Westboro Baptist Church elohel

[Gerry]

*sigh* At times I wish America would act how Germany did with Scientology and ban this crazy shit!

 

[Coustain]

Looking at this crazy shit makes me almost embarrased to associate with the name "Baptist". God is love.

And whether you are christian or not, anyone who has looked at the new testament of the Bible, knows that Jesus preached love thy neighbor and turn the other cheek. Which all have been over cliche'd to death.

This "congregation of blashpemers" (I will not call them christians) are not preaching anything remotely close to christian theology, they are taking snippets of the bible out of context and using them for further thier own bigoted beleif system.

 

[Halifirien]

This "congregation of blashpemers" (I will not call them christians) are not preaching anything remotely close to christian theology, they are taking snippets of the bible out of context and using them for further thier own bigoted beleif system.

In other words, they're like most Christians, picking and choosing the parts of their religion that they want to follow and ignoring all the rest. The problem is that they're being extremely rude about it.

 

[Taurothar]

In other words, they're like most Christians, picking and choosing the parts of their religion that they want to follow and ignoring all the rest. The problem is that they're being extremely rude about it.

While I don't support generalizations such as this, I'll have to agree. The Christian churches as a whole are selectively "Christian". Anyone who reads the bible as law and takes it literal has absolutely no knowledge of their religion. I am agnostic by principle, but I am in love with the true Christian message when you remove all the bullshit. Take away all the organization, take away the metaphor that Jesus is actually the son of god, take away all the stories of damnation, and you're left with a beautiful philosophy. I'm sure that if Jesus saw what his stories and lessons were turned into, he would be ashamed to have propagated it all in the first place.

I don't mean to turn this into a religious debate thread that I'll end up splitting over to the RSI forum, so let's not get that started here. If you want to debate religion, quote me and start a thread in Reality Sinks In...

 

[Halifirien]

I try to avoid generalizations like that, but I'm also not one to let it slide when people say the schmucks at Westboro aren't Christians. They're not Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist or atheist, y'know? They're very explicitly Christian, drawing their own conclusions from the Bible about their relationship with Jesus and what they're supposed to do about it. It's extremist and annoying, but their religion is certainly firmly labeled as Christian. They'd have fit right in at the congregation listening to Johnathan Edwards delivering "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God."

I've never encountered one of the Westboro people, but I've certainly met plenty of assholes who justify their hatred of gay people with the stuff they've read in the Bible -- both Old and New Testaments. The only thing making Westboro special is that they'll go out and act on it by protesting and not giving a fuck what people think about them.

Their beliefs aren't much different than a lot of the churches I grew up in.

 

[Tristam Green]

Lets turn Boondock Saintish, Aly.

That's what AK-47s, C4, and other high grade weaponry are for.:evilsmile:

Let's put the gun in your hands then, and see if you would actually pull the trigger.

Or just put them all in a dome and blow it up with a bomb so we can have a new canyon.

Or the detonator.

I highly doubt that any single one of you would dare have the nads to attempt such a thing.

Multifold reasons:

1) You know better, and are raised better. Chances are you would never be able to live with yourselves knowing you had taken another human's life, and put their own judgement into your hands.

2) Martyrdom is the number one way to erase any shred of wrongdoing from a person's life.

You're all above this kind of thought process.

 

[Tymon]

People who would say "these people aren't christians" may have their heart in the right place but it's just not true, one could compare this analogy to those saying that the extremists killing our troops in the middle east aren't muslims.

The only thing that separates them from normal christians of the baptist denomination is that they take a VERY extremist view on what they read from the bible and decide they'll be public nuisances (nuisance is an understatement)


Really, it's the same way with all christian denominations. Each one is just taking the bible and interpreting it a certain way. If someone took it for every word 100% literally they would be more extreme than WBC and probably very backwards people.

Not trying to piss off the baptists or anything but from my experience they're pretty angry people, in the south especially. Personally, I'm of the reformed presbyterian denomination, and the baptists around here will kick you out of their churches just for being not of their specific beliefs.

My uncle, in example, was getting a doctorate at a baptist college. He was finished with his classes and ready to accept his PhD, but changed his faith at that time and for some reason informed them of this. They denied him his PhD. This is illegal and he could have sued them over it but he decided to let it slide (I think he should have sued them for every penny of his tuition and more)

No hate towards the baptists again, as most of the average congregation are nice people but the people that are organizing a lot of these massive churches in the south are pretty extreme. Maybe not as extreme as WBC, but we should be happy they aren't as loud.

 

[Zhaoyun]

Let's put the gun in your hands then, and see if you would actually pull the trigger.



Or the detonator.

I highly doubt that any single one of you would dare have the nads to attempt such a thing.

Multifold reasons:

1) You know better, and are raised better. Chances are you would never be able to live with yourselves knowing you had taken another human's life, and put their own judgement into your hands.

2) Martyrdom is the number one way to erase any shred of wrongdoing from a person's life.

You're all above this kind of thought process.

Why so serious?

 

[Sirjarvis]

Let's put the gun in your hands then, and see if you would actually pull the trigger.



Or the detonator.

I highly doubt that any single one of you would dare have the nads to attempt such a thing.

Multifold reasons:

1) You know better, and are raised better. Chances are you would never be able to live with yourselves knowing you had taken another human's life, and put their own judgement into your hands.

2) Martyrdom is the number one way to erase any shred of wrongdoing from a person's life.

You're all above this kind of thought process.

 

[Realia]

Let's put the gun in your hands then, and see if you would actually pull the trigger.



Or the detonator.

I highly doubt that any single one of you would dare have the nads to attempt such a thing.

Multifold reasons:

1) You know better, and are raised better. Chances are you would never be able to live with yourselves knowing you had taken another human's life, and put their own judgement into your hands.

2) Martyrdom is the number one way to erase any shred of wrongdoing from a person's life.

You're all above this kind of thought process.

Sarcasm doesn't travel well over the internet. :| And no one got my reference, it's from The Simpson's Movie, for those wondering.

 

[Tristam Green]

Sarcasm doesn't travel well over the internet. :| And no one got my reference, it's from The Simpson's Movie, for those wondering.

No, I got the reference. If you were using sarcasm, I didn't get it.

Believe me, I didn't have a problem with anyone, just with what was being said, since I do know you're all above that kind of thinking.

 

[Zhaoyun]

You never answered my question Tristam.

 

[Tristam Green]

Why so serious?

You never answered my question Tristam.

Were you being serious with that question? I thought it was just more "Dark Knight" Joker fandom.

Why serious? Because wishing death upon anyone, especially when it would generate *some* sympathy for the persons, and by association, their cause (and potentially rally more unsavory people to their cause), I find it to be a serious situation.

"Thou shalt not kill" is not just one of the Ten Commandments or just a law of all the Abrahamic traditions, it's a social moré in every major society on earth.

Sorry if I sound like a stick in the mud.

 

[Halifirien]

"Thou shalt not kill" is not just one of the Ten Commandments or just a law of all the Abrahamic traditions, it's a social moré in every major society on earth.

That's why I shake my head in disbelief when people make statements about atheists having a lack of morals because they weren't handed down by a supernatural being. It's a feedback loop you really have to admire: societies create (or adopt) gods to reinforce their own values, and then use the gods to argue for the importance of the values and keep the ball rolling.

That's also why I chuckle at Taurothar's statement about liking Christianity's basic message. The basic message of Christianity (as a religion) is "There is one god, and Jesus is his son who died for the sins of mankind. To achieve salvation, you must embrace Jesus." It hardly sounds like something an agnostic would embrace.

Now, you can strip most of the messages of Jesus down to "Treat others as you'd like to be treated," but that's hardly unique to Christianity. I wouldn't give Jesus the credit for developing that philosophy.

 

[Zhaoyun]

Were you being serious with that question? I thought it was just more "Dark Knight" Joker fandom.

Why serious? Because wishing death upon anyone, especially when it would generate *some* sympathy for the persons, and by association, their cause (and potentially rally more unsavory people to their cause), I find it to be a serious situation.

"Thou shalt not kill" is not just one of the Ten Commandments or just a law of all the Abrahamic traditions, it's a social moré in every major society on earth.

Sorry if I sound like a stick in the mud.

It was sarcasm, but that will suffice.

 

[Taurothar]

That's why I shake my head in disbelief when people make statements about atheists having a lack of morals because they weren't handed down by a supernatural being. It's a feedback loop you really have to admire: societies create (or adopt) gods to reinforce their own values, and then use the gods to argue for the importance of the values and keep the ball rolling.

That's also why I chuckle at Taurothar's statement about liking Christianity's basic message. The basic message of Christianity (as a religion) is "There is one god, and Jesus is his son who died for the sins of mankind. To achieve salvation, you must embrace Jesus." It hardly sounds like something an agnostic would embrace.

Now, you can strip most of the messages of Jesus down to "Treat others as you'd like to be treated," but that's hardly unique to Christianity. I wouldn't give Jesus the credit for developing that philosophy.

Hali, you misread my meaning entirely. I don't believe what you said to be the true message of Jesus the person. What you said is the message of organized Christianity. I embrace Jesus as a wise philosopher the same way I embrace Socrates or Confucius. The core meaning I was going for was that if you are good and just as a rule, then you will have lived a good life. I apologize for being vague, I'm avoiding the serious debate that's bound to pop up here.

 

[Tristam Green]

Same here, I merely felt I had to address the calls for lynching these people.

 

[Halifirien]

I figured you were going more for the philosophy than the organized religion -- which is why I tossed in the "(as a religion)" to show I recognized the difference -- but again I don't believe the philosophy is unique to Jesus. I also don't believe being a good person means you'll have a good life, but that's an argument for later.

 

[Realia]

No, I got the reference. If you were using sarcasm, I didn't get it.

Believe me, I didn't have a problem with anyone, just with what was being said, since I do know you're all above that kind of thinking.

If you read my post at all it basically said that we should ignore these types of people and not give into the hate and rage they preach about. It just gives them more ammo. The worst thing I would like to do to them would be counter-picket them with signs of Gods love. Corny, but true.

 

[Pompidou]

The Bible as we know it was a collection of texts from ancient times, and it was amassed from a pool of literature even larger. It wasn't selected overnight. Lots of texts, some from authors who had other works selected for inclusion, were denied. Parts were added and dropped over hundreds of years. Maybe parts aught be dropped now? If God could change his mind a few dozen times 1500 years ago or so, surely he's not entirely set in stone now?Contradictions and bronze age justice aren't doing any good for the modern age, and only serve to inspire groups like these.

The pope needs to sit down and ask himself: Does God still believe this? And if he decides no, drop the passage. Should adulterers be stoned? If the uppercrust of Christian faith agree not, then remove the passage. The Bible is intended to educate the masses on everything a Christian aught believe. If this is the case, then all opportunities for cherrypicking between opposing statements aught be rectified. If a Christian aught not believe a passage, it shouldn't be included.