Warick - The Immature Taru

I'm confused, are you guys social or HNM? I've heard from a few people they were invited under the premise of joining a social ls made up of end game players, and then being scolded for missing mandatory HNM camps.

ps - LOL at the thought of Tymon browsing the site dilligently to uncover whether or not a virus was contained within.
 
Stouter said:
I'm confused, are you guys social or HNM? I've heard from a few people they were invited under the premise of joining a social ls made up of end game players, and then being scolded for missing mandatory HNM camps.
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Some of the people, like myself, joined the LS for social reasons only. I always said though, if they really needed me, I'd help them out. If they had things under control, I wasn't camping anything at the point in time I was with TheNameless. This was understood from day 1 when I took my pearly. Hence why Mora and I are on the outs, I'm sorry to say. I also did not put myself on any lists to receive items. Some officers (who shall remain namelss, excuse the pun) should've checked these things out before goin' off on certain people.

Others joined the shell for HNM reasons.
 
PS. Kinda like me bein' in your shell Stout. I know you camp stuff periodically, but I pop in there just cuz y'all are my friends.
 
I dropped my pearl yesterday. I would assume that makes me greedy, also. Being greedy in FFXI should be manditory. One should not only expect enjoyment and fun out've the game, it should be demanded. Part of the fun is obtaining new items and beating new bosses. I am not entirely sure why Rappa has developed the amount of angst he has on these boards. I will admit that I have not known him for an extended period of time. And I do understand that no end-game shell would ever want a guy who puts everyone around him before himself. The concept makes too much sense.

It's not what has been said that bothers me. It's not even the actions of some that have bothered me. What bothers me is you guys would dare call each other friends and in a weeks time turn on each other and call each other names. Perhaps the shift in shells was nessessary. If you don't think that all of the back and forth slander of each other removes the fun for some people, you're wrong. It might be fun and the highlight of your day, but don't dare assume that everyone enjoys it. The linking of gay porn was wrong. Yes, it is funny in adult audiances, but you don't know if the people who might've been opening the LS link were not 12 year old kids. (Don't throw out the '...12 year old kids open those kind of links on the internet' card, because it's hardly the point.) However, I am glad you took it down. Obviously the ones who you intended to see it have and proper actions have been made.

Charcoip: I am not sure who's sockpuppet you belong to, but a lot've what you've had to say really don't make a great deal of sense on a larger picture.

To those of TheNameLess (present and past).. I honestly do wish you all the best. The majority of you are really nice people. I'd honestly go as far to say that I think you guys honestly meant well and accomplished much.. but the route to that destination was not traveled as well as it could've been. Those of you who would like to continue to keep in contact feel free. Those who wish to slander me in my wake, feel free. I tip my hat.
 
Moraine.. I told Cythe a long time ago that I don't wanna focus on camping HNMs at all times of the day. I have school and other things to take care of and I have personal goals in the game I wanna do. One was getting CoP done. You know damn well if you didn't have COP done you wouldn't make it to every camp, don't lie about that. I came when I was needed and I didn't mind. Also I didn't care about getting an item or not. I still don't care. Items for me aren't gonna make or break the game

About the 9mil, I said that that's the amount I was told you had borrowed and that I wasn't sure about that. Officers said that you had borrowed that much so I was inclined to believe them.

And interesting, MO.. the day before we had a meeting and you seemed quite happy that things were getting more of a focus and were quite ready to stay and help out and get sky started and such. The next day you pulled a complete 180.

Finally, maybe if you didn't notice or not, but this was about Warick not letting us get info off the site at first and linking it to gay porn with a trojan. He fixed that and given us a time period to get info off which is nice. And what I notice is that most left because they weren't getting enough gil outta the LS and that's what they wanted, more gil, more items. Those that left were complaining about gil and items and they even said they needed more gil when they left (atleast some did). That's fine and all, they were honest. And not ONCE have I said we want the stuff that you guys got from the shell back. Perhaps if you read you'd notice that I said you guys DID deserve them. God.. read for once. By the way.. I didn't leave NH for that reason. I left cause I got tired of end game (mostly the game as a whole) took a break for a good 2 months or so and came back. NH had problems, true, and the problem that I had was that most seem to care more about gil than they did about trying to get a HNM and having fun claiming it. Funny.. those that left TheNameless have a problem with not getting enough gil.

This thread is done, it got accomplished what it was intended for, which was to atleast let use get the info off that site.
 
I am asking myself as I type. “Why I am posting this?”, but since I can't think of a reason here goes. I've been a member of this shell since it was a social, since I was rank 1 level 1. What I don't understand is why this is so difficult. The system works when the words "I want" are followed by “my team mates to have”, it’s that simple. I've gone to as many camps as I can because I want a challenge that’s it. Drama begets drama, so one person leaving creates a domino effect, its unfortunate but true. No LS is made in a day a month or 5 months, not IRON, not The Order, none of them, each has its own issues that take time and trial and error to work out. All that I am asking/ saying is that instead of leaving or quitting, say something make a change its not stone, it’s a game. That’s it.
 
One good thing about drama though, is that it seperates the ppl who truly want to be there through the good times and the bad and love the LS so much they wont give up on it, and the ppl who are greedy and shisty in the first place and shouldnt even be there, and ppl, while wanting to be there just for the fun, arent willing to stick it out during the bad times and stay solid with the LS.

I know....off topic and a horrid run on sentence, but oh well. I just wanted to get that out there before I went to sleep. G'night Quetz!
 
Kat said:
PS. Kinda like me bein' in your shell Stout. I know you camp stuff periodically, but I pop in there just cuz y'all are my friends.
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We don't really camp any HNM. We camped some HNM rams and Padfoot for a few days when we had ToD and people on for them, but just had a "Feel free to come out if you want" attitude, since it's easy to solo one of them.

We have had a few rare occasions where "Oh, <insert HNM> is up and nobody is around, let's kill it" and the occasional group NM camp or normal mob camp. We don't expect anyone to show up to any of those things though, even if they are online and not doing anything else.

HNM's are an annoyance, CC'ing friends that are in other shells, and if there's someone else camping it's not gonna be enjoyable, because you end up watching for pop for 3 hours rather than bs'ing with your friends.

Shells that operate under the ideas similar to what I understand TheNameless's to be are great, but the problem comes when you recruit people. It works out well when you have a good group of friends, but then you need to get more people to be able to take on certain mobs, and have enough people to camp them daily. If you can get through the revolving door phase where you weed out the greedy, you'll eventually be left with a good group of people and start to reach that hippie commune stage of end game ls-ness.

But basically what you're saying is that they're a social shell where members can join the HNM section, but aren't required to?
 
Stouter said:
Shells that operate under the ideas similar to what I understand TheNameless's to be are great, but the problem comes when you recruit people.

But basically what you're saying is that they're a social shell where members can join the HNM section, but aren't required to?
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Key words there, Stout. Moraine was recruited. Within 2 weeks of his bein in the shell he was running the show. That's fine, I can understand this part of it, Cythe has a job and there was a lot of pressure on him. Where the problem comes in, especially in my own case, is Moraine getting too much power too fast and thinking he can start telling people who have been in the shell longer than him how it's gonna be. Total bs if you ask me. Not only was he sacked, but made an officer in a tad over 2 weeks of joining. I'm sorry, but I just don't see giving anyone, I don't care how much you camp when you first start, that much leverage. Hence, he looked good, he got their second speed belt drop in a tad over 2 weeks, berated a few people for not coming to certain camps, pissed quite a few people off including myself, left the shell ... what Mora? ... 3 weeks after you joined? I'd say you did a fine job causing a helluva lot of drama.

I left a tad over a week ago, because I just could not take it anymore. Cythe, myself and a few others were in a CoP static together, and I'll be damned if every Thursday nite, Cythe was stressed out over crap that was goin' on in the shell, it was god awful trying to get the missions complete.

I honestly didn't want to air any laundry on the boards, but I'll be damned if Moraine is gonna look all innocent here. Most of this crap started AFTER he joined the shell. The dissension among the people in there.

Lastly, yes, I am saying people can join the shell for social reasons only and not the HNM section. As a matter of fact, the shell is originally a social shell which was converting to HNM eventually. Key word there: eventually.
 
trizzip said:
One good thing about drama though, is that it seperates the ppl who truly want to be there through the good times and the bad and love the LS so much they wont give up on it, and the ppl who are greedy and shisty in the first place and shouldnt even be there, and ppl, while wanting to be there just for the fun, arent willing to stick it out during the bad times and stay solid with the LS.
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You're absolutely right Trizzip. Hence why it says in my sig OuterHeaven. I'm so glad to be home again. I will never leave OH again. I regret the day I listened to my shellmates about breaking the pearl and making a promise to Maseki I never should've made. Stupid on my part totally. I'm home again, and oh so happy.
 
I think the biggest downfall for TheNameless, aside from its beautiful on paper horrible in execution idea of distributing items, is that no one really knew what the heck it was. When I came in I was lead to believe it was an HNMLS. This is also what Cythe would always refer to it as. Then I would privately ask him why Soandso is still in the LS and never does anything and he would say something along the lines of "I'm sure if we really needed them, they would come out". Okay, but if you're in an HNMLS you should want to fight HNMs. We shouldn't be having to drag you kicking and screaming.

The other big downfall is that it grew way too fast way too suddenly. In my last week or two in the shell, I saw at least one person I didn't know every day. All of these new recruits were told completely different things about what the shell is or was. No one was on the same page at all, and many people were never even on the shell unless they wanted something.

Of course, the poorly executed system is what made most of the members leave. I think the biggest kicker that made me realize that the shell was doomed to failure was something Cythe said privately. To paraphrase, he said it made complete sense for a member to camp one and only one HNM that dropped something that they personally wanted. As long as they dedicated themself to that HNM, they deserved its drop. I'm sorry, but I personally cannot believe that philosophy and when I heard it my jaw dropped and hit the floor. Here I was going to 3-4 camps a day getting nothing while Cythe himself justified someone going to 3-4 Simurgh camps only and getting a pair of strider boots then never going to anything again. I'm sorry, but that is SELFISH and this shell is SUPPOSED to be about selflessness and helping everyone get better.

I tried to follow this philosophy. I cheered people on when they got items I felt they earned (see Moraine's Speed Belt). But when I started seeing random people getting random things, I got antsy. That's when I started bugging Cythe more to ensure that I wasn't going to get pushed so far back that the LS would run out of gil (lolrecession). While yes I said to put off my item just until Andreva got his manteel, I did NOT say "oh hey let's just forget about me completely". Quite the opposite, I started asking Cythe about it more often. It wasn't even a "It'll come soon" or a "After the manteel", I started getting silence. He just wouldn't reply. The last week I was in the shell I asked about it daily and not once did I get a reply. I got panicky to the point that I asked OTHER PEOPLE to send him tells just to make sure he was getting them. He ignored them too.

So basically, to the people who see only greed in this, I can't change your opinions and I have no desire to do so. It was never about the item. It was about getting ignored by the person who made all these awesome promises to me in the past. It was about a system that was tragically flawed by nature. It was about a shell growing and spinning wildly out of control while the leader was too busy with CoP gunning for sea to deal with it.

The final blow is that Cythe blamed everything on me. He said it was my fault. He blamed me for going to too many camps. He blamed me for stressing out while attempting to lead his linkshell in his absence. He blamed me for actually wanting some kind of tangible reward for all of the time and effort I put into the shell. Nothing was his fault, it was all me.

So that's that. You Nameless folks wanted to know why I quit. Hopefully you have a better understanding now. If all you see is "lolgreed" in what I said, it's probably for the best that we are no longer linkshell mates. Take care. I liked a lot of you and I've tried to keep in touch with some of you. Good luck with whatever your shell ends up doing and I hope you find some focus and work out the system. I'm done with this topic/anything TN related for good now.
 
Rappa said:
It was about a shell growing and spinning wildly out of control while the leader was too busy with CoP gunning for sea to deal with it.
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This is exactly what I'm talking about. Cythe did CoP 1 day per week ion Thursday nites from friggin' 8 EST PM - 1 EST AM. Read what you wrote there Rappa. Totally selfish and unreal on your part. You couldn't even give the guy a break of 5 per week to accomplish something he wanted.
 
that should read read: 5 hours, 1 day per week ...
 
meeze said:
I thought he wanted a HNM shell...
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And getting sea access doesn't help accomplish this?
 
Even sky access didn't seem to be required. As far as I can tell they never did sky.

It seems they had a flaw in how the shell was set up. If I wanted strider boots, all I would have to do is show up to simmy. I would never have to show up to anything else. While that sounds great to me, how do you think everyone else feels?

There were members in the shell who were not even there to kill HNMs, they were there socially.

Rappa's questions about about where he stood for items he had passed on for the shell went unanswered.

I don't see the selfishness. I missed it.
 
As far as Rappa and the items go, I understand your point Meeze. Cythe should've answered him. We are in agreement there.

On the other hand, you weren't in the shell. I swear on my sisters grave, every friggin week on Thursday, when we were ready to do CoP, some drama would arise and slow us down, because Cythe had to deal with it. It was totally unreal.

I cannot tell about the other people who were in there socially. I can tell you is my own personal situation. When Cythe asked me to join, I told him my priorities were getting my last Rank missions done for San d'Oria, getting CoP completed and working on my warrior. He had no problem with that. I also said, as you yourself know, if I was ever needed to help camp, I would be there in a heartbeat. If they had enough people there to camp whatever NM or HNM they were camping at the time, I was going to work on my own personal stuff. The first thing I would always ask when I logged on was if I was needed. Someone please try to say I didn't. I dare you to. There were times when they didn't have a whm online and I went to help. Other times they had enough.

Everyone pretty much in the shell is working on CoP right now. We were all in a static. Ara had set it up. Thing is, when it came down to Cythe's nite to static, there was always drama.

What the hell is so hard to comprehend about this fact?
 
I get the fact that this was a social shell to you, but what about the folks who were told this was a HNM LS geared at making the LS better as a unit. Then you see people not doing these things?

It is all good that Cythe said you don't have to do this or that, but in the eyes of others in the shell they see people slacking. I'm not saying you were slacking, from what you say you are in the right. But when someone believes they joined an LS with a common goal to camp NMs and get gear, seeing people that don't changes views of what is going on.

A linkshell is a fragile thing, the tone is set by the leader, and if the leader is trying to get everyone on the same page, but gives each of them a different sheet to read from things aren't going to work out.

Can't blame people like Rappa who joined to get items and camp NMs, can't blame you for wanting to hang out with friends and be social. It is what each of you were told to expect out of your time in the shell.
 
The best way for me to be able to answer this is, IF I had ever asked for anything to be given to me, I could totally see your point about persae me 'slacking'. To reiterate, I wasn't on any lists. I cannot honestly say if Elemmire is on any lists either. The people who were in there socially didn't ask for anything. We went to help when we were needed.

As far as the CoP issue goes, again even Rappa was in one of the CoP static's Ara had set up. Pretty much everyone in the shell who didn't already have sea was staticing. My point in all this is, everyone else, including leaders of the shell, had a worry free CoP static, except Cythe. These leaders couldn't even handle things for 5 hours, 1 day per week, which would eventually have bettered the shell as a whole with everyone getting sea access, without having to stress the poor guy out.

Also, all the older members, Rappa being one of them, KNEW it was a social shell converting eventually into a total HNM shell. Please refer to Jescer's post as a matter of fact. It was a social shell converting into HNM. Rappa's been in the shell a damn long time. He knew this.

Again, I feel recruiting Moraine into the shell was where everything came to a head. All I know is before he joined, everyone got along. Mebbe I'm missing some pieces to the puzzle here, but as a bystander seeing all the drama unfold, I truly feel it started getting hairy when Moraine joined.
 
Rappa said:
I think the biggest downfall for TheNameless, aside from its beautiful on paper horrible in execution idea of distributing items, is that no one really knew what the heck it was. When I came in I was lead to believe it was an HNMLS. This is also what Cythe would always refer to it as. Then I would privately ask him why Soandso is still in the LS and never does anything and he would say something along the lines of "I'm sure if we really needed them, they would come out". Okay, but if you're in an HNMLS you should want to fight HNMs.
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Doesn't look like Rappa knew when he got recruited. Maybe after a while he got the point, doesn't mean he enjoyed the fact not everyone was active in the shell.

If you joined a gym and were told people there were dedicated to getting in shape, but when you showed up to work out, you saw them socializing on the treadmill eating quarter pounders are you going to be happy there?

Doubt it, because you thought the members were on the same page as you.
 
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