US draft bill to be introduced to congress

[Arctyrael]

I think part of what Aither is implying is true, big daddy may have had a bit to do with his insistence of destroying Iraq.

as for the current situation there, Skaw (/shudder), is also right.

I don't support the war, but seriously, what other options do we have? Immediately withdrawing troops is not an option imo.

 

[Aither]

I think part of what Aither is implying is true, big daddy may have had a bit to do with his insistence of destroying Iraq.

as for the current situation there, Skaw (/shudder), is also right.

I don't support the war, but seriously, what other options do we have? Immediately withdrawing troops is not an option imo.

What true red blooded american who loves his country and family wouldn't try to help get what his father failed to do, done? Face it bush is a moron 100% but as a person I can see why he would invade Iraq. WMD's just an excuse to clean up the spots his father missed and make daddy proud.

 

[Aither]

You Canucks sure know how to settle things right. B)

Fucking right we do, when was the last time Canada started a war in the last 100 years?

Oh oh oh thats right...never.

I think we do have a good idea on how to settle things, its called NOT INVADING OTHER COUNTRIES FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES

 

[RoM]

Hey guys, sure, let's recall all the troops and let the radicals reclaim and just replace Suddam with another Jihad Joe that'll cause more deaths in the long term. You Canucks sure know how to settle things right. B)

Thats why we're there. We're not there for the "War on Terror" anymore. We're there to prevent a civil war that'll just make things worse than they were beforehand. If you think the Solider casualties are high, you'd shit yourself over what civilian casualties would be if we weren't there. And hey, they'd just be getting murdered for being part of a different branch of Islam - not because they're an enemy of the country. Going in was a mistake, no one doubts that. Leaving it as it is now would be a larger mistake.

Seriously, read a news paper sometime guys, and ignore the sensationalist "omfg troops are dying bush is hitler" horseshit.

The only problem i have with this string of statements is it's not the people of iraq who put saddam there in the first place, we did. At this point we're basicly and quite simply cleaning up our own unforseen fuckups due to endeavours to stabilize the region from the late 60s on in the middle east. We're directly responsible for the leadership in Iran also, you don't hear these things much because it's frankly a huge political black eye no one stateside wants to show limelight on. We're not infallable and in most cases we've been downright wrong with our alliances and choices made both militarily and politically in the middle-east, but at this point unfortunately the 'what other choice do we have now?' line is dead on. We're fucked and can't get unfucked without rioting in the streets here or peace in the streets there (which wont happen... ever.)

And it's a little jaded to say we're there to prevent civil war without also acknowledging that if we had gone in with a clear plan with even the most BASIC withdrawl strategy we could've been done with the mess by now. But hey, american companies make money to rebuild the cities over there ... the more that blow up the better off we all are, amirite? Philanthropy aside; there's no money in the cure just the treatment... and we'll be getting alot more of the treatment for the next 3-5 years until someone without the head up their ass grabs hold of the reigns and gets our shit together as a country.

Side note: more folks (soldiers and civilians) have died since we went to war than under saddams regime; it just so happens they weren't mass executions or gassings. Food for thought.

Edit: look mommy! i can spell

 

[Arkangel]

The only problem i have with this string of statements is it's not the people of iraq who put saddam there in the first place, we did. At this point we're basicly and quite simply cleaning up our own unforseen fuckups due to endeavours to stabilize the region from the late 60s on in the middle east. We're directly responsible for the leadership in Iran also, you don't hear these things much because it's frankly a huge political black eye no one stateside wants to show limelight on. We're not infallable and in most cases we've been downright wrong with our alliances and choices made both militarily and politically in the middle-east, but at this point unfortunately the 'what other choice do we have now?' line is dead on. We're fucked and can't get unfucked without rioting in the streets here or peace in the streets there (which wont happen... ever.)

And it's a little jaded to say we're there to prevent civil war without also acknowledging that if we had gone in with a clear plan with even the most BASIC withdrawl strategy we could've been done with the mess by now. But hey, american companies make money to rebuild the cities over there ... the more that blow up the better off we all are, amirite? Philanthropy aside; there's no money in the cure just the treatment... and we'll be getting alot more of the treatment for the next 3-5 years until someone without the head up their ass grabs hold of the reigns and gets our shit together as a country.

Side note: more folks (soldiers and civilians) have died since we went to war than under saddams regime; it just so happens they weren't mass executions or gassings. Food for thought.

Edit: look mommy! i can spell

I tottaly agree with you, to reinstate a draft would be absurd, we already have soldiers over there dying without a cause and why? Because Bush dosent want to admit he was wrong i fear the draft and having to answer to a butch of pupets who is being guided by an idiotic pupetmaster.

We should have never invaded Iraq in the 1st place but since we did, when saddam was captured he should have been killed on the spot, and our troops should have withdawn, you cannot hold a man prisoner for crimes he didn't commit. Basically it seens as if bush is trying to pick up where saddam left off, by demostaring his authority and waving his iornfist in a country not under his rule. To come to an end, Bush is jealous, not only of saddam but of other dictators, so he tries to justify his actions by posing them as a treat.

Where was bush when the US was really under terroist attacks, where is bush when they incarcirate and sentence ppl to die when they are innocent, where is bush when hundreds of guilty criminals roam the streets commiting crimes and being let out of jail with a killer intent, where was bush when they were raising property values in Louisiana, making it immpossible for the below 2nd class citezens to return home.

Democracy has failed, not because it is a poor form of govenment (actually it could be the best form) but because the figure heads are to contempt on bending and breaking the laws to their fasion rather than upholding them or inforcing them correctly, they are too busy trying to take from others what does nt belong to them rather than sharing with others

 

[RoM]

whoa whoa whoa now. I'm not laying it on bush solely, he's simply where the buck stopped or at least held up for a minute for almost half a century now. Surely he's not the greatest president we've ever seen for one reason or another but to lay everything at the guy's feet as opposed to his administration and a half century of history biting him in the nuts is a bit unfair, i think. It's lacks perspective.

 

[Arkangel]

whoa whoa whoa now. I'm not laying it on bush solely, he's simply where the buck stopped or at least held up for a minute for almost half a century now. Surely he's not the greatest president we've ever seen for one reason or another but to lay everything at the guy's feet as opposed to his administration and a half century of history biting him in the nuts is a bit unfair, i think. It's lacks perspective.

Lol ok maybe i did hand bush alittle too many anarhcy points but it makes me upset that he is focusing so much on war and our countries "Defence" that he doesnt stop to figure out whats going wrong inside the country and why we need to pull all the troops out of Iraq, i mean yes, if we do pull out now their country would most likly go up in flames but we have done so much o their political system that that is enevitable in the future

 

[Halifirien]

you cannot hold a man prisoner for crimes he didn't commit.

We do it all the time these days.

 

[Arkangel]

We do it all the time these days.

True but dosent make it less wrong

 

[Halifirien]

Not saying it's right. In fact, it's one of those nifty little "changes" inspired by post-9/11 hysteria that eventually will go down in history as one of clear signs the United States went right off the rails.

 

[Faule]

I support the idea of helping people in Iraq/Afganistan/whatever from their corrupt leaders. But when you have annihilated the leader and given them the chance to run their own country, it's time to leave. Whether that is ready now or later, I don't know. But no one gave Americans the right to just take over. They have different customs, religions and values. You can't just impose on the country because you don't agree with their ways. Some countries don't believe in what, say, North Americans do in their daily lives but they don't feel the need to impose their beliefs on us. People need to understand that things have been the way they are in some of these countries for thousands of years. It's not that easy to change something like that.

Although I support some aspects of the war, I think that ensuring the freedom of the citizens is first priority. Human rights should be entitled to everyone afterall. I understand that basically the main reason to invade Iraq/Afganistan was for this purpose, but we all know there were definite benefits and other priorities hidden behind the curtain. Like hoping to find some "weapons of mass destruction" and the chance of obtaining some of the oil revenue in that country.

You can't denote everything about what the americans have done. There's just some certain points which could have been done better by the government to help the citizens of the middle east.

I believe that the priority of this mission persay is now to Peacekeep. Nothing more, nothing less. Once moderate peace can be reached in the those countries, everyone can get back to what they want and choose a leader they feel is right for their culture, which may not be what americans would choose. You can't impose your culture on to a system older than your country itself.

There's my rambling of a Canadian. You don't have to agree with me. And you don't need to tell me I'm wrong and bitch at me for not knowing because I'm "not an american." I just hold the opinion of a person that gets to view this situation from the outside rather than in the middle of it. Unbiased from where I stand in Canada.

Want to bitch at me about this and tell me I'm wrong? Go ahead. Like everyone else on here, just because you say something, doesn't mean I have to follow your way or die. Let people have their own opinion. What are they going to do about it anyways? Is that one person going to change the world?

Remember when we torched your whitehouse? That was some funny shit.

 

[Fonzy]

The only reason USA is in Afgan is because NYC go lolpwned by 747's.

you got to be fucking kidding me? This is the canadian response to 9/11? lolpwned?

From america with love... a sincere Fuck you

 

[Fonzy]

Side note: more folks (soldiers and civilians) have died since we went to war than under saddams regime; it just so happens they weren't mass executions or gassings. Food for thought.

statistics please. I've heard numbers of 700,000 iraqi casualties estimated by the country of iraq(this includes civilian and militants) and a lower number around 400,000 by US sources. Prior to the war the UN estimated 1-1.3 million people died in iraq under sadam hussien's rule yearly(also compounded by UN sanction however that number seemed high as well)

so, please post some facts to back your assertment

 

[Trippyhippy]

The only reason USA is in Afgan is because NYC go lolpwned by 747's.

767's.

Surely he's not the greatest president we've ever seen...

and 80 grit sandpaper isn't an ideal substitute for toilet paper.

statistics please. I've heard numbers of 700,000 iraqi casualties estimated by the country of iraq(this includes civilian and militants) and a lower number around 400,000 by US sources. Prior to the war the UN estimated 1-1.3 million people died in iraq under sadam hussien's rule yearly(also compounded by UN sanction however that number seemed high as well)

so, please post some facts to back your assertment

http://www.zmag.org/lancet.pdf
http://web.mit.edu/CIS/pdf/Human_Cost_of_War.pdf
Yeah, it got much worse.

 

[Fonzy]

Whether that is ready now or later, I don't know. But no one gave Americans the right to just take over..

this is war, moral grey, historically victory in war is right enough. Noone "bestows" the right to rule a country, it is won. The fact is the ruling body in Iraq was removed by the US and some kind of government was needed to stabalize the country

They have different customs, religions and values. You can't just impose on the country because you don't agree with their ways...

uhm... with all due respect... yes you can. It may seem morally wrong but that is irrelivant because it happens all the time, especially in the middle east. with that said, I haven't heard instances of the US imposing it's values on Iraq by redifining local values, restricting religous freedom or violating customs.

Some countries don't believe in what, say, North Americans do in their daily lives but they don't feel the need to impose their beliefs on us. ...

I suggest doing some serious reading, because MANY indeed do. The whole idea behind islamofascism is to eliminate all ideology that is not part of their own.... similar to naziism

People need to understand that things have been the way they are in some of these countries for thousands of years. It's not that easy to change something like that. ...

I don't think so much people are trying to change religion, customs, and values in iraq so much as trying to stop sunni's from killing shiites and vice versa.

I understand that basically the main reason to invade Iraq/Afganistan was for this purpose,...

I actually disagree with this. The entire reason for invasion was to secure american interest in the country. The war may not have been sold that way, but have no doubt if there were not considerable american interest in invading iraq we would not have gone. There are just as bad if not worse human rights violaters found all throughout the world we feel no compulsion to correct. Iraq was targeted as it had opposed the United states militarily for a decade, constantly violated terms of the gulf war, controlled and held hostage one of the worlds largest oil supplies and possibley posed a future nuclear threat to the middle east. It was also a great starting point for installing a friendly government in a region notoriously hostile to western nations.

and the chance of obtaining some of the oil revenue in that country....

this is somewhat innacurtate as the revenue of iraqi oil sales only benefits iraqi's where as the US can be seen more as a consumer instead of a seller.

You can't denote everything about what the americans have done. There's just some certain points which could have been done better by the government to help the citizens of the middle east. ....

well, quite frankly, I know it's all hands-across-the-world days in the world and globalism is taking over pretty much, but I really don't feel the need to pretend concern for Iraqis and play the role of hypocrit. With that said, the role of the US government in my mind is to protect the soveriegnty of the united states with or without the concern of the Iraqi peoples in mind. Personally I opposed going to war with any country not imposing said threat but I understand the reason for doing such and the nature in which it is being waged. It's a slippery slope, the idea of world police is asinine.

There's my rambling of a Canadian. You don't have to agree with me..

Well, I appreciate the fact that you are capable of expounding your views as a canadian and not spewing anti-american sentiment in the same breathe. Really I don't get why some people love to point their fingers and so opportunistically decry every action the US takes when for the most part they are wholey unaffected. The vitriol I see from some canadians is truley shocking.

Remember when we torched your whitehouse? That was some funny shit.

uh yeah, maybe I should retract my last paragraph.

 

[RoM]

statistics please. I've heard numbers of 700,000 iraqi casualties estimated by the country of iraq(this includes civilian and militants) and a lower number around 400,000 by US sources. Prior to the war the UN estimated 1-1.3 million people died in iraq under sadam hussien's rule yearly(also compounded by UN sanction however that number seemed high as well)

so, please post some facts to back your assertment

assertment my well planted fat white ass.

Trip beat me to it but know that it's your job to educate yourself to hold your own in a conversation not mine to teach you. If you happen to be curious hit google or post your own facts to debunk my statements. I'm not about to go wasting my time talking out of my ass. I do my homework, just to explain it in small words or let someone else tell you via link just shows you can't be bothered to know before you speak. I take my time to keep abreast of subjects that take my interest, can you say the same?

 

[Skaw]

Yeah, the United States isn't trying make Iraq a 51st state. The only thing actively being changed by us is the government - not the customs and values of its people. Granted, the entire Middle East would be a lot better if some of them were removed though.

 

[Strid]

Fucking right we do, when was the last time Canada started a war in the last 100 years?

Oh oh oh thats right...never.

I think we do have a good idea on how to settle things, its called NOT INVADING OTHER COUNTRIES FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES

You don't do what you CAN'T do, simple as that. Funny thing, if you weren't so lucky as to be connected to the U.S., or our current ways didn't exist, you'd probably be eating those words right now while each and every other country in the world took turns turning you over and fucking your balloon knot. Take to many bricks to the face as a younger kid or just trying to talk about something you really do not need to be?

 

[Marajade]

You don't do what you CAN'T do, simple as that. Funny thing, if you weren't so lucky as to be connected to the U.S., or our current ways didn't exist, you'd probably be eating those words right now while each and every other country in the world took turns turning you over and fucking your balloon knot. Take to many bricks to the face as a younger kid or just trying to talk about something you really do not need to be?

I refer you to the song "War of 1812" by the Arrogant Worms.

 

[Celvantes]

Isn't going to happen. The military will fight a draft tooth and nail for the simple reason that conscripts suck ass.

100% volunteer force >>>> draftees. We learned that lesson well in Vietnam.