Underleveled/Dumb subjobs!!!

[Pupusa]

I don't know how many of you experienced Qufim, but I have to say, I'm glad I got out of there. The place itself isn't bad, and the enemies are great XP and easy to chain with a good setup, but my time their was less than enjoyable due to one thing. PEOPLE WITH LVL 1 SUBJOBS. If your in Qufim, and your a level 24WAR, why the hell do you have a LVL 1 WHM as a sub, not even a LVL 1 MNK, a WHM, how is that useful? I had PT's with 2 WAR22/WHM01, BLM23/RDM05, WHM24/BLM04, etc...

Now that I'm in Kazham, seems like things are like they should be, good subjob combos and pretty well raised, much better.

Here's a question, what do you consider to be the acceptable level gap between Maxsubjob vs. Current subjob? Like the WAR22/WHM01 could have WHM up to 11, so its techinically got a gap of 10. I honestly think around 6-7 you should be looking at raising it again. Biggest gap I ever had was 1, when I reached 30THF with 14WAR sub. Now I'm raising WAR a bit to ensure that it stays capped when I'm in a party with my THF, I feel it shows respect to the PT. Anyway, just post other horror stories you've had with dumb/underleveled subs.

 

[annabelle]

I saw a Rank 2, SAM24/WHM11 looking for a group in Kazham once. How on earth can you unlock the SAM subjob but not take the time to beat the dragon for Rank 3, or even realize WHM is a horrible sub for SAM?

In all honesty, I appreciate these people. At least this way when recruiting a party, I can weed out the idiots straight from the /search windows as opposed to trial and error.

 

[Dirgesong]

I think having an underleveled subjob is kind of embarassing myself. A lot of people rush right to the point where the can have their advanced job, not stopping to smell the roses along the way, and in the end this hurts them.

But you're gonna find these people no matter what. It's easy just to not PT with them and the higher lv. you get the less you'll find it because less people will tolerate it.

 

[Sculli]

I read an interesting article, somewhere, and I didn't bookmark it, but it was basically about character planing, and whoever wrote it said that it helps to have a clear view of what kind of character one wants to end up with.

Then level all the base sub jobs to the appropriate levels, and then level the main job, so that one never has to go back to leveling sub ever again.

In principle that is probably a good approach, but of course many people don't know what it is they want to do later on, which makes it more tricky.

 

[Akamu]

Okay.. I have some points to share both ways..

First regarding character planning..

In my specific case, I planned my character when talking with friends who all started playing near the same time. They needed a pure dmg guy for the party, so I went galka monk with intentions to go Dragoon at 30. Now.. when I hit 18 and was ready for sub.. I stopped right there and leveled war to 10 using a polearm.. for drg prep.

then I continued to 30 with mnk.. with war only at 10. Why? Cause I got the DEF bonus and that's all I really cared about at that point.. 20-30 didn't take me very long to get and I wasn't the tank anymore at that point usually.. I'm sure some stats might have been a little bit better.. but meh I say!

After I got to 30, I was sick of melee and some of my friends had already stopped playing and we weren't really a "group" anymore.. as far as leveling together was concerned because of everyones work schedules and what not. I also did research on the drg quest and decided it was a huge PITA.. so I said screw it. Did BST quest and then BRD quest. Leveled BRD/BST to 7/1.. before switching to BRD/WHM, obviously with some quick WHM leveling in there to get up to speed.

At that point, I never went more than 1 level behind with my subjob.. in fact, now I have my sub leveled up to 25, 8 levels ahead for my main which sits at 42 still..

The only other time my sub is lacking is when I'm farming.. I still use my 1 bst for widescan.

Now.. on to the DUMB subjob choices... OMG does that piss me off. Now.. I just leveled PLD to 11 and unil I hit 10th lvl, I had /whm for the paralyze, dia, and lvl 1 curing.. and extra MP.. but I did it all solo.. so I didn't need the war bonuses.. which were minor at that point. Once I hit 11 and parties were on the horizon.. I immediately went to /war for provoke.. which is just necessary.. it's a no brainer.

But all the WAR/WHM I see just drive me crazy. I suppose maybe those guys are aspiring PLD maybe and they just didn't see any point to leveling a job besides whm for a bit cause they will use /war with PLD...

Hell, I don't know.. they make some odd choices, I usually just go with the flow.. make fun of them behind their backs.. unlike all the people that feel the need to point out that I'm a galka caster sometimes.. as if I wasn't aware. What's funny to me is I've been in parties with multiple taru blm's and I've been able to manage my MP better than they have, including using bar spells as well as poisona.. and slow/paralyze. It's all about being efficient.. being a bard taught me that.

 

[Akamu]

Wanted to note that my /bst isn't used for farming.. lol.. I've used it for nm hunting.. but I hate hunting them.. so I rarely do it.

So anyways.. character planning is a mixed bag for me.. I think you should experience different jobs in the game to understand each role in a party in order to be more effective at the jobs you choose as your main ones.

I think I've tried just about every role.. melee'er/dmg guy, tanker, healer, support... what else is there? oh.. I've been puller as just about every job I've leveled too.. even whm. But I would say that I've probably pulled the most mobs as Bard...

What pisses me off more than people with dumb subjobs and underleveled subs is the people who just don't know their role in the party. Like a tanker who doesn't provoke on a regular basis.. or a rdm who doesn't debuff.. or the dmg dealer who is late to the melee all the time.. the list goes on and on..

 

[java]

a rdm who doesn't debuff

well...they arnt really debuffing until higher levels. I hardly debuffed until level 15-20 mostly due to the plain lack of spells.

 

[Kitana]

Perhaps people with a lvl 1 sub are newbies who don't really know how the subjob thing works? (ie. u cannot level a subjob but gotta lvl it first as a mainjob)

 

[Pseulen]

dunno, im a rank4, sam21/war9 atm. I want to get my warr up to the teen levels for the def boost, and maybe berserk when my sam is high enough, but the main reason i dont is because its time consuming. I dont plan to keep warr as my subjob, ill prolly change it to dark for the attack boosts, still not entirely sure. But to switch back, id need to go back to windurst and buy armor i can use again. Riding the chocobo is time consuming, but the thing thats hardest is buying the armor. Im flat broke because of samurai gear and unuseable gear from my original job.

Anyway, thats my explanation for my underleveld job, now the reason i dont mind ppl with underleveled jobs is because at certain levels, its pointless to have a couple extra levels. Ok, im a 24 samurai with a lvl 10 warr.....doesnt mean anything because the sub caps at 12 and u dont get any new abilities or bonuses. Once my sam is 30, then it matters because berserk in unlockable and would make a considerable difference. Subjob only really matters every 10 levels when u get new abilities, etc.

 

[guntar]

I agree completely with Pseulen. My warrior subjob was behind quite a bit, but when my monk hit level 50, it would've been bad to not have double attack. I was a monk 49/war 21 for a while, scared to party in qufim again =). But before I levelled to 50, I worked on getting that subjob to 25 so that I can get my new ability with my monk. It worked out well. In the end, WAR barely even changed my stats enough to make an impact (I think I gained about 15-20hp total and maybe +1 vitality, not much for a full *4* levels higher with my subjob). So, the gap depends on whether or not their subjob could have abilities that means something. A WHM-1 subjob though... all you can do is cast 1 cure spell basically with your 12mp or so. That's not going to help much at all

 

[guntar]

And to all those people out there... that sub WHM with melee classes, I'd just like to let you know that a Hume 51MNK/21WHM only has *76* mp. I don't anticipate having more than 80 when I get my WHM to 25. (I was only subbing to use sneak).

 

[java]

well...PLD that are soloing I bet the extra mp wouldn't hurt.

 

[guntar]

Ya, I'm not talking about PLD, more like plain no MP main jobs like MNK or WAR where all they have is the "extra" MP and none of their own.

 

[Pseulen]

paladins have the highest def in the game, their primary focus should be just that. I think a warr is unfortunately the only sub for them because of voke (they really should give more classes that ability, especially paladin). A paladin should have hate on him at all times....granted, im thinking in terms of raids and hunts. MP wouldnt be that great because being a paladin, ull be getting interrupted alot. Dunno, others may feel differently, but i kinda wouldnt trust a paladin with whm sub. It would no doubt work out well for soloing, i can figure that, but in terms of PT and raid, i dunno.

 

[java]

I'd like to add that war dosn't exactly bring up alot of defense as a subjob. (bit sure exctly but some people have tested i know) If you were gonna do that then why not monk? you get bonus hp and vit and boost plus other abilities.

 

[Gyries]

I see having a fully leveled sub-job as an important factor as to how well your chosen race/class can perform. Though also as a player with limeted online time I can understand how it can tend to go by the wayside.

I am hearing a lot of focus on abilities that a class can add, and once you recieve those abilities getting another 4-5 levels just doesn't make sense as you will not reap the benefit for another 10 levels as your main. Take Berserk for example, being able to use it at 30 is a very nice plus indeed, but warriors do not recieve another "potent" ability until 25 (Defender and Double Attack) so why level up that warrior subjob until you're approaching 50?

First, for the stats boost. While gaining 1 point of Vitality or Strength seems insignificant as far as numbers, it can mean a great deal concerning defense and attack. That 1 point can bring the stat up to an even number giving you that boost to a "sub-stat" such as defense or attack. Per hit, is that one point going to make a difference? Probably not much. Over the course of a fight? Twenty hits later... you betcha' And when you consider a night of exp'ing, a fully leveled sub-job can shine.

Second, for the skill ups. Everytime you cast that spell, swing that weapon or take that hit there is a chance, though small as it seems sometimes to gain a skill raise. For melee Parry, Shield, Guard and Evasion each one is able to negate a hit against you, one single shot is what claims your life and exp, usually the last. For casters, Healing, Enfeeble, Elemental, Enhancement, Divine and Dark every single point enables your spells to hit more often and harder, or heal to the maximum of potential. Or sometimes more importantly, to last longer.

Third, respect. Getting groups is a competition of sorts, with the leader looking for capability and competence. Having your sub-job leveled is a quick way that a group can see that you mean business, and that you are good at what your business is. Rank ties into this one as well, do not delay in doing your missions, though time consuming and sometimes frustrating to find a large enough group. It is a way of showing that you have seen more of the game than the Dunes, Qufim, Khazam and Crawlers.

Though not a surefire way to pick a "best fit" for your group, the above factors can really make a players skills shine. Those that have casting roles in a party understand the cost of spells, but one level worth can make the difference between Cure I and Cure II, and having Slow. There is a Paladin on our server, for example who at level 46 has a fully leveled sub-job but does not have or use Flash. At the expense of being competant he has chosen to level, and word gets out about ping pong the mob. I have also grouped with Paladins who have had underleveled sub-jobs, sure they may take a little more damage per hit, or hit for less, but in understanding their chosen class... the mob never left them.

 

[Gyries]

I see having a fully leveled sub-job as an important factor as to how well your chosen race/class can perform. Though also as a player with limeted online time I can understand how it can tend to go by the wayside.

I am hearing a lot of focus on abilities that a class can add, and once you recieve those abilities getting another 4-5 levels just doesn't make sense as you will not reap the benefit for another 10 levels as your main. Take Berserk for example, being able to use it at 30 is a very nice plus indeed, but warriors do not recieve another "potent" ability until 25 (Defender and Double Attack) so why level up that warrior subjob until you're approaching 50?

First, for the stats boost. While gaining 1 point of Vitality or Strength seems insignificant as far as numbers, it can mean a great deal concerning defense and attack. That 1 point can bring the stat up to an even number giving you that boost to a "sub-stat" such as defense or attack. Per hit, is that one point going to make a difference? Probably not much. Over the course of a fight? Twenty hits later... you betcha' And when you consider a night of exp'ing, a fully leveled sub-job can shine.

Second, for the skill ups. Everytime you cast that spell, swing that weapon or take that hit there is a chance, though small as it seems sometimes to gain a skill raise. For melee Parry, Shield, Guard and Evasion each one is able to negate a hit against you, one single shot is what claims your life and exp, usually the last. For casters, Healing, Enfeeble, Elemental, Enhancement, Divine and Dark every single point enables your spells to hit more often and harder, or heal to the maximum of potential. Or sometimes more importantly, to last longer.

Third, respect. Getting groups is a competition of sorts, with the leader looking for capability and competence. Having your sub-job leveled is a quick way that a group can see that you mean business, and that you are good at what your business is. Rank ties into this one as well, do not delay in doing your missions, though time consuming and sometimes frustrating to find a large enough group. It is a way of showing that you have seen more of the game than the Dunes, Qufim, Khazam and Crawlers.

Though not a surefire way to pick a "best fit" for your group, the above factors can really make a players skills shine. Those that have casting roles in a party understand the cost of spells, but one level worth can make the difference between Cure I and Cure II, and having Slow. There is a Paladin on our server, for example who at level 46 has a fully leveled sub-job but does not have or use Flash. At the expense of being competant he has chosen to level, and word gets out about ping pong the mob. I have also grouped with Paladins who have had underleveled sub-jobs, sure they may take a little more damage per hit, or hit for less, but in understanding their chosen class... the mob never left them.

 

[Sabia]

or a rdm who doesn't debuff..

I think people underestimate how hard it is to play a RDM sometimes, especially before you get the really effective spells that cement your roll in the party such as Refresh. When people usually grab me to be in their party it's because they're lacking another aspect such as a BLM or WHM.

When this is the case (as it usually is) you really don't have the time or mp to be debuffing the enemies, which are almost always IT's w/high defence. When the party is lacking a blm they want you to do massive damage with black magic spells and throw in for MB's (which I do even if there is a blm) plus almost always back up heal. When they lack a WHM your forced to save MP strictly for healing...as I don't have the bonuses that WHM's have like Curaga and Bene when things get bad so it's good to keep the party in tip top shape besides I am missing quite a chunk of MP in comparison to my WHM friends.

Not to mention at this level i'm still really effective as a melee character (I know this will change). I'm doing as much damage as the theif and more with my added Enfire/Enthunder abilities.

Anyway given the chance I'll debuff/buff but a lot of time (especially playing healer and trying to minimize downtime with mp regeneration) you end up in an akward decision making process about what exactly your party wants your roll to be. There have been nights while I"m debuffing the bad guy the WHM lets someones HP drop to pink which forces me to stop and get the party back into fighting form.

Heck even sometimes if there is a WHM in the party we'll alternate healers as to have no downtime for MP regeneration. I understand later on in the game with higher level characters and advanced jobs people will understand exactly what a RDM does, but frankly even at lvl 31 I still am placed mostly in parties that have no idea what RDMs are for in this game and just use me to fill gaps, and hell if I'm getting the good XP and the party is functioning well I really don't mind.

So don't always blame the RDM if you don't think they're playing a RDM well, take a look at the party structure first before you pass judgement.

 

[annabelle]

Second, for the skill ups. Everytime you cast that spell, swing that weapon or take that hit there is a chance, though small as it seems sometimes to gain a skill raise.

Technically, you will not get skill-ups on skills exclusive to your subjob, and your subjob will not increase the cap on skills your main job already has. So this point is only valid in relation to having a fully leveled subjob if the skill is capped for that equivalent-level and the skill is applicable to your current role (ie. shield skill will not help a scythe-swinging DRK).

You're right about the stat boosts, though. Those small numbers mean a world of difference when you go up against IT's.

 

[java]

and for that little tiny chance. Its a hell-of-alot bigger against IT and IT high high.

just thought I'd throw that in. I've done this myself to raise magic spells. I run into an area and pull a monster to the edge and then i zone. I pop back in cast sleep and debuff away. Always make sure to use bind so you can resleep them after it has worn off. Only cast non-painful debuff spells. Yopu cannot cast poisen or rasp or choke or dia or anything that causes damage or the monster will wake up. Use stuff like paralyze bind ect. I've leveled 5 full debuff levels against a crawler in crawlers nest when i was a lower level.