WARs on HNMs

CmdrFly

CmdrFly

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Cmdr Fly
I know that some HNMs cannot be hit from behind for fear of Spike Flail or whatever the hell it's called. Out of curiousity, what do endgame WARs do? Just melee the bish and Rampage when possible? Or TA Steel Cyclone from the front of the mob, onto the tank?

I'd imagine the latter, primarily for the skillchain opportunities.

I presume it will vary largely based on what HNM in particular, but I don't really do endgame and am curious if Steel Cyclone is being put on the fat kids team out there too.
 
CmdrFly said:
I know that some HNMs cannot be hit from behind for fear of Spike Flail or whatever the hell it's called. Out of curiousity, what do endgame WARs do? Just melee the bish and Rampage when possible? Or TA Steel Cyclone from the front of the mob, onto the tank?

I'd imagine the latter, primarily for the skillchain opportunities.

I presume it will vary largely based on what HNM in particular, but I don't really do endgame and am curious if Steel Cyclone is being put on the fat kids team out there too.
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I know Steel Cyclone is much perfered if you don't have merits into axes. I know for gods mostly, unless you're lucky and you have Ridill, I have seen /thf WAR with Gaxe. So I would imagine it is the same for most HNMs.
 
WAR/NINs tank a lot of hnms actually. Your ws is whatever makes the sc needed for your mages to magic burst. Strats vary by the mob, but that's the general role of a war in hnms, setting up a MB and on some mobs tanking.
 
Is WAR/THF preferred over WAR/NIN on any non-wyrm HNM? SATA 300% Cyclones, especially Warcharged, can close some nasty Dark chains.

But seeing as Thundaga is Light-based, I'm guessing it's more popular to have a DRK close Light with Spinning Slash?
 
War/nin is (usually) pretty damn good at hitting your average HNM for good damage. I know Rampage commonly will interrupt meteor. The only case I can think of offhand where Gaxe is preferred over 2 axes is on aspid, which is because of the dark skillchain necessary. Even then, though, most war's seem to sub nin so that they dont get eaten alive when they kill tp mobs.
 
rampage is pretty good damage on fafnir if you're geared enough
 
Tymon said:
rampage is pretty good damage on fafnir if you're geared enough
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Not as good as the dmg the blms will do off your SC when you use something like Decimation instead. Don't get me wrong, war/nins tank faf cause they can do dmg, but you'll still be wsing to sc rather than to do dmg unless your ls just has a lot of melee there for some reason. Of course that'll just lead to faf wing spamming from all the TP he's getting.
 
Unfortunatly the game is designed to not let melee have fun. HNM gain TP and have Devastating Weaponskills. Typically you try to not feed it TP. Jobs like Thief/Sam, Sam/Thf are good for HNM solely because of thier SC properties and their low TP liability. 99% of the time SC will be light because T-ga III, and T IV any BLM has, merited or not. If you are a War/Thf, where are you gettign your TP? if off the HNM, you are TP'ing the HNM, if on outside mobs, you are a liability to the WHMs, and your spot could be filled with a job doing Damage to the HNM while you are gathering TP. As a War/Nin you can Tank, but you are basically a Nin/War sans the evasion, and Ninjitsu skill to help with Interupts, among other merits Nin has over War.

Its basically a problem just because anythign a war can do, any other job can do better. (On HNM)
 
I take it sleeping to 100% is not an option in most cases? Takes a lot longer than if you were to melee to 100%, but zero liability to anyone else in the alliance.
 
Phraust said:
Unfortunatly the game is designed to not let melee have fun. HNM gain TP and have Devastating Weaponskills. Typically you try to not feed it TP. Jobs like Thief/Sam, Sam/Thf are good for HNM solely because of thier SC properties and their low TP liability. 99% of the time SC will be light because T-ga III, and T IV any BLM has, merited or not. If you are a War/Thf, where are you gettign your TP? if off the HNM, you are TP'ing the HNM, if on outside mobs, you are a liability to the WHMs, and your spot could be filled with a job doing Damage to the HNM while you are gathering TP. As a War/Nin you can Tank, but you are basically a Nin/War sans the evasion, and Ninjitsu skill to help with Interupts, among other merits Nin has over War.

Its basically a problem just because anythign a war can do, any other job can do better. (On HNM)
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The biggest being the complete lack of subtle blow.
 
Only time I can see myself using great axe and /thf is on gods, since they die so fast. Only time Great Axe is really used is if its needed for skill chaining. For Fafhogg, we always use a THF/WAR and a WAR/NIN light SC of Decimation > Shark Bite. Thats pretty much our SC of choice, since the WARs can act as a tank, and the THF for treasure hunter and both jobs tend to TP at around the same rate. We've done two wars and a thf a couple times before (and was our fastest faf ever^^) and I was the extra war, so I just acted like I was in a melee cannon and spammed rampage, and voked every now and then. The hate is pretty substantial, and I ended up tanking without really trying to.

Don't really ever SC Tiamat or Jorm, just free nukes and smn dmg, especially since theres really no room for skill chainers, and the tanks don't need help with hate. Generally people don't come WAR to somthing like tiamat or jorm, and if they do, they sub nin for adds. So TA Steel Cyclone onto tanks is rare, at least from my experiences.

As for the subtle blow thing...meh. As long as you don't go higher than 3-4 people meleeing, you should be fine. Just make sure your melee know when to back off if the mob is gaining too much too fast.
 
Rappa said:
Not as good as the dmg the blms will do off your SC when you use something like Decimation instead. Don't get me wrong, war/nins tank faf cause they can do dmg, but you'll still be wsing to sc rather than to do dmg unless your ls just has a lot of melee there for some reason. Of course that'll just lead to faf wing spamming from all the TP he's getting.
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of course. i was basing my post on if you aren't a part of the sc.
 
CmdrFly said:
I take it sleeping to 100% is not an option in most cases? Takes a lot longer than if you were to melee to 100%, but zero liability to anyone else in the alliance.
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You might have to be outside of the alliance(for some mobs) and definitely be away from everyone so you don't get woken up, but that could probably work to build your TP on most things. It'd be a lot faster than going /sam, but with the extra cost of all of the sleeping potions. You'd probably want to wait to hear from an endgame war, but I'd imagine that sleeping for TP, while it would be costly to yourself, would be an ok tactic. I think the main reason it's not done is just the cost and how slow you'd build up TP compared to someone meleeing on the mob.
 
It all depends on HNM, really.

WAR is okay on HNM. You can do SA Steel Cyclone on Wyrms if you are smart and not a lot of people are giving TP. (flail is a tp move) Not very useful though, probably better off using another job for wyrms.

Fafnir/Nidhogg tank/sc, or just sit out as to not feed TP.

Aspid, Darkness sc

KB, kind of useless on KB.

Sky, w/e if they live long enough you can melee them for decent dmg.

Cerb, Khim, you can melee them just fine if you have a full alliance or proper job set up. Probably not good to melee if you can't handle tp moves often.

Sea, mostly melee everything except maybe hope and uh love/AV

It really all depends on the strat your ls is using, some accommodate for melee's others just use hordes of blms
 
Artem said:
WAR is okay on HNM. You can do SA Steel Cyclone on Wyrms if you are smart and not a lot of people are giving TP. (flail is a tp move) Not very useful though, probably better off using another job for wyrms.
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I thought Flail was an instant use thing? Forgot who it was (I think I know but not gonna toss out a name) that claimed Faf solo then CFHed and after a tons of Vokes/Stuns went off, Faf instant-flailed without getting any TP at all.
 
I thought it was instant too, soon as someone from behind grabbed hate it would go off. But I'm the last person that could confirm this.
 
Spike Flail is a TP move.

Edit: Youknowwho got it to flail by generating hate from behind after another ls would claim, iirc.
 
Flail is an instant TP move, no charge up time. Its also the only rear facing WS he has, so it seems like he uses it as soon as hate switches.
 
I've seen pics of mid flail sleeps > .>, and I think one stun. Looking for them now.
 
I'd buy that, It's damn near impossible but pretty much anything can be interrupted. I've interrupted mobs casting Stun just by meleeing.
 
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