Ugghhhhh Merit Frustration...so.... Opinions?

[Aselus]

There are too many Merits I want and can't have all of them.... so it's causing quite a decision frustration on my part.... Soooo I picked some, want to know everyones opinion.... please note i DO NOT sub /nin... so... that's why the third eye thing.

Group 1
* Third Eye Recast (-2 seconds per upgrade)
* Store TP Effect (+2 per upgrade)
* Meditate Recast (-6 seconds per upgrade)
ehhh... to be honest Zanshin goes off well enough, and Circle of omg-useless.... is well... mostly useless, intimidation doesn't go off often enough...anyways...
my plan is to get Meditate and Third Eye Recast (-5sec) in this category... thoughi REALLY want StoreTP, the honest truth is I have a 6hit build w/o it in my EQ... so untill i get better equipment that lack the store TP i need for 6hit... prolly best to ignore that... and since i don't sub nin, 5 seconds off of third eye recast might not be such a bad thing, considering most of the time it breaks w 10 or less seconds left on it in my experience (while in seigan).. question is am I going to cry if i get better gear and don't have this anymore? ~_~

Group 2

This category is im-po-si-ble.

* Shikikoyo (-2 minutes 30 seconds recast per upgrade)
amazing, because it lets me get down to 100 tp, and possibly buff a dnc in the group.. but useless if/when I sub dnc. Also I don't find myself going over 100tp often... except at the very end of a battle when something is about to die and i don't want to waste TP(in which case this happens rare enough that Sekkanoki will save that TP for another time)... so as much as I love this ability, I decided against it..to instead get:
* Blade Bash (-2 minutes 30 seconds recast per upgrade)
Stuns are usefull.... really usefull... plague makes fights easier, not having to deal w/ an enemy TP move once every 5 minutes(and if plague hits less often) as i learned is a big boon, especially if fighting something difficult, but even when exping. So I decided to get this over Shikikoyo... tho I'm still at ends about it T_T which is better/more worth it *sighs*
* Ikishoten (+3 TP gained per upgrade)
- So at first when i read this.. i went "pshhaaa useless"... then i watched myself(w/ sushi) fighting colibri last night w/ polearm and w/ GK... Zanshin goes off a LOT more often then I thought so it made me want this... but.... but... i can only have two and sadly i don't think this outweighs Blade bash T_T... maybee get 3overwhelm 2of this? but then that's 4%dmg.... ugh... not getting this, but want to.
* Overwhelm (+5% damage bonus per upgra
What man can say no to +19% dmg?... ok understandably there are instances where the enemy does ridiculous frontal cone attacks and it can't be used... but a lot of the time, standing behind the tank is plausable and that's a lot of extra damage... also... if /thf(though i don't have it leveled yet), TA from this is even better hate for the tank. So I'm getting this..def

Anyways this post is bery disjointed, but I wanted to know everyone thoughts, and my 'complete' thought stream was better for this, I think... saying screw third eye sub nin gets ignored, I'm not even considering it so there is no point in posting it unless u just feel like being an ass.

 

[Bajaratt]

I went store TP/Meditate and Shikoyo/Overwhelm.

I'd say go for the Store TP merits. They're far more useful as your gear improves, so unless you plan to keep your sam as it is forever, I'd get them now. You can even make improvements now; I can't say what they are since I don't know what your gear is, but you can definitely take off a bunch of the store TP you have now for more haste/acc/attack/str.

Shikikoyo is very useful for endgame fights. If you're fighting something that you either can't/don't want to melee; then it's incredibly useful to be able to feed your SC partner TP. It can be useful for merit parties; store up a little extra TP waiting on the next mob and feed it to someone else to help things out.

 

[ds083roadkill]

do 5/5 meditate, and 5/5 overwhelm for now, leave the rest open until you situation changes.

i personally have 5/5 shikiyoko for prefight tp for other dd's cuz i do alot of event that requires.

for store tp, is something that depends on your gear. if you dont have rajas your going to have to use hachiman hands and boots, which i dont reccomend. also, if and when you ever get usukane sune-ate, 4/5 STP is all you need.

edit: thing about blade bash is neither stun or plauge (if i recall) is 100% chance to land, as opposed to weapon/sheild bash.

 

[Tagrineth]

All I'll say is don't get Ishikoten.

Buffing Zanshin is basically assuming you're going to miss, which you shouldn't be doing. (assuming you'll miss, not actually missing... obviously you're going to miss but minimizing misses > maximizing your miss-make-up)

 

[Aselus]

All I'll say is don't get Ishikoten.

Buffing Zanshin is basically assuming you're going to miss, which you shouldn't be doing. (assuming you'll miss, not actually missing... obviously you're going to miss but minimizing misses > maximizing your miss-make-up)

see everyone dsays this..but considering acc cap is 80%... assuming i DON'T miss seems to be the mistake... becase well.. you do miss... even w/ perfect acc food, unless you stack acc gear like a mad man, which i'm not i'm stacking haste/StoreTP(up to 6hit) gear for TPing.

Though I guess I kind'a understand this ^_^. J/W if anyone's ACTUALLY tested this merit and seen how much extra TP they'll get in let's say an NM fight and/or a merit PT w/ certain food setups(esp. like when you haveto take red curry and can't eat sushi?)... might be interesting... iono i'm not meriting it for now... but i think it's a lot more usefull then some people make it out to be... uhhh though would be great to see some test results *sighs*hehehe.


As for the hachiman feet/gauntlets statement.. for one imho the feet are the best thing I can wear till usukane... and uhh... I don't even have a salvage group yet...
And the arms are more then good enough as well.
unless i wanna stack acc (hanzo tekko, or hydra to boost jump as well /drg) or tiny extra haste (dusk), str+4/att+10 is really nice... on top of amazing StoreTP... hmm fi i merit storeTP AND wear these when /dnc tho.... mmm(i don't have soboro yet so can't depend on that in said case).. what other hands would you recommend? (aside fromt he ridiculous +str hands for WSing)?
How about feet? i really don't see other 'real' feet options that I don't get as drops...

Blade bash has the same chance to stun as the other weapon bashes and Sheild bash since ~four updates ago? i forget.. but it's the same. Chance for the Plague to go off is something between 50~75%(many argue)... i think it'll be more usefull then Shikkikoyo for me, because of applications outside of group activities as well as in... plus every other sam I know has shikikoyo.

 

[Jakey]

see everyone dsays this..but considering acc cap is 80%

caps at 95%
at acc cap, which you should be at or near, assuming a 10% proc rate for the zanshin which is what wiki says you should expect to see a zanshin attack on 5/1000 attack rounds, with normal double attack probably counting against that. of those attacks 95% should hit.

lets say somone is at 80% acc, which is a lot lower than you probably want to be for most fights now you can expect to see a zanshin attack 2/100 attack rounds and 80% of those zanshin attacks should hit.

even at 50% acc which is just awful. you should now expect 5/100 attack rounds you'll get a zanshin attack but half of those attacks will also miss and you barely end up with more than you had at 80% acc well your overall number of hits is absolutely horrid.


now that you see how rare and unpractical zanshin attacks are let me go into the other problem with Ikishoten which is that really 110 tp isn't really significantly better than 100 tp, so just occasionally getting an extra 3-15 tp (depending on merits) is very unlikely to actually help, especially once a 6 hit build is made. fully merited 15 bonus tp can cut a full swing off of a 7 hit build but by the time you're looking at being fully merited you should have acc capped and zanshin becomes so rare it's hardly worth mentioning.

 

[Aselus]

hmm yeah 100~200TP is crap in general.lol
But You could save it for the next WS w/ Sekkanoki or if /dnc get an extra heal/debuff out of it... iono.... as I said i'm on your side with this... numerically speaking it looks worthless... would still be cool to see someone actually pulling numbers on "this is how many times it went off during a few ZNM fight, this is how many times I had it happen in a colibri party w/ a gk.. w/ a polearm), cause for some reason it felt like more then 10% and i was eating sushi... lol ^^ more curiosity then anything on my part.

 

[Tagrineth]

Aselus, keep in mind some of those "Zanshins" you were seeing might have just been double attacks where the first swing missed (assuming you're either /WAR since you don't sub NIN, or have Brutal Earring or Pole Grip, which you should obtain at some point if you haven't already...)

 

[Aselus]

I'm /drg ... so yeah all Zanshin for me. I thought double attack doens't go off on a miss?
does Pole grip grant Double Attack?... I plan on getting Brutal Eventually, using Myth+1 right now.

 

[Aselus]

My gear:
Main: Onimaru/Engetsuto
Grip: Myth+1
Range: lightning Bow +arrows for pulling
Hat: Walahra Turban(i want a wyv helm for WS... but everytime i goto the AH *grumbles*)
Neck: Chiv Chain (though royal guards right now as i'm re-getting chiv... mmmonnneeey)
Body: hauby
Hands: Hachiman Kote
Ears: Coral Earring, Wyvern Earring
Rings: Ecphoria, Garrulous
Back: Ametmet
Belt: Potent(pole belt for polearm)
Shoes: haciman sun-ate
Legs: Shinimusha Hiadate.


If i get StoreTP merits, first thing i'd drop is the Haidate(legs).... but i really don't see any amazing replacements that i can get anytime soon.

 

[Bajaratt]

Royal knight's breeches would be a cheap upgrade over shinimusha haidate.

You're going to want dusk gloves/usukane feet/Byakko's Haidate as well; so those would be the upgrades you should be shooting for down the road, and that's where you'd get the most out of store TP merits.

 

[Diabllos]

Most importantly merit these, and in this order:

STP 5/5 >> GK 8/8 >> Overwhelm 5/5 >> Meditate 5/5

Critical rate 4/4 and STR 5/5 are nice additions after these are done, crits coming first though.

Doesn't really matter after that. Shikikoyo and Blade Bash are nice toys to have, but don't rush out meritting them fully or anything. Ikishoten is mostly a waste, though there's no harm in sticking 3 merits in that after 1 each in BB / Shiki if you want.

 

[amentis]

Most importantly merit these, and in this order:

STP 5/5 >> GK 8/8 >> Overwhelm 5/5 >> Meditate 5/5

Critical rate 4/4 and STR 5/5 are nice additions after these are done, crits coming first though.

Doesn't really matter after that. Shikikoyo and Blade Bash are nice toys to have, but don't rush out meritting them fully or anything. Ikishoten is mostly a waste, though there's no harm in sticking 3 merits in that after 1 each in BB / Shiki if you want.

What this man says is the way to go.
With 5/5 STP, all you need is Brutal (or chiv chain), hachiman feet (or hands), and a rajas in order to get a 6 hit. This opens up slots for much better gear, and maximizes the damage your gear puts out, since you shave a whole hit off your tp'ing time.

Personally, I did 5/5 STP > 5/5 Medi, because overwhelm didn't exist when I leveled sam.

But definitely the way to go is 5/5 STP > 8/8 GKT (n/a if you have merits already ;P ) > 5/5 Over > 5/5 Medi > 1 (at least) shiki, then either blade bash or finish off shiki.

I had ikishoten, WORST MERIT EVAR. So pointless, you can't even notice it for the most part.

 

[Javir]

Most importantly merit these, and in this order:

STP 5/5 >> GK 8/8 >> Overwhelm 5/5 >> Meditate 5/5

Critical rate 4/4 and STR 5/5 are nice additions after these are done, crits coming first though.

Doesn't really matter after that. Shikikoyo and Blade Bash are nice toys to have, but don't rush out meritting them fully or anything. Ikishoten is mostly a waste, though there's no harm in sticking 3 merits in that after 1 each in BB / Shiki if you want.

Believe it or not, I agree completely here. The biggest thing you want to consider is increasing your DOT from TPing and your damage output on WSs and the easiest way to do that is as above. With Store TP alone, you can make strong improvements to your gear, even if you don't have endgame options available to you.

The biggest thing DDs are losing out on these days is they're so hung up on putting out the most damage, that they forget how to moderate it just right to avoid taking hate. At last if you're /NIN you can mitigate that much easier. Without you have to almost leave Seigan up and for as much fun as all that haste might be /DRG, you're losing out on free haste and a nice chunk of STR if you're stronger than the other melees in your PT.

A level 70 and above samurai will gain a boost of +10 STR, +10 Accuracy, and +10% haste for melee attacks. The STR boost is based on the level of the Samurai (At Lv.25, the boost is +3 STR, but at Lv.70+, the boost is +10 STR.) When SAM is set as a subjob, the STR value is based off of the sub level, i.e. a DRG75/SAM37 will have a boost in STR by 5.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Hasso

Personally, and considering that I've been able to accumulate some nice gear for SAM, I'd say full-timing the above quote beats out /DRG.

 

[Mitsukai]

I know this is the wrong thread (/NIN versus /WAR for merits), but since it got locked only a day prior, and this is still a thread technically about merits, I have to voice my opinion. Because frankly I don't think I've ever seen a greater collective group of misinformed and confused people (read: idiots) when it comes to SAM than here.

seigan really is better then /nin, the benefits you lose out from other subs are ridiculous..if you REALLY want surviavbility as a sam you should be subbing dnc, not nin... I know it got added not that long ago, but seriously it's a much better option with much more flexability.

I was in a merit PT on colibri yesterday as /drg w/ pole belt and haste earring(usualy don't do polearm but for colibri hard not to) and we had a dnc healer who was doing just fine. We also had a sam/war Tanking and a sam/nin in the pt as well.

A) you slow yourself down from casting shadows INCREDIBLY slow while under seigan/hasso,

B) really... things die too fast and your healer should be able to keep up if you get damaged... if healers are going to be lazy, or be 'haste' bots, then use a dnc healer in ur merit pt, or a brd, or RDM, or hell a Corsair, whm on colibri can't rest... how is he keeping his mp up anyways? /smn and refresh gear is not always enough.

C) honestly... Seigan/Third eye is amazing, instant and usualy will last more then enough time to equal out to/compensate for that Sam/nin in the pt that turns around to cast shadows and lose hate(while getting hit in the proccess and half the time interupted)

D) subbing a job for ONE ability, that casts slow, reduces the usefullness of your main job and does not complement it in ANY way shape or form, is a weak easy way out. I understand there are some end game situations where you can't get hit and all and it might be an utter life saver(though form my research i have yet to find one realistic case where this is true)

To clarify as to what he's saying in point A, casting time for Utsusemi is increased by 50% and then the recast time is increased by 50%. What this means is that not only are you waiting long to finish casting, you're also increasing the time until you can recast Utsusemi thus prolonging your vulnerability to getting attacked.

Point B is also true, mobs do die fast. If your WHM or RDM can't keep up then it's their fault. Just last night I was in a party with a BRD and WHM; this means a slower refresh effect than if it was a RDM, and yet they had absolutely zero problems keeping their MP above 900 even with me being a so called "MP sponge." If your healer is running out of MP, consider replacing the healer, not the SAM/WAR.

Point C: While Utsusemi is indeed a static three shadows, once those three shadows are up, it's over and you need to recast; but you can't because you get interrupted due to longer casting time, or you can't because the recast isn't up yet due to a 50% increase. Whereas on the other hand while Seigan+Third Eye is random and can last as few as one attack, or as many as over ten attacks, when the longer streaks of anticipates kick in, it's absolutely worth is every time. Not to mention Third Eye blocks the entirety of multi-hit attacks whereas Utsusemi does not.

Also can youtell me whats better: sam/nin full timeing hasso, or sam/war full timing seigan.

This is a joke, right?

You gain more damage from /WAR due to increased attack and a higher base STR than /NIN. Not to mention you gain access to Berserk and Warcry; 10% Double Attack. Even with fulltime Hasso, a SAM/NIN's damage is going to fall short of the SAM/WAR with Seigan simply because of the support job.

My monk's been subbing nin for a hell of a lot longer than my samurai has; I have the exact same complaints about how it doesn't help me other than stops me from being an MP sink. I go mnk/nin anyways, because I'm not retarded/arrogant enough to put my own personal e-peen over the welfare of the entire party; it even benefits me more because I get far more exp/hour.

Did you really just compare a MNK to a SAM? MNK has to sub NIN. Why? Because they don't have access to Seigan and Third Eye. SeiganEye is what allows SAM/WAR's to do what they do best. You said Third Eye is bad because it isn't consistent, and I agree on that part to an extent, it isn't consistent, but while Utsusemi is consistent, it's also consistently unreliable because it's guaranteed to only block three hits. Third Eye has the chance to block much more. I've seen Third Eye last the full 30-seconds duration and be under attack the entire time on several occasions.

Another thing I noticed in your posts; you're downing Aselus for using a Polearm? Last I checked Greater Colibri are weak to piercing, and I've seen SAMs throw out 1500-2000 Penta Thrusts on a regular basis. I know this because mine has.

The top players are all subbing ninja,

Lol.

And for those who complain about hasso slowing down utsu... Cancel the fucking thing if it's such a problem and then put it back up right after. Is that so hard? If your nin is lv 37+ did you figure out how to cancel ni properly? It's basically the same thing only you might decide to cancel the hasso while mid cast if it's ni you're doing since ni casts so fast that the difference in time when casting NI is almost nonexistent.

So, what you're saying is that whenever you get hate (which as a SAM is quite often), you should cancel out Hasso or Saigan so that you can put Utsuemi back up with no penalties? Cool. So now that Utsusemi is back up, I guess I'll just play with my pesky while I wait for the recast to cool on Hasso or Seigan so that I can reapply those. Whereas Third Eye, I can just keep the fucker up fulltime.


<----->
Long wall-of-text aside, here's the thing: if you're gonna complain about pick-up parties using /WAR over /NIN because not everyone knows how to play their job (which is somewhat common) then guess what? DON'T FUCKING MERIT IN PICKUPS. It's as simple as that.

 

[Aselus]

i'm not going into this discussion again there was enough of a thread about it. please keep the /nin stuff out of this thread, thank you.

yeah I'm doing those merits.. though I think Crit before meditate possibly... still extremely undecided on the meditate vs third eye thing it's a frustrating decision, i think i'm going to flip flop that a lot when i hit it.

 

[Tomasello]

i'm not going into this discussion again there was enough of a thread about it. please keep the /nin stuff out of this thread, thank you.

You need to know how to handle these guys Aselus.

I don't have to tell you /war is bad. Everybody knows /war is bad. It's a subjob. Everybody's out meriting and scared of using their favorite subjob. A hundred gil buys five's worth; bazaars are going bust; RMT are running wild in the street, and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it.

We know the gear that is used is unfit to wear and our squid sushi is gimp to eat. And we sit watching our computers while some website tells us that today we had fifteen accounts stolen and sixty-three mpks, as if that's the way it's supposed to be!

We all know things are bad -- worse than bad -- they're crazy.

It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out any more. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we're living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, "Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my PS2 and my XBox and my PC with FFXI on it, and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone."

Well, I'm not going to leave you alone.

I want you to get mad!

I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot. I don't want you to write Square Enix, because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the drop rates and the inflation and the RMT and the ninja lots.

All I know is that first, you've got to get mad.

You've gotta say, "I'm a SAM/WAR, goddammit! My job has value!"

So, I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chair. I want you to get up right now and go to the window, open it, and stick your head out and yell,

I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO SUB NINJA ANYMORE!!!

 

[Bajaratt]

i'm not going into this discussion again there was enough of a thread about it. please keep the /nin stuff out of this thread, thank you.

yeah I'm doing those merits.. though I think Crit before meditate possibly... still extremely undecided on the meditate vs third eye thing it's a frustrating decision, i think i'm going to flip flop that a lot when i hit it.

Meditate is pretty much a must if you plan on doing endgame on samurai. Cutting down your meditate timer for big fights is a godsend speeding up kills; especially when coupled with Shikikoyo. SAM's job is doing skill chains, or at least just a good weapon skill; so you should be trying to maximize your ability to do weapon skills for endgame; and third eye merits aren't going to be useful for that.

 

[Gunnerx]

You need to know how to handle these guys Aselus.

I don't have to tell you /war is bad. Everybody knows /war is bad. It's a subjob. Everybody's out meriting and scared of using their favorite subjob. A hundred gil buys five's worth; bazaars are going bust; RMT are running wild in the street, and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it.

We know the gear that is used is unfit to wear and our squid sushi is gimp to eat. And we sit watching our computers while some website tells us that today we had fifteen accounts stolen and sixty-three mpks, as if that's the way it's supposed to be!

We all know things are bad -- worse than bad -- they're crazy.

It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out any more. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we're living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, "Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my PS2 and my XBox and my PC with FFXI on it, and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone."

Well, I'm not going to leave you alone.

I want you to get mad!

I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot. I don't want you to write Square Enix, because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the drop rates and the inflation and the RMT and the ninja lots.

All I know is that first, you've got to get mad.

You've gotta say, "I'm a SAM/WAR, goddammit! My job has value!"

So, I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chair. I want you to get up right now and go to the window, open it, and stick your head out and yell,

I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT TO SUB NINJA ANYMORE!!!

So my school had a MLK day assembly and this sketch was used in it ... that's really coincidental, but suits. Gave me a good chuckle.

 

[Zoolander]

nvm, I read what you guys said wrong