Update Details!

[Stouter]

Remember the TP floor adjustment? We all knew who the nerf targeted - SE was trying to hurt warrior/ninja. Of all the jobs that dual weild, which arguably deserved a nerf the least: thief. Which was the only job hurt by the nerf? Thief was.

1 - Thief wasn't hurt that bad by the TP nerf. Thf/nin can still out TP any 2H weapon, and easily get 100 TP faster than their SATA timers can reset. 99% of the time, there's no point in a thf getting more than 100 TP per minute.
2 - War/nin TP wasn't touched, I doubt they were the directly the target of the nerf. They still get the same TP/hit with the same delay, sometimes even more. 2H weapons get more TP, which is where the other end of this comes in, it wasn't all a nerf.
3 - Nin was the obvious target of the nerf, they exploit the TP floor more than any other job with DW4 + enhancements. However, a ninja's damage isn't as WS dependant as most melee jobs, so this wasn't much of a blow to them.

 

[Rorschach]

Blm gets pretty much the same thing from sky that all other jobs get: 1-3 good pieces of gear, and a bunch of crap that is situational at best. You make it sound like all other jobs get their entire equipment sets from sky. And you don't get anything at all from sky, nothing? Then why the hell would you even show to sky if you got shit? Do what all the other blms do and show up for 3 god fights, get A hands, then quit.

Ok as for the gear, blm get only one thing A.Hands. And even thats almost not a reason to be there considering it requires us to give up 15 ele skill (cant damage what ya cant hit). Other then that what can we get? The shield? When do we use a club past 51?

As for "doing what other blms do" by getting hands and quitting, well I couldnt do that. It would be a dick move and I dont do "dick moves". If someone helps me get gear I'll be there to help them get theirs.

 

[Sirelrohir]

Darth don't think that I hate blm. Hating any job ingame is impossible, when you weaken one of the 18 you weaken them all, and vice versa and some inbetween

The game is designed to bring us together, so when one job takes a hit, the others do too, just not directly. How much it hurts depends on the job and what is weakened.

Making sky longer could keep out some of the competition esp the lolRMT, considering their late success is nothing to the legit players, since the fights will be longer the lag will be greater/longer. Could make some RMT cry and take the ball home. Seems improbable eh? Players do that all the time esp with gear, you know what they do? They don't lv the craft, they buy gil since its the easy way. Like the new RMT coming in, they don't care about having full subs or the best armor, just chunnelling to endgame to get their asses owned by us. There could be some benefits, just not visible yet.

Ninja- from SE, was the unexpected tank that made some jobs life a lot easier. This strengthened the 18 jobs for the most part, except pld^^;

well said, however, im not sure what kind of impact this will have on rmt in sky. I think it will slow down the game for everyone, and if rmt stays up there, then it will just be worse.

 

[alanon]

Took long enough for the blm bitchfest to startup.
gogo blm bitchfest

Thanks for adding nothing of substance.

 

[Darthyoda]

in sky I'm frequently outdamaged (top damage) by great melee players...

I'm more of a stun whore than anything..

but I'd like to see a long experience blm list the gear that blm get from sky that we actually use.

HNM: I see two things.. Rostrum pumps, and Uggelepih pendant (sp).

Sky: I see Zenith mitts, and maybe a Dalmatica.. maybe Zenith slacks.. maybe even Kirin's pole.

realistically the full list is;
Rostrum pumps, Zenith Mitts, and the ugly people pendant...

Endgame BLM's will typically use AF/AF2 gear, Mahatma Slops, Elemental Staves, Demon's "head", elemental torque, and such.. the only things that are "uber" in a blm's mind are those items I listed above.... So, why are we there past our mitts again !? Because we want to be team players, do our part, and join in the ranks of endgame.. maybe gear for other jobs..

so tell me again why all this angst towards blm's ?

feel free to respond please.

 

[Rorschach]

And oddly enough, Blms can buy the Uggy Pendant and Kirin's Pole; both of which are pretty cheap compared to say the Osode.

 

[Stouter]

so tell me again why all this angst towards blm's ?

I think part of it is fat kid syndrome. You get the fat kids who aren't picked, watching Mr Blm get picked for every fight.

Then you have the leaders that whore blms for everything, mandatory we need you get out here, you are our bitches. This makes blms upset and they end up leaving the shell before other people get their stuff. This makes the people that didn't get their stuff upset at blms that left.

Then you have the blms that do stick around and decide to turn the tables. You guys are my bitches, you couldn't do shit without me, you're lucky if I let you lick my toilet after I poop.

 

[Bajaratt]

See though, the thing about A.Hands is that it "replaces" our AF1 hands. Sure Zenith Mitts are great when we're fighting things that are TW-T/low VT. But all the things that we fight in sky Gods/Kirin for the most part we use our AF1 hands so whats the point of getting them if we'll only use them in XP parties? Or atleast, whats the point in stressing their "usefulness"? Its like loading up on Str/Atk but having piss poor Acc. So what if you have the ability to land for a ton of damage if you can rarly hit the guy for your full damage anyway?

You're ignoring what I said, just going on about how "useless" A hands are. Since you keep saying that most of blm's best gear is bought, they can make millions in sky to buy that gear. I never said anything about how great A. hands were, please actually read what you're quoting before you just repeat yourself all over again when it doesn't address what you're rebuting against.

Also, if A. hands were as useless as you say, then the blm's should try passing them to the rdm, whm or smn's who actually want them and will wear them but have to sit back and wait for every blm to get the gloves first. If you don't want them, let the people who do want them get them.

 

[Firestreak]

I'll just point out Rostrum pumps is worthless now pretty much. You can get Yigit without an LS, just do 15 3 man assaults.

Yigit hands aren't a bad alternative to A hands either.. especially for tarus who don't wanna lose 50 HP.

Next up just to point out it's not just BLM who act like they're doing people a favor by sticking around after getting their gear. It's anyone who has their gear that starts to take that attitude. It's more of a personality thing than a job thing.

 

[Firestreak]

By the way, anyone making the argument about sky for gil, just stop. Gil is an added bonus to sky, but it's not worth the time put in by any means. And no all the better gil making ways are not "solo" so people have to do sky for the company. There are plenty of NMs you can hunt in groups that give more gil for less time.

 

[Bajaratt]

well said, however, im not sure what kind of impact this will have on rmt in sky. I think it will slow down the game for everyone, and if rmt stays up there, then it will just be worse.

Once again, this change is not weakening the job, only weakening the linkshells that depend on huge numbers of blm's to kill anything. Hell, this isn't even a nerf in that the job itself isn't effected in the slightest With the Rng nerf, they actually modified the job, this time they're modifying the monsters. Stop crying foul like SE just said "Blm's too strong, all nukes now do half damage." This stops the stacking of the job, but doesn't weaken the actual job.

You're also ignoring that we're not the only server out there, and that manaburning everything is more prevalent on other servers. There's the manaburn dynamis linkshell that Odon tried to emulate

 

[Stouter]

Next up just to point out it's not just BLM who act like they're doing people a favor by sticking around after getting their gear. It's anyone who has their gear that starts to take that attitude. It's more of a personality thing than a job thing.

Yeah, and it's also not just blms that get their shit then stop showing. But when your ls builds the fights are built around blms, it's noticed when you lose one. It's not noticed so much when you lose a drg.

Sky isn't great money, but it's still decent gil unless your shell uses the money items for it's players (in which case it's most likely an all around end game shell and the arguement doesn't matter) or unless rare/ex drops aren't weighed in when payday comes around. If you're getting the same amount of gil for the same amount of time that the rng that just got an osode is getting, and you haven't needed anything from sky in 8 months, you're not gonna get any real gil from sky.

Any NM that you can take down with a small group that drops good money is typically camped by a small group of RMT regularly. Almost all of the exceptions are items that would plummet in value if the NM was constantly camped.

 

[Lavi]

What the fuck are you talking about? Efficiency doesn't matter in endgame? 45 hour vs 45 minute kirin doesn't matter? I suppose every endgame linkshell you've ever been in the end got every piece of endgame gear that all the members wanted?

You miss the point. Being inefficient in end game isn't like a party. A party's performance is based entirely off efficiency while end game content isn't. You get one payload per mob and that's dependant on luck more than anything. Time has nothing to do with it so having BLMs to make it faster (whether it's effect is huge or not has yet to be seen) is irrelevant. It's like having a job. You are paid either per hour or per amount of work. If you are paid per hour, your performance or efficiency doesn't matter, you will get the same amount in the end. If you are paid per amount of work (deliver newspapers or mow lawns), you will earn more by being more efficient like an exp party.

The point I am trying to make is even with BLMs being weakened, you aren't ruining sky and you analogy between sky and exp parties is flawed. I am not suggesting it will take 45 hours (it was an exaggeration), but the event will still get done regardless of the extra time it might take. It will have no huge adverse effect like you would like everyone to believe. The time it takes to kill Kirin, the 4 gods or any of the pop NMs is never what limited sky and it never will be. It's has been Ulli and it always will be Ulli. To suggest that nerfing BLMs will ruin sky and slow down everything is just ludicrous and a pathetic attempt to gain sympathy. These are the same arguments RNGs used 1 year ago and last I knew, people still kill Kirin regularly.

 

[Pompidou]

I wonder if 69 levels of being a half level whm with a big mp pool will be enough of a barrier against summoner becoming the next stacked job? Perhaps all the rangers turned black mages looking to get another job nerfed will sub ninja and avatar burn to 75? SE can nerf ranger, and SE can nerf black mage, but SE can't nerf the bandwagonners, and they're the real problem - flocking to any exploitable gimmick and causing the community to turn on said job and bring down SE's ire on it. My guess is that summoners are the next safe ranged damager that people will flock to - what with their physical BPs everyone loves so much. Maybe blue mage has a few tricks up its sleeves that I'm unfamiliar with (don't know much about new jobs yet, personally), and maybe blue mage will be the next bandwagon-till-nerf job. Blue/ninja is certainly more inline with the bandwagonner's interests - anything to minimalize any sort of party support in favor of being the star player with big numbers.

 

[Sirelrohir]

Once again, this change is not weakening the job, only weakening the linkshells that depend on huge numbers of blm's to kill anything. Hell, this isn't even a nerf in that the job itself isn't effected in the slightest With the Rng nerf, they actually modified the job, this time they're modifying the monsters. Stop crying foul like SE just said "Blm's too strong, all nukes now do half damage." This stops the stacking of the job, but doesn't weaken the actual job.

You're also ignoring that we're not the only server out there, and that manaburning everything is more prevalent on other servers. There's the manaburn dynamis linkshell that Odon tried to emulate

Its everyone else that is crying foul that got this nerf imposed in the first place. So some ls have stacked blm. Its already been said you dont need blm for sky. So why not make a all melee sky ls, since for some people this seems to be the root of the problem? Why punish people for wanting to manaburn? Its a viable strategy that is quick and efficient. If your not a blm, why do you care if people are manaburning? Is it affecting you? The fact of the matter is it doesnt affect anyone except blm in endgame.

 

[Bajaratt]

I wonder if 69 levels of being a half level whm with a big mp pool will be enough of a barrier against summoner becoming the next stacked job? Perhaps all the rangers turned black mages looking to get another job nerfed will sub ninja and avatar burn to 75? SE can nerf ranger, and SE can nerf black mage, but SE can't nerf the bandwagonners, and they're the real problem - flocking to any exploitable gimmick and causing the community to turn on said job and bring down SE's ire on it. My guess is that summoners are the next safe ranged damager that people will flock to - what with their physical BPs everyone loves so much. Maybe blue mage has a few tricks up its sleeves that I'm unfamiliar with (don't know much about new jobs yet, personally), and maybe blue mage will be the next bandwagon-till-nerf job. Blue/ninja is certainly more inline with the bandwagonner's interests - anything to minimalize any sort of party support in favor of being the star player with big numbers.

Exactly, the jobs themselves are fine, it's the flocking to any sort of imbalance and exploiting the hell out of it that causes SE to make changes to the game. If the people weren't the ones zerging with blm's then SE would never have any reason to make changes to the jobs.

 

[neophytal]

See though, the thing about A.Hands is that it "replaces" our AF1 hands. Sure Zenith Mitts are great when we're fighting things that are TW-T/low VT. But all the things that we fight in sky Gods/Kirin for the most part we use our AF1 hands so whats the point of getting them if we'll only use them in XP parties? Or atleast, whats the point in stressing their "usefulness"? Its like loading up on Str/Atk but having piss poor Acc. So what if you have the ability to land for a ton of damage if you can rarly hit the guy for your full damage anyway?

if you have enough elemental magic through other gear (or merits), you can use zenith mitts.

 

[Ibariba]

It would be laughable, if through this update, SE actually changed BLM's role to 3rd rate Healers and DD - similar to SMN, "to even out mage jobs on NM's," in a way much like the typical melee versus NM's. :roll:

 

[Bajaratt]

Its everyone else that is crying foul that got this nerf imposed in the first place. So some ls have stacked blm. Its already been said you dont need blm for sky. So why not make a all melee sky ls, since for some people this seems to be the root of the problem? Why punish people for wanting to manaburn? Its a viable strategy that is quick and efficient. If your not a blm, why do you care if people are manaburning? Is it affecting you? The fact of the matter is it doesnt affect anyone except blm in endgame.

Who cried foul? Honestly, who sent a message to SE saying "I want blm nerfed"? It couldn't possibly be that SE monitors large forums for XI and found out about blm zerging and thought "maybe we should do something about this," no it's all because of the people who are so "jealous" of blm's. I don't buy that there were very many people writing letters so much as there were tons of blm's and linkshells bragging about how easy everything is in a manaburn. It's the people flaunting the imbalance that's leading to these nerfs, just like with the rng nerf. You brought this on yourselves, so grow some balls and own up to it.

Yes, Manaburning is a viable tactic, one that I wouldn't really care about if it wasn't the ONLY tactic that people are willing to use. I don't hate the blm job itself either, but at the point where everything is done with "blm-only" that it DOES effect everyone else. When people refuse to do anything that's not manaburned, then something should be changed.

 

[Darthyoda]

Who cried foul? Honestly, who sent a message to SE saying "I want blm nerfed"? It couldn't possibly be that SE monitors large forums for XI and found out about blm zerging and thought "maybe we should do something about this," no it's all because of the people who are so "jealous" of blm's. I don't buy that there were very many people writing letters so much as there were tons of blm's and linkshells bragging about how easy everything is in a manaburn. It's the people flaunting the imbalance that's leading to these nerfs, just like with the rng nerf. You brought this on yourselves, so grow some balls and own up to it.

Yes, Manaburning is a viable tactic, one that I wouldn't really care about if it wasn't the ONLY tactic that people are willing to use. I don't hate the blm job itself either, but at the point where everything is done with "blm-only" that it DOES effect everyone else. When people refuse to do anything that's not manaburned, then something should be changed.

please tell me what is "manaburned only" besides DM, which blm's scarcely get invites to, or KS30's that rarely yield anything for blm's to use.

I'm interested to know what I and my blm comrades should be focusing on until the nerf.... LoL