Use the Windower? Watch what you say

He's saying the basic function of the windower, ie. running the game in a window has nothing to do with XI. All the plugins and stuff has to do with XI, but that's not what he's talking about. You seriously have selective reading.
 
Tyran said:
OMG Dude it does have something to do with FFXI its called "Reverse Engineering". This alows you to read data that your not supposed to be able to read.
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Bullshit.

Bullshit bullshit bullshit.

I dont care how long Mr. Know It All on Allakhazam's quote is, nor do I care how many references he makes to reverse engineering, nor how many definitions of reverse engineering he quotes.

The fact of the matter is, if azaril or cliff had 'reverse engineered' FFXI, they would have the source code to it, and be able to make a working replica.

So your argument is... in the truest essence... bullshit.
 
Ok, so you don't like the plugins, not the windower itself.
 
Bajaratt said:
Ok, so you don't like the plugins, not the windower itself.
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Yeah, if thats all he's saying, then he can just... not use the plugins? People who want to cheat are going to cheat regardless if it's easy/hard.
 
Yeah. I personally loved knowing everyone's TP and MP, it meant I didn't have to keep asking what their TP was. After I saw the threads about people getting banned for using it, I took out the plugins, but kept the windower, sinec that's all I wanted in the first place.
 
wow tyran still at it eh? I like to remind you that most of the Jp made the Ingame Map program's and Bot's, not NA.. so stop bothering with this nonsence... People use the windower for its convenience... not cheating, and if they are cheating they should be punished... so stop bring this up more and more.. you make it sould like if I were to play CS: source, while reading a forum that ,thats cheating... OMG it isnt
 
I agree it is a good idea - plug ins. The only thing I was tring to agrue is that its not alowed by SE. And who knows maybe some from SE..... wil read this post and it will be in the next update. As for now Its Third party. You want use it fine. I do not like the idea (because of my previous arguments) but if you like use it. Just remember when you start to flame SE for banning you dont ask why. Good debate, I'm glad we can do this with out name call and other childish crap.

P.S. Skaw am I too much of a debater to be in the BastokanMilitia LS? :lol:
 
there gonna ban us because we chose to play the Game In a window, hahaha .. if SE really cared, they would listen to us and make it so you can window the game.
 
Tyran said:
I agree it is a good idea - plug ins. The only thing I was tring to agrue is that its not alowed by SE. And who knows maybe some from SE..... wil read this post and it will be in the next update. As for now Its Third party. You want use it fine. I do not like the idea (because of my previous arguments) but if you like use it. Just remember when you start to flame SE for banning you dont ask why. Good debate, I'm glad we can do this with out name call and other childish crap.

P.S. Skaw am I too much of a debater to be in the BastokanMilitia LS? :lol:
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That's the thing though, no one was saying you were wrong, everyone agreed that it wasn't allowed by SE. We were saying that we didn't care, because it was useful as hell.
 
After reading 8 pages of posts, I'm now ready and able to post.

I absolutely don't know how I ever played the game without windower!

The post that I must reference to first, is near the very beginning pages about losing full screen mode all the time. It was very annoying to me, having a mule sitting in Bastok trying to sell ores, just to wake up in the morning and see that retarded as hell message with a full bazaar. That was my original use for windower.

Then as I got further into the game, I liked being about to talk to friends on AIM and play at the same time, so I just left windower active - partying, farming, ls chatting. I never turned it off.

I'm not here to say that the windower isn't a 3rd party program, and that it isn't illegal - b/c it is. It is illegal as hell under the EULA (especially with the new additions) I however, don't care b/c of what it has enabled me to do. SE should make FFXI windowable ANYWAYS, so that none of this bullshit can be argued about.

I'm not sure why PS2 users have a dog in this fight... PC is in no way related to PS2 other than the fact that the game is cross platform. Its all in what/how you choose to play the game.

If there was a BASIC windower, that did nothing but allow me to alt-tab, it is what I would use. Currently, I have 3.2 with loadTP disabled.

I don't give a shit about the additions, and if SE wants to ban me over it, the GM can just take it in the ass as I tell him that SE will not get any further monthly payments from me.


I am arguing for the ease of use of windower. PC were meant to multi task, not be hijacked.
 
RAWR!!! YOU ARE ALL USING WINDOWXERZ
I WILL USE MY DIVINE POWERS AND
CAST TELEPORT-MORDION GAOL!!!

NOW YOU SHALL BE SODOMIZED BY THE
INMATES FOR YOUR ACT OF TREACHERY!!!

YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE
MAKE YOUR TIME

HA HA HA HA . . .

ALL YOUR OUTPOST ARE BELONG TO US

Hahahahahaha

This topic is too hilarious.

It would have completely gone unnoticed by my eyes unless good ol'
Bluewind hadn't pointed it out to me after I got my Opo-Opo Crown.

Thanks, Bluey. I needed the laugh. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
DeviFoxx said:
RAWR!!! YOU ARE ALL USING WINDOWXERZ
I WILL USE MY DIVINE POWERS AND
CAST TELEPORT-MORDION GAOL!!!

NOW YOU SHALL BE SODOMIZED BY THE
INMATES FOR YOUR ACT OF TREACHERY!!!

YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE
MAKE YOUR TIME

HA HA HA HA . . .

ALL YOUR OUTPOST ARE BELONG TO US

Hahahahahaha

This topic is too hilarious.

It would have completely gone unnoticed by my eyes unless good ol'
Bluewind hadn't pointed it out to me after I got my Opo-Opo Crown.

Thanks, Bluey. I needed the laugh. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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You won't be laughing if you get suspended, now would you?
 
For some reason this all reminds me of the whiny bitches that scream and moan over getting caught speeding by the cops.

It's a 3rd party program. SE is within their rights to ban you for using it, and they always have been. The windower makes it considerably easier to run OTHER 3rd party programs while playing FFXI.

Should FFXI have been windowed to start? Sure. But it ain't. So don't cry when someone catches you with it, or rats you out to a GM and you wind up spending time in jail.
 
Raesvelg said:
For some reason this all reminds me of the whiny bitches that scream and moan over getting caught speeding by the cops.

It's a 3rd party program. SE is within their rights to ban you for using it, and they always have been. The windower makes it considerably easier to run OTHER 3rd party programs while playing FFXI.

Should FFXI have been windowed to start? Sure. But it ain't. So don't cry when someone catches you with it, or rats you out to a GM and you wind up spending time in jail.
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I seriously doubt a GM would do a thing if someone else said that I was running a windower, especially when they don't do shit to people who admit they're gil sellers.
 
I think the real topic of conversation is how could a GM prove you were using it if you didnt admit to it. It doesnt directly affect the game data, and shouldnt be able to be read or detected by a GM unless SE has some sort of snooping program on your computer... all the TP and such messages are client side.
 
I don't really have the time right now to read all eight pages, but I did read the first two. I see valid justifications on both sides of the argument and I do understand that probably at least half, if not more, of the people who use a windower do not also use that program to cheat in FFXI.

That being, said I still agree with Tyran based on the principle of his argument. When you first purchased this game, it game with a book. Most of us did not bother to read very much of the book, because frankly it's poorly written (IMO). However, at the end of each section of the book is the Terms of Service Agreement. In that agreement, which you willingly consent to abide by everytime you click "Accept" when you log on, it SPECIFICALLY states that the use of ANY third-party programs than in ANY way alter ANY settings, files, etc of Play Online, Tetra Master, Final Fantasy, etc is expressly prohibited. So the principle is, while windower itself may not give any sort of an advantage to a player it is still against the rules. Rules agreed upon by all players. Yes, it is true that there are a lot of players out there who DON'T play by our "social contract" so to speak, but that doesn't mean we should just abandon the rules in favor of despotic anarchy. I am a firm believer in a sort of special importance and value of rules. Even if I don't agree with them, I still feel that it is even more important for me to follow the rules.

The best analogy I can think of that I think summarizes it best is the analogy of speeding. Yes I do speed from time to time, especially if I am trying to get somewhere at a certain time. I willingly violate the agreed-upon rules which state I can only travel so fast in certain zones and if I violate these rules I will be subject to possible penalties. Keep in mind these rules are agreed upon not in the sense that my input was asked when creating them, but agreed upon in the sense that when I sign my driver's license I am accepting the responsibility to adhere to rules created by others, in exchange for the privilege of being able to travel about freely. Now, if I am speeding and I get pulled over and the cop wants to give me a ticket, I have to be willing to accept that fact. I knowingly and willingly violated the "terms of service" with regards to driving. Sure, I could throw a fit, or lie, or try to find some way to get out of the ticket, but my argument would, in truth, have no foundation. The most ethical thing for me to do would be to accept my punishment, try to avoid the same situation again, and move on with my life. Like CubsWoo and others have said, you use the windower at your own risk. If you don't like the fact that SE can jail you or ban then you have two choices. You can either adbide by the ToS and not use windower or you can not play FFXI. But you have to understand that if you get caught, there can and should be consequences and you really have nothing to cry about since you knowingly and willingly broke the rules, regardless of how silly you think that rule may be.
 
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