tl;dr
Time to ramble a bit.
Anyone who has read more than 10 of my posts can quite obviously guess which side of this argument I'm on.
No, schools should most certainly not be allowed to have sports teams.
First of all, I'd like to respond to a few statements.
alanon said:
- How does it take the focus away from learning exactly? People who go to college to 'learn' are going to learn regardless of sports. If the get distracted because the college team is playing on Saturday, they have other problems.
Strid said:
That's life. Anything can take focus away from learnin'. Part of gettin' a college education is about learnin' to be independent with your work, i.e. to make yourself do your work and not have a teacher hold your hand.
I'm not talking necessarily about students. I'm talking about the administration. Example: Rutgers intends to help fund the expansion of Rutgers University's stadium, by some estimates, to the tune of $30 million.
That was precisely the amount by which the state decreased the budget for higher education for 2007.
Rutgers was forced to cancel 451 classes, lay off 185 employees and impose a tuition increase on its 50,000 students.
That is what I mean when I say it takes the focus off of learning. And that is just one example of many.
alanon said:
I'm not exactly sure how it causes corruption or embezzlement. When it does, it probably has a minor to zero impact on academics.
As for corruption...
-1999 University of Minnesota hoops academic cheating scandal.
-1981 Boston College college basketball point-shaving scandal.
-1962 college basketball point-shaving scandal involving 37 players from 22 institutions.
-1997 Arizona State college basketball point-shaving scandal.
-1998 Northwester college basketball point-shaving scandal.
-1993 Florida State college football "free shoes" scandal.
-2001 George O'Leary resigns as Notre Dame football coach after lies uncovered on his resume.
That's just a few.
The impact on academics is not minor in any sense of the word. Academic scandals particularly harm the reputation of the school. People that paid money to go there to get a degree from a respectable school, are thoroughly let down.
As far as embezzlement goes, Notre Dame for instance, makes $46 Million a year in profit. That's after their football program expenses and all the money they spend on academics. Yet they still do things like talk about going under. In 2002, they cut 5% of its funding for the University Libraries as a whole. Where is all that money going? If it's going where it is supposed to, then something doesn't add up. How could they make a profit of 46 million but still be in financial trouble?
Strid said:
It causes it *sometimes*. If we should cut college sports
because of this, we should cut where it happens even more, i.e. the political realm.
This is changing the subject. Which doesn't really work to prove a point, as I agree with you that we should cut where it happens in the political realm, but I think taking care of it in schools is just as important.
alanon said:
I highly doubt that a football player ever took a seat away from a student. The student-athletes use athletic scholarships. Football revenues pay for those scholarships. It is not as though if football did not exist, those scholarships would go to 'regular' students.
Football revenues can't pay for all athletic scholarships. Plain and simple. This year USF is cutting 450 jobs but not the athletic programs. The University of Florida is cutting 430 jobs. The University of Tennessee and the University of Alabama systems are cutting academic programs and eliminating jobs due to shortfalls in their budgets. It's hard to imagine budget shortfalls with teams making as much as $46 million a year.
Not only are there less classes and less people that get to go there, but they have to pay more for classes. Athletic scholarships pay as much as $200,000 over a course of 4 years. Also, some players are red shirted and stay a 5th year, which is paid for by the college.
Physically talented persons selected for their ability to run, jump, throw, kick or hit a ball are retained to staff a school's teams, and paid for their services while being classified as "scholars".
If the players, many of which who have no interest in higher learning, fill seats at a college, then logic would dictate those seats could be filled by non-athletes.
Strid said:
Who's to say athletes aren't lookin' to get an education? You're also takin' away the oppurtunity for higher education for those who excel at sports and could not afford it otherwise. Yes, it is a steppin' stone for the pro sport realm but it's also an opportunity to get an education as well. Also, there is nothin' wrong with usin' it as a steppin' stone. College, even if you don't plan to use your education initially (that's not to say you don't use it in your daily life), is a fantastic fall back plan. Besides, what the world doesn't need is even more *stupid* athletes.
They need an education, that's for sure. A study at OSU recently reported that 16% of athletes take remedial classes compared to 2% of non-athletes. One reason for this may be because athletes have been concentrating on athletics instead of scholastics, making sports detrimental to their education.
If you excel at a sport and can't afford an education, you don't deserve one more than someone who excels at scholastics and can't afford an education.
Wouldn't it be far easier to establish a developmental league for those athletes who choose an immediate income for them and their family, to concentrate on their value as a football player and do not wish to graduate from college?
alanon said:
Top 15? Are you serious? There's conference money, TV contracts, merchandise sales, not to mention alumni contributions.
#20 on the Forbes list only makes 8 mil a year profit. What happens when #35 need to renovate their football stadium? They will renovate it and cut money to the academic sector to help pay for it.
the top 10% of revenue producers in college football, keep nearly 80% of the total profits made in this business. And make no mistake, this IS big business.
And what is even odder is that it can be literally MORE profitable to sit home and NOT play in a post-season bowl game, than it is to send your team to play in one.
If it costs you a half-million dollars to go to a bowl game — and that's on the low end — and you tack on a $600,000-$800,000 ticket and sponsorship requirement, you've got to come up with $1.3 million simply to come out even.
You do the math: $1.3 million in expenses and a $750,000 payout. It doesn't work.
Strid said:
Blame the school for not havin' their priorities straight. However, I highly doubt this is a serious issue. If a school isn't a school first and foremost they loose their main source of income, normal students. They also loose/gain state fundin' based on this. It's definitly not to their advantage to do this to a point where it would cause problems.
I do blame the school. That's what this whole post is about. It is a very serious issue. As I pointed out earlier academic programs are being cut while sports programs are not.
alanon said:
And? Athletics are an extra curricular activity. To state that there's nothing that can't be learned in the classroom.... well the same logic can be used to do away with greek organizations, math club, french club, SADD, etc, etc.
Greek organizations should be done away with. Most of that is silly, pretentious, and unnecessary bullshit. Math Club and French club promote scholastics. I don't see how there is a problem there. SADD is a farce. You can get rid of that, too, for all I care.
Strid said:
Learn how to entertain millions and millions of people, worldwide, in a classroom. You could argue, "Okay, I'll take COSC classes and make video games", that's fine, but think, not everyone plays video games. That's not to say everyone likes sports either but the same philosophy applies.
To entertain millions, you could be an actor, a writer or a musician for example. Or if you want to assist in entertainment of millions, you could be anything from a construction worker to a botanist. Think about building stages for performers, decorating the set for talk shows, so on and so forth.
Besides, entertainment should take a backseat to academics. It doesn't, but it should.