VENT!

[Palum_Q]

Ok, this is just one of my normal rants. I consider myself a good whm. However, I am petrified when the party is only a meat party (ie. all damage dealers, no magic users). Maybe I'm deficient that I like having a back up healer to fall upon but I just think it helps a lot.

I was in a party today and it had to be one of the less productive parties I've ever been in. Before I go any further, I'd like to say Valcore and Sandroi are excluded from any fault because they did their job. Sandroi probably did his tanking job, too well..lol.

I was in a party with a Rng/war. To this point, I've only ever heard of these as many people choose rng/nin or rng/thf. So first thing he says when he joins the party, "Oh yeah, you better find a warrior because even though I have a warrior, I am not voking" He was referring to that we needed a SATA buddy. Fine fine..no one expected a weak VIT ranger to SATA off of, esepecially with the hate they accumulate. Then the ranger is like "oh, does anyone have any food? I don't have any" because he was spending all his money on arrows apparently. (I don't check people's equipment so I don't know how caught up he was.)

This is not a good sign........and I even tell my LS...I don't have a good feeling about this. So what happens, the ranger pulls..... to my mistake, I do believe there was ONE voke at the beginning, which is basically supposed to set up SATA. The ranger, does his little, Beserk, barrage, 420 damage, he is now dead. I feel really bad as I am wasting all my mp trying to keep a low VIT ranger alive.

Next battle, our tank (Sandroi) dies and I know we're trying to set up SATA but when one of the tanks has 24hp and the other SATA buddy has over 580....I think we can spare the setup in order to keep the party alive, but no, he died and I felt bad yet again.

The next battle, went fine but the battle after, the ranger does the SAME thing, this time with a sharpshot..... Then what does he say? "I can't do anything without getting hate." So I respond "Well, you can CLOSE the battle with barrage. Dead things can't hate you." Then he responds "yeah, I suppose. " and "I can't get exp when I'm dead." I swear this might not been a jab at me, but I'm going to take it as a jab to me.

He mocks my mp at 424, where I'm a level 33 taru whm. Basically, the only way I can increase it more would be too eat tons of food. However, he can't even criticize me about that when he doesn't even bring his own damn food. An elvaan should not be like "Oh, 420 is your max mp?" *sigh* The only people Elvaan's should be mocking at for mp is galkas. I know my limits. I'm not going to go up to an elvaan and say, can't you do any more damage when I'm not exactly built to be the Terminator.

With that being said, I think this was more geared towards the ranger who:
- wouldn't let me full heal at the BEGINNING of a chain, ie: let's pull when Palum has 300/424 mp to start the first mob.
- didn't 'know' that beserk/barrage did so much damage even though he's 32-33.
- doesn't bring his own food
- doesn't even think of using the barrrage at the end of the battle.

I'm expecting to get the "You were just a bad whm" and to be honest, I felt like the shittiest whm today so I'm perfectly fine with that. I think i've been permanently scared away from being the only healer in a party.

 

[alanon]

Dont feel bad, it was his own fault hands down. It's no different than a Blm opening up with AM, the Rng just doesn't know how to control hate. /War is not a bad sub for Rng, but you experienced half the reason why most sub nin :utetsemi, the other half being dual wield archer knives and AGI bonus.

 

[Roofie]

theres nothing wrong with only one healer ive only had one healer in all of my parties as of late but they are also dual blink tank parties so i guess the one healer workz pretty well there. one healer is really all u need if u got a good party going. looks like the only problem was the rng. one person can easily make a great party turn sour and when that happens u just replace the bad apple with a good one b4 things go to hell in a hand basket.

 

[Palum_Q]

theres nothing wrong with only one healer ive only had one healer in all of my parties as of late but they are also dual blink tank parties so i guess the one healer workz pretty well there. one healer is really all u need if u got a good party going. looks like the only problem was the rng. one person can easily make a great party turn sour and when that happens u just replace the bad apple with a good one b4 things go to hell in a hand basket.

Well Roofie, I have had good experiences with only being the whm. For instance, when I partied with you the one time, there was little problem. I think I just get upset when people die on me..LOL

 

[Roofie]

i learned how to use barrage by the time i hit 31. its pretty easy actually since the only thing to learn is if u use it too early u die. ppl die every day tho, no point in getting upset about it

 

[Rones]

It was just a bad party setup. Ideally you will have 3 mages when playing as whm. My favorite setups include brd, whm, blm - rdm, whm, blm - whm, blm, blm. Having 5 melees with only one whm is just asking for problems unless you have a nin tank and some rngs that know how to control their dmg. Anytime you are with a pld fighting IT and you're the only mage things will go sour. Even if you can keep them alive the lack of a mp refresher for the pld will cause nasty downtime. Sounds like you made the best of it and there isn't any reason to blame yourself. As well, any rng going all out at the start of the fight deserves to die.

I was in a party with a Rng/war. To this point, I've only ever heard of these as many people choose rng/nin or rng/thf.

Subbing war is actually a pretty good for rng. Subbing nin is usually considered the best because of blink and dual wielding +accu daggers. Yet, /war gives them berserk to give their dmg a real nice boost at the cost of blink defence which means you need a good tank. If partied with a brd and a pld there is no reason not to sub war really, since the brd will already give you more than enough +accu and pld should be able to keep the hate off depending on what lvl. A rng subbing thf is a fool. Thf abilities are worthless for a rng and don't even mention stats since any fully lvled sub will only have a couple points of difference per sub.

 

[Synical]

nah, pt setup was ok i bet. you had a shitty rng.
yeah great, we kill stuff hard and fast. thats great solo when its just you your bow and a mob thattl own you if it doesnt die in 4 hits.
Partying is Teamwork. that rng needs to learn it.
~Syn

 

[cocyte]

PLD tank speaking, two things palum :
- The whitemage who will be able to keep a ranger tank alive for a whole fight doen't exist.
- There is nothing (i must insist nothing) a tank can do (even a PLD taru) to take hate back from a barrage at the beginning of the fight ! (or the RNG have to completely stop doing damages)

In my opinion the 30 second of the fight (between the two first voke) are crucial for a tank. It's when the hate is settled (or not in your case). I have experienced that when a tank lose hate during this period he will have a lot a difficulties to keep it during the fight (a message to the backup tanks : please dont voke during this period if you dont want to be promoted main tank). So a ranger (RNG/WAR ! = more hate, no blink) spamming arrows and WS during this short period = MY WORST NIGHTMARE (sorry for the caps )

P.S : He was mocking you taru taru MP ... an Elvaan RNG ! LOL ! (plz dont flame, i have nothing against elvaan RNG, but i think a taru taru is much more suited for a being a WHM than an elvaan for being a RNG and being a galka PLD I know what "not perfectly suited for a job" mean :mrgreen: ).

 

[Rones]

nah, pt setup was ok i bet.

5 melees and 1 whm is an ok setup? And coming from a 75? On top of that a pld tank with a rng and no one to refresh the pld's mp. That's just asking for probems.

RNG/WAR ! = more hate, no blink

I'm trying to understand this statement, but not having much luck. Going off normal programming logic, use of '!=' means 'does not equal' which just doesn't make since in this situation. The statement says a rng/war does not have more hate (possible, but debatable) and does not lack blink (not possible). While I'm usually under the opinion accu is rarely an issue for rng (especially the loss of just one archer's dagger thing) the extra dmg from berserk combined with some strong ws would usually result in more hate and dmg. Why most rng's don't use war even though it allows them to do more dmg is they can reach their hate limit without the extra dmg from war, so they sacrifice some of their potential excess offense for a big boost in defense (eg: blink). Could you perhaps clarify that statement cocyte? Did you really mean 'does equal' instead of 'doesn't equal'?

 

[Palum_Q]

lol...just for the record...there was no paladin... haha...

 

[Pascal]

Each action in the game has a hate modifier, so certain actions in the game generate more hate points than other actions. What most people do not realizes is every time a monster hits you, it subtracts from your hate points, thus causing you to loose hate.

You notice this the most at the start of a fight. If a white mage casts cure at the start of the fight, and heals a person for 30 points, it will generate 60 hate points. The monster will then come over and hit the white mage. If the monster hits the mage for 120 hit points, the white mage, will loose hate and the monster will return to attacking the next person with the highest amount of hate points, with out the tanks doing anything to draw hate back. This is why flash, blind, paralyze are so important, not just because it reduces the amount of MP needed by the healer, but also to prevent the monster from subtracting hate points from the tank. This is why NIN can hold hate, because the monster never does any damage to them, thus there one provoke and the amount of damage they are doing, keeps enough hate points generated.

This is why I get onto WAR tanks that are using a sword and shield. A shield is only going to take off 2 to 6 points of damage from a hit. Regen alone will nullify that. It is far more important that you dodge their hits, while infecting the highest amount of damage.

This is also why I get onto tanks provoking off me, before it hits me. Let it hit me once, then provoke it. If you don’t then I still have 60 hate points generated and my next cure will just generate even more, causing you to have to provoke again later. This is also why mages should not be healing them selves in battle until it is absolutely necessary. Just cast regen on your self and let it do its job, because it will spread the hate points out over time instead of just one lump sum.

 

[Kipsy]

Palum, I partied with Sandroi yesterday in Garlige, we did alright, but he was admitedly drunk off his ass. (Oh, and as a Elvaan WHM 36+pie, I have 424 mp XD XD)

 

[Palum_Q]

Palum, I partied with Sandroi yesterday in Garlige, we did alright, but he was admitedly drunk off his ass. (Oh, and as a Elvaan WHM 36+pie, I have 424 mp XD XD)

Dammit!! you're 36 alreadY??? man.....

Well, I had, 424mp yesterday...i forgot my pie at home...and was just using a mushroom..lol

 

[Duffman]

for no reason. I'm just bored at work and reading all about my new/old
buddy.

 

[Phoku]

umm what was the point of bumping this...... :shock:

 

[Veteran]

Why did you bump a nine-month-old thread? :?

 

[Duffman]

[quote="Duffman]for no reason. I'm just bored at work and reading all about my new/old
buddy.[/quote]

 

[Veteran]

<.<

 

[Xelos]

for no reason. I'm just bored at work and reading all about my new/old
buddy.

I guess it is cool to necro old threads when we get bored.

 

[asiamise]

"Rise of Thread" ?

"Return of the Living Thread"?

"Dawn of the Thread" ?