and clearly, you're part of the problem. You are doing nothing to dispel that myth either. It's not about Blabj in particular. It's the principle. People, organizations, forums, what have you, are all worthless without principles. It would be nice to see QCDN show some spine and make declarations that clearly speak and act to its disapproval of cheating... Anything else just seems like "I don't wanna deal with it."

Just because someone is nice or does their job, doesn't erase the fact that they are a cheater. What kind of QCDN do the mods and admin really want to present to the community? How the issue with Blabj is handled will answer that question definitively.

To allow cheating or not. It's that simple.

 

[Hmkiroko]

a) Should we allow the discussion of the ethics and impacts that hacking and botting has on the game and the industry?

Sure. I'd say it's definately a big problem in the game right now in terms of balacing between shells at HNMs and warrents discussion.


b) Should we allow discussions about how to hack / bot?
No way. Widespread promotion of it (through unlocked discussion threads) would not be a positive re-inforcement for the server and "acceptable behavior".

c) How should we handle links to sites that cater to hackers and botters? What if that link is not to a program but to an article of relevance to the community on QCDN.org?
I would say it depends on the website, and link in question. Generally, the answer would be no.

d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?
If they want to be black-balled by the general population, so be it. Otherwise, no administrative action should be taken against these players. We are more than an FFXI forum, and they can discuss more topics than FFXI.

e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Babj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?
Tough question. He's doing his job as a mod, but against the opinion of grain of the server in respect to hacking. No opinion on this.

 

[RoM]

Hey folks... there's been a few instances where threads have seriously exploded and its been extremely difficult to sift through 50 pages of comments when they just re-iterate earlier statements and delve into arguments and counter-arguments between members.

So we are going to try something new, a Town Hall discussion.

Here is how it works... I am going to pose a few questions and you are allowed to answer once and only once to the original set of questions and not to other replies. If you delve off topic and reply to other people, I'll delete your post. Simple enough?

Okay then, here is the debate of the week:

a) Should we allow the discussion of the ethics and impacts that hacking and botting has on the game and the industry?

Yes.

b) Should we allow discussions about how to hack / bot?

No.

c) How should we handle links to sites that cater to hackers and botters? What if that link is not to a program but to an article of relevance to the community on QCDN.org?

Links to software should be deleted immediately. A one warning policy should be in effect for this sort of actions by a user. Repeat offense = b&. Articles, provided they don't explicitly provide instructions or links to software should be allowed in the name of discussion ala question A.

d) As a site, how should we deal with members that claim to hack?

Let the wolves have at them in the FB, otherwise lock it.

e) Following along the lines of the previous question, what if a mod (Babj in this case) claims to have cheated. Should they be removed as a moderator if they are otherwise meeting their commitments to the community of QCDN.org? What alternate sanctions, if any, would you suggest?

In all honesty you cheating has exactly dick to do with how well you mod a forum. It's kind of moot. Being a mod around here is all but thankless work for the most part. As much as i don't support cheating i can support a mod who does what they do well. As modding and the game are two entirely seperate entities it should be mostly inconsequential. That you'd come out and openly cop to cheating in the first place invites punishment enough, but in all actuality admitting something like that to the community shows more 'community' ties then the assholes raking you over the coals for it ... hypothetically <.<

Yes cheating is wrong. But you're not cheating the forums by doing as much good on/to them as possible in your time here.

Just my opinions.

 

[Tim Wakefield]

Gawd I wish I could reply in this topic. Good call Reeve, This could have otherwise been faaar outta hand.